If so, I have no words. I won't even talk about her dmg, I just cannot fathom that she can jump 69 times just because she picked up her dagger. There's no way you escape her and we've all seen the compilations of her 1v9 easily. Normally, I like watching compilations of champs, but I just can't watch hers. It looks fucking disgusting her jumping 15 times because "hoy goys, it tuks skellz". Just obnoxious.
Leo102429 votesher damage is pretty insane but i will admit, after playing katarina a few, even though it looks like she's just spamming, holy shit is it hard to pull off the 1v3 plays, there's so much more than just spamming like old katarina, new kat actually outplays people and it's pretty cool, if anything i can't stand seeing yasuo in montages because "outplaying" with him isn't that hard, i've 1v3d with both champs but katarina is significantly harder
rengar vore11 votesholy shit is it hard to pull off the 1v3 plays
ugh i once tried to 1v5 like before the rework and i got fisted so hard that the fist came out of my mouth xd
AninLegions7772 votesOutplays with Yas aren't hard but Kata jumping on daggers every second and dealing a ton of AOE damage is considered an outplay to you? You are confused.
Edit: If outplaying with him wasn't so hard, why did you go 3/8/3 and 6/12/11 in your last 2 normal games? You obviously have no idea about this champ.
Catastrop3 votesKata jumping on daggers every second and dealing a ton of AOE damage is considered an outplay to you?
This. E resets broke her and quite frankly, lowered her overall skillfloor instead of raising it.
Anyone who says Kat is even remotely balanced, doesn't actually play Katarina.
AninLegions7771 votesYup. It used to be her E was an engage or disengage and she depended on her passive for escapes. Now it's just easier than before.
Unvictus1 votesEasier than before? She still has to get a reset to get out, unless she placed her w dagger as an escape, but if that's the case it's a lot less likely that she killed her target. Old kat could just ward hop after she got a reset without taking into consideration her surroundings and it took no foresight. She could be wherever she wanted on the map without taking risks cause as long as she had a ward she always had something to shunpo to. That's not the case anymore. But I guess planning out your moves ahead of time and setting yourself up correctly and outplaying your opponent means "it's easier than before".
Leo10243 votesOutplays with Yas aren't hard but Kata jumping on daggers every second and dealing a ton of AOE damage is considered an outplay to you? You are confused.
Edit: If outplaying with him wasn't so hard, why did you go 3/8/3 and 6/12/11 in your last 2 normal games? You obviously have no idea about this champ.
with katarina? because i don't play her often and it's not easy, you've obviously never played her if you think outplaying with her is easy, she's reworked like ryze, she's not a facemash = pentakill champ anymore she's an actual, high skill champion that has so much outplay potential
also i don't play yas, at all, which goes to show how easy it is to outplay with him, i was like 2/4 with yas that game against a level 6 yasuo, fed katarina, fed ez, and nautilus came and it was just spamming abilities, there was 0 skill needed for the "outplay", where i just kept dashing on minions only stopping to Q and ult and then they're all dead, ezpz
Unvictus1 votesYea I would call me placing myself correctly onto an enemy champ with my E (since you can pick what side of the target to blink to) so that when I Q W the Q bounces in a direction that cuts off my opponents assumed escape route an outplay. That way when w dagger lands and I pick it up I can then e to the q dagger if the enemy champ did indeed go that direction. She requires an immense amount of setup and foresight into her combos. She can't burst someone in 0.5 seconds like she could before unless very fed. Because of her widened burst window and highly telegraphed movements (aim your skill shots at daggers) she really is quite vulnerable against opponents with half a brain. Not to mention exhaust wrecks kat probably more than any other champ in the game. All she brings to the table is damage, she has no cc, utility, nothing. If you stop or lessen her ability to deal damage then she's and easy kill in a fight. And if you're too dumb to just sit and stand on daggers then that's your own fault.
AninLegions7771 votesYou can talk about combos all you want. You can talk about how you zoned the enemy etc but when you have a point a click mobility spell that you can use 3 times in a short window while dealing a lot of damage, it becomes less impressing. They widened the burst window but she does more damage overall. Back then it was "stop Kata's ulti and it's gg" but now stop her ulti and she can still kill you with her daggers. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy they shifted dependency largely from her ult but the damage she gets from her passive is incredibly disgusting. Highly telegraphed movements cos you know when she'll jump right? Or you don't know she get a reset?
she really is quite vulnerable against opponents with half a brain.
