@Riot Why was Rylai nerfed as a whole if its passive was the problem?

CatSith·Dec 28, 2016·9 votes·522 views

I don't understand why it had to lose 100 health and 25 AP because its passive allowed mages to stick to their target too well.

22 Comments

IcyPepperDec 28, 201610 votes

... Okay, I have to ask, if you care about Rylai's nerf then why didn't you read about Rylai's nerf? Because they spelled it out.

Why should Riot bother to answer your question if you can't bother to read what they've already said about it? It's spelled out in the patch notes, for heaven's sake.

You know what, fuck it. I'll just quote Rito

Rylai’s has become a go-to item for ~~AP bruisers utility mages AP assassins~~ every mage. There’s nothing wrong with popular items, but when that item gives survivability and utility, it artificially decreases class variance, making characters more similar in their capabilities. We want Rylai’s to be purchased for its repeatable slow, not because it’s an optimal stat-stick. While that means toning its health and AP down to make it less generically appealing to mages, we also want the slow to be less attractive to mages who can’t reapply it consistently. We know this shift affects some champions more heavily than others, but we’d rather help those champs become less reliant on Rylai’s with future changes than tiptoe around the problems with Rylai’s itself.

There you go, lazy bones. Now you understand?

Ulquiorra995Dec 28, 20162 votes

There’s nothing wrong with popular items, but when that item gives survivability and utility, it artificially decreases class variance, making characters more similar in their capabilities.

Sorry, but this is plain bullshit. You know what else gives survivability and utility? item 3022 And yet I don't see that item "artificially decreasing class variance" amongst ADC despite them being able to easily and consistently apply the slow (which is also 50% stronger than Rylai's slow, mind you) from safe range. Mallet gives survivability and utility, but it also has subpar offensive stats. That's why it's a niche item; if they were suddenly to lower its HP and give it 70 AD I assure you every ADC would be buying it. That's why old Rylai's was a niche item despite having both better stats and better slow than the current version. The one and only problem with Rylai's was that it was giving 100 AP. Not any of that crap Riot tried to feed us in the above quote.

IcyPepperDec 28, 20163 votes

Is every ADC buying it? How many ADC's are buying it as a part of their meta build?

I feel like you missed the whole "every mage" part in the beginning.

Ulquiorra995Dec 29, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Is every ADC buying it? How many ADC's are buying it as a part of their meta build?

Exactly. It provides sub-par offensive stats and it isn't worth buying in most cases despite offering durability and utility. You know, being a niche item and all.

I feel like you missed the whole "every mage" part in the beginning.

And I feel like you missed the point of my entire post. Quote you used says that problem with Rylai's was that it offers both utility and durability. And yet has become go-to item on every mage solely because it got turned into a 100 AP item - and AP ain't exactly a durability stat. Pre-MYMU Rylai's was better than current one in every way and yet it still was a niche item (aka not being bought by every mage which you think I missed) because it was in the same boat as Mallet: high HP, high slow, low AP.

Seriously, you nerf AP over the board and then bump up a strong utility item into a highest-AP category. No fucking shit it's going to become core on everyone. And that quote is classic Riot: they see everything except the actual problem as a problem.

IcyPepperDec 29, 20161 votes

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3zni9hKaF1r8sxqvo2_1280.jpg

You're right, I did miss your point. And it was a mighty fine one too now that you've spelled it out for me.

I certainly can't argue with that, since there's nothing to dispute.

CatSithDec 29, 20161 votes

Lol I'm Lazy because you believe everything riot say is right? My opinion is nerfing the stats because the item allowed "regular mages" utilized its passive too well is bonkers. They over nerfed it without testing if nerfing just the slow would decrease its popularity.

They have done this plenty of time before.

Handy Sandy Dec 28, 20162 votes

Even without it's passive 100 AP and a bunch of health makes mages do a lot of damage while being pretty tanky.

CatSithDec 28, 20162 votes

item 3027 ?

ChaddyFantomeDec 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

?

And look how much effort you have to go to just to get RoA which is literally a stat stick. Why is the slowing disruption item allowed in any capacity to have even close to the same stat line?