Which explains why she's a threat in high elo? There's a reason she's banned a lot now. There's really no way to counter her damage or stop her mobility and after Hextech Gunblade, it's gg for whatever lane she ganks.
And if you're too dumb to just sit and stand on daggers then that's your own fault.
Guess the moment you see a dagger, you run. People miles better than you are having a hard time so gtfoh with your gold elo experience.
Unvictus1 votesHigh Elo or not, soloq is soloq. Disorganized play is always gonna have snowballling. Exhaust kills kat so hard. If the enemy team takes exhaust on their mid laner and support she will never do damage in a team fight cause one of them will have exhaust up almost all the time. Her ult is still easily shut down by cc and you just focus her once she's exhausted or CC'd. That weakness still exists. All she brings is damage, you seem to forget that. Shut her down and she's useless. She takes longer to do her damage which means she vulnerable for longer. Cc her or exhaust her. It's pretty simple. If you can't see the counterplay here than you're blind
How mature of you to personally attack me and my elo. Must help you sleep at night. Unless you want to have a civil conversation you gtfo. Take your petty insults and childish attitude elsewhere.
AninLegions7771 votesExhaust kills Yasuo hard. Exhaust kills Zed hard. Exhaust kills kata hard. Exhaust kills Talon hard. Exhaust fcking reduces ALL damage output (except true damage) by 40%. That's almost half. It shuts down ANY assassin. Turns their damage into baby food. You just can't comprehend that and think only Kata is affected.
All she brings is damage
Add her to the list of assassins that do same. Nothing special to her.
Shut her down and she's useless
Same goes for any Assassin. Shaco, Kha'Zix, Talon, Rengo, Yasuo, etc.
If you can't see the counterplay here than you're blind
The topic wasn't about counterplay but about outplay potential. You haven't raised a relevant point showing she has a harder time outplaying when compared to Yasuo.
How mature of you to personally attack me and my elo. Must help you sleep at night. Unless you want to have a civil conversation you gtfo. Take your petty insults and childish attitude elsewhere.
If you don't want to be treated as a child, then stop acting like one. You are making blanket statements for tiers you haven't achieved yet. Go to Youtube and watch Kata montages. Majority of then are higher elo than you. Same as their opponents. If Diamond+ still get destroyed by Kata even when they know everything you mentioned, then it shows the champ has problems. Don't reply immediately. Sit down a while. Read this. And TRY to respond with an atom of sense at least.
Unvictus2 votesNowhere in my post did I say that only kat was effected by exhaust. Don't put words in my mouth. Like I said kat only brings damage. Other assassins do bring other things and have other things other than just damage. Other assassins have some form of cc or utility. Yasuo: knock up and wind wall. Zed: slow on shadow E and the ability to dodge targeted skills with ult. Shaco: fear, same thing as zed with ult. Kha: huge slow on isolated W and invis on ult. Rengar: where do I begin? Invis on ult, slow or root on e, cc remove on enhanced w. Talon: slow on W and invis on ult. Ekko: slow on q, stun on w. Need I go on? All of these plus other assassins bring some sort of cc or utility that keep them relavent when behind outside of just doing damage. Legit ALL kat has is damage, she provides nothing else to the team. So yes other champs are shut down by exhaust, but I would argue it hurts kat more than it does some others.
I gave you a perfect example of how kat can outplay her opponents with her q placement. But of course you just disregarded it and said "you can talk about zoning all you want and said she's easy compared to yasuo" cause yasuo doesn't have a point and click mobility skill either. How naive of me. Must be a yasuo main. Since when did yasuo become the standard for champion balance. So I guess if the champ isn't as "hard as yasuo" then they have to be nerfed? Seems logical. Let me go look up some high elo yasuo players wrecking everyone. It's the same thing, it's a montage, of course they're gonna show flashy plays. You can do this with literally ANY champ. A youtube montage isn't gonna show a yasuo or kat player derping and failing hard. What a dumb argument. Oh there are kat montages on YouTube, must be OP. Stop acting like yasuo is so much harder than kat. You must not come to the boards often, cause last time I checked there's a nerf yasuo thread on the front page on the daily. The community as a whole accross all elos hate playing against yasuo way more. Yasuo has been out for a long time now, and a lot of people have a good grasp on how to play against him. "kat wrecks high elo even when they know everything you mentioned" cause yasuo doesn't wreck high elo even tho he's been out for a long time and people know how to play against him?