CatSithDec 29, 20161 votes

It didn't have the same stat line....

ChaddyFantomeDec 29, 20162 votes

and you can't read.

Handy Sandy Dec 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

?

item 3027 + item 3116 = 800 hp on "squishy" Velkoz

Also item 3027 isn't really built that much on most mages, it's more of an AP bruiser item for champs like cassiopeia, swain, ryze, etc.

Ulquiorra995Dec 28, 20161 votes

That was exactly the problem. You didn't see every mage building it before mage update when it had higher HP and sub-par AP. It was in line with Frozen Mallet - you sacrifice damage for some bulk and slow. And then they went up and decided it should have the highest amount of flat AP an item can provide. No sh*t everyone started building it.

Edge of DaybreakDec 28, 20162 votes

The stats were also a part of the problem. Giving a lot of damage and health was good even in cases where you didnt care about the slow. The slow was also a problem as well.

CatSithDec 28, 20161 votes

lol The 40% slow was the only problem . ROA gives health, mana and 100 ap, The stats is not the problem.

TequilaZombieDec 28, 20161 votes

The stats are the problem when they are top tier AND tied to what is supposed to be a niche item.

Rylais is all about the slow with some tankyness. You gut the slow, you impact it's intended users much more than the non-intended users (aka abusers). Morde, Vlad, and Singed all come to mind when talking about tunning Rylais due to how reliant they are on the item.

The item is not balanced around helping a Viktor 100-0 a squishy, or helping a Xerath survive when a Xin Zhao jumps on his face. This specific item is balanced around making Morde able to stick to a target, Vlad be able to use his empowered Q, and giving Singed some other utility besides flipping one person on the enemy team and becoming a fat body blocker (or other similar champions to do their thing).

ChaddyFantomeDec 28, 20162 votes

Because it's passive wasn't the problem. the stats were.

Why was my Tanky AP bruiser disruption item buffed to have retarded amounts of AP and stats ASWELL as the passive?? it was bonkers!

Rylais was beyond cost effective on the stats alone, when the slow was the entire reason you ever bought ti before ti was changed around the mage update.

DunkinNoobsDec 28, 20161 votes

The item was way too common for Riot's tastes, so they nerfed all aspects of it while lowering the cost so it would be more of a niche item.

Irelia BotDec 28, 20161 votes

would have rather seen it changed to 80 AP and 500 health.

ElysMustacheDec 28, 20161 votes

I did a Liandrys/Rylais rush on Kog'maw yesterday, and happend to compare my HP to my Lucian's HP. I had 900 more than him at that point in the game (2300 to 1400).

I like the change. I can get these two items faster.

AhristocatsDec 28, 20161 votes

what i don't understand is why they nerfed the passive that wasn't a problem

the problem was 100 AP, they would have reduced it to 60 and no mages would abuse it everytime as a stat stick item

Titanium70Dec 29, 20161 votes

Well - it's a Riot problem. they can't fix for some reason.

They want utility Items (such as Rylais) to be choice for you if you need some of said utility instead of DMG.

However... for some reason... THERES NEARLY NO UTILITY-LESS PATH LEFT! item 3089 item 3285 item 3135 - great and than? OFC everyone who doesnt want utility picks the next great AP-Stick... which is... item 3116 an utility Item... GG!

I like the idea of getting the one utility item your team needs instead of going raw DMG - If there's nothing like a raw DMG build.. you have no choice.

Build choices is a gimmick Riot is a little obssesed with. The point they seem to not understand is - your CHAMPION is the choice you make - Items dont change a Champ, they only support them, and usually - there never is a choice - just most effective item and a less effective item.

A Champ i need of item 3152 active wont suddenly switch to item 3030 because of all the mana he pays for. A champion in need of mana (arch= wont switch from to .

You always want to take the most effective items for your Champions - two items being exactly equal to each other while no flat out bought both offering you a REAL choice might exist in an ideal world... but that wont happen in game of league. At least not in the Shop, BUT in Champselect.