Just cause my opinion doesn't line up with yours doesn't qualify my behavior and opinion as being childish. You on the other hand, launching personal attacks isn't welcome. If you want to have a disccussion about balance then keep insults out of it. It accomplishes nothing, except for showing your true colors.
SpecterVonBaren22 votesAt least she's not the crap shoot she was before. Also, remember that she's the lowest utility champion in the game. All she does is damage, she has no cc, she has no utility. If all you have is a hammer then you better be damn good at hitting nails.
Segius3 votesFInnaly some reason
SpookyNeedle13 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Katarina All these stats say reasonably balanced, but I'll keep looking for one that doesnt Op.gg says very close to 50% winrate Lolking says 48%
WinTheWarOnPants2 votespeople are still figuring her out, i used to play a ton of kat and i still can't figure out how to use her. If you know how to play her though she is honestly broken IMO(i'm not saying that lightly). Notice that she has a 50% ban rate?
Sp33d Zer04 votesAren't most champions that you learn how to play broken?
Zerenza2 votesShe's one of those champions that's annoying not broken(except in the right hands), so people just don't want to deal with her, similar to Fizz, Zed and Yasuo they just don't want to deal with it half the time lol
The Taco Kat1 votesAzir had a 46% when he was extremely broken. Win rate means nothing.
aqours fanboy8 votessome tips for ya.
She actually cannot jump 15 times so quickly as you so bitch about, unless she is throwing and picking up daggers very efficiently, which takes alot of skill, and since I doubt you played new Kat, you really have no right to say it doesn't.
EDIT: While this is the real only counterplay to Kat at the time, I will admit the fact her AD ratios on her skills are so high are just pure foolishness and either need to disappear or be nerfed tremendously.
Zerenza2 votesYeah even with the resets on her passive if i get 3 assists and kills in a team fight i'm only shunpoing like 8-10 times cause i am NOT good enough to shunpo the full 4 times per reset.
Dessem1 votesWait, how are you shunpo'ing four times per reset? You get two daggers and a shunpo for every takedown, meaning you can jump thrice. Am I missing something? What am I missing?! D:
sir d wreck4 votesI'd also argue that Kat cannnot 1v9 as the OP says because 4 people are on her team.
Report for Wuju3 votescannnnot
Perfection 
TheHappyReaperz7 votesSeems pretty balnced. A mobile, AOE assassin, with no escapes, that requires foresight to accomplish anything major.
AninLegions7771 voteswith no escapes
:')
LBmyBB6 votesThats who katarina is. She's always been the reset queen who totally demolishes a team
DemainaNyx5 votesShe's much harder now than she used to be. I had a one for all game of old Kat vs Shaco where my top laner and I were being pushed in constantly and finally the entire enemy team came top to take our tower. I literally just kept pressing buttons and got a Quadra. Now, if you go in without a dagger already there, you're waiting out cooldowns to escape. Yeah, if she Q's forward, she can EW and then E away without really taking damage but that's only if you stand near that dagger. She has to plan a lot more cause just doing ER probably isn't going to kill anyone since most of her damage is from her picking up a dagger.
Sp33d Zer03 votesI will definitely say she is much, much harder to be as successful as old Kat with.
You see high mechanical skill players playing her (which, let's be fair, exist in all elo's) and doing amazing things, and average players getting kind of stomped. I hate playing against her because usually only the players who are good with her pick her, but I feel the same way about Khazix, Draven, Zyra, Riven, etc.
ModCaptainMårvelous3 votesThe funny thing is it does actually take skill.
More importantly, all Kat brings to the table is damage. Comparative to many other mid-lane picks such as Syndra, Orianna, Viktor, etc? They all bring more stuff. Utility. Poke. Range. Neigh-uninterruptable damage. Kat, on the other hand, only brings damage. Damage that can easily be interrupted because she got stunned and hammered down during ult.
Are2 votesI can't say anything for when she's ahead, but she's difficult to play. Have you tried playing her?
Her dagger always lands 350 units behind the first unit hit at the angle which she threw it. You can use this to position yourself around her daggers. If she throws a dagger straight at you, walk towards her.
PokladnicaZla2 votesThan again,difficulty should never justify a champions health.
Verdade3 votessay what? She's really easy to counterplay now
PokladnicaZla1 votessay what? She's really easy to counterplay now
I mostly played bot,so I can't speak for lanning against her,but playing mid-late game,when a good Kata 3-6 instantly and switches places costantly it's not really easy to hit her with anything.
Verdade2 votesYou just don't stand in line behind minions or in minions. This way she has no way to proc her beyblade, so she gets REALLY limited options. Basically, all you do is avoid daggers, both landed and in-air. Once you do that she can only E->R which isn't very threatening when you are at full hp.
If she's chasing you and throws Q, don't run in straight line or else it will land on you and fk you up. It's much better to take 2 more autos than beyblade
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesYeah so easy to counterplay that whenever she is picked in CS/LCS she just facerolls. Plz-
Unvictus1 votesIf she facerolls every game in LCS then why doesn't she have 100% pick ban? Why don't teams first pick her? Oh I know! Cause organized teams know how to shut her down and if a team happens to draft a low cc team then their opponents will pick kat later in the draft and then of course she will do well if the enemies have little to no cc. That's simply just good strategy. If a team was to first pick/ blind pick her then the enemy team would just respond with a comp stacked with hard cc. She has weaknesses and counterplay, but cryabaies like you refuse to seee it. Not to mention she's only been played less than 10 times in LCS so far and about half of those instances she didn't even do that well. Bjergson picked her in the first week of the NA LCS and he got trashed on and went like 2/7 or something like that.
Are2 votesA champion who is more difficult to play is about to also make more flashier plays and outplays. It's a double edged sword because you can also counter play Kat as her damage is mainly in her passive unless she gets horribly fed. Learn how to walk around daggers.
PokladnicaZla1 votesA champion who is more difficult to play is about to also make more flashier plays and outplays. It's a double edged sword because you can also counter play Kat as her damage is mainly in her passive unless she gets horribly fed. Learn how to walk around daggers.
People seem to miss my point. I don't disagree with the fact the high-skill champions shouldn't have more tools in their kit or be useful in more situations. I disagree on the matter that when people claim a champion should stay OP just because it's hard to play.
This is in general.IMO
Unvictus1 votesPeople aren't missing the point.. people aren't trying to justify her being op, we're trying to explain how to play against her cause a lot of people don't know how to. And once you do she's definitely not op. There's a difference between a champ being op and the players playing against the champ not knowing wtf they're doing and then going on the boards and crying. And then refusing to listen to any logic or advice about how to play against the champ and insist they're op anyway.
PokladnicaZla1 votesGiving insight on how to play against an OP champion doesn't fix the champion.
It's useful,but if the champion is really OP,counterplay doesn't help much.
Unvictus1 votesWhat I'm saying is if you know how to play against her she ISN'T op. The only reason people think so is because they don't know how to play her. Guess you didn't read my post
THE RlVER KlNG1 votesThe main thing that bothers me is that her dagger hitboxes are fucking enormous and there is no way to see them. I've played mid and clearly sidestepped when she blinks onto one but I still get hit and chunked for a third of my health.
MissingKayo5 votesIf I remember correctly, doesn't the dagger circle only show where she can hit it for her passive? The passive is an entirely different size hitbox radiating out from herself.
Sinlaire3 votescorrect. the dagger circles just show where katarina has to be in range of to activate her passive.
once Kat collects the dagger the passive blade flourish radiates out from Kat herself.
THE RlVER KlNG1 votesThat tells me nothing. Great, I can see where she can pick it up but I cannot see how far away I have to be to not get hit.....neither of you answered the problem at hand.
AninLegions7771 votesThe hitbox just indicates where Kata can shunpo to. It actually has a 340 unit Radius.
