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R.I.P. Riven and Nidalee

Wînter Fox··5 votes·803 views

These two champions have been through it all. The community's absolute love and the community's vitriolic hate; Riot's band-aid buffs and Riot's misplaced nerfs; all of which came and went, patch after patch, just as reliably as the rising and falling tides of an ocean. Unfortunately, not even the strongest rock can withstand the eventual erosion. As we look upon these two champions with their abysmal 40-45% winrates, in the twilight of their time as viable champions, let's think back to how they were rather than how they are now. The good times. The times when one could admit they played these champions without being burned at the stake. The times when Riven was a Fighter, and Nidalee was a Mage- the way it should have remained.

Rest in peace, Riven and Nidalee. May your mains be able to take your sword and spear skills along with them...perhaps to Fiora or Xin Zhao- then again the community hates them too so who knows how long that will last.

Riven ---- 9/14/2011 - 5/9/2015 _Even in the end, despite her blade, her spirit was never broken _

Nidalee ---- 12/17/2009 - 3/16/2015 She fought fiercely all these years, but even she only had nine lives

13 Comments

Mr Broken Wings4 votes

Meh, at this point I simply dont care anymore if riven is useless or not. Feeding with a champ that I like is better then playing some boring shit like rammus or malphite that got overbuffed and winning by simply picking this champs and brainafking.

Raoul3 votes

If Riven would actually get nerfed to death, I would digitalise myself just to do Riverdance on her grave!

The Sword Saint6 votes

Here you observe part of the problem. There's so much hatred of both champs, to meme levels where people don't even know why it's cool to hate but they do, that neither of those champs can be buffed or nerfed without massive uproar from the haters and from the oppressed mains who have to deal with the haters. Both camps are obnoxious and feed into each other.

It's like the old joke, 'haha delete teemo, satan op' except people aren't able to step back and realize that it's not a joke for the riven/nidalee haters as well as others such as yasuo/zed/leesin. These people would honestly be happy to have every champ that beats them in a flashy looking way nerfed to a 10% winrate.

Raoul1 votes

I know pretty well why I hate her. A champion like Riven, who combines High mobility, high damage, a low CD Shield that scales with AD, an AoE Stun and that all with an execution Ultimate which also gives her an insane AD steroid, which then again makes her other abilities even more powerful too, is just insane. Now combine that with the fact that she has no ressources at all and how insane she scales with AD Items, and you have one hell of a broken Champion.

Not to mention that she basicly gets three abilities at Level 1. And again, too much in one spell. Its an AA reset, a Dash, AoE damage and an AoE Knockup all combined in one spell.

Mr Broken Wings4 votes

{quoted}

I know pretty well why I hate her. A champion like Riven, who combines High mobility, high damage, a low CD Shield that scales with AD, an AoE Stun and that all with an execution Ultimate which also gives her an insane AD steroid, which then again makes her other abilities even more powerful too, is just insane. Now combine that with the fact that she has no ressources at all and how insane she scales with AD Items, and you have one hell of a broken Champion.

Not to mention that she basicly gets three abilities at Level 1. And again, too much in one spell. Its an AA reset, a Dash, AoE damage and an AoE Knockup all combined in one spell.

Her average damage output is one of the lowest of all champions of her class btw. Its not rare for a fed riven to have lower damage output then some other bruiser /assasins over a longer game, just saying. At level 1 she gets a 10 basedamage ability, stop acting like thats ANY useful. Her q aggros minions and to use it to do any damage she has to aa between every q. Play rengar, press q, outdamage her whole q combo at level 1. Her " aoe" stun is a melee spell of a full squish champion, if you really hit more then 1 person with the stun then the enemies are retards. She has to use her defensive ability to engage on you, she always has to decide of she wants to close the gap and give up her defense to trade or just do nothing. Rivens laning is predictable as fuck, you can easyly abuse it if you are any decent. She has a shield that scales with her offensive ability that has a duration thats non existent anymore. Why are you not crying about orianna or rumble or any other champion that scales the same way and has a shield that has 3x longer duration? Answer: You are overreacting THE SECOND you read something about riven and are not able to look at her as you can look at other champions. I know you will disagree but that simply is it. She wasnt even good for a while and you are still acting like her damage is " insane" and she is "broken". Complete bullshit.

Raoul1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Broken Wings,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=V7ExrolI,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T17:31:28.023+0000)

Play rengar, press q, outdamage her whole q combo at level 1.

Ok, that alone made me decide to not ever talk to you again. Riven deals the same base damage on Level 1 Q combo, but AoE and with a 120% AD scaling, compared to Rengars 100% (Since its an AA bonus) Without any changes, ONE RIVEN Q (not the whole combo) deals 34.2 AoE Damage. The whole combo deals 102.6 AoE Damage! ON LEVEL 1, WITH NO ITEMS; RUNES OR MASTERIES! And that doesnt even include the passive stacks you will get from it, allowing you to burst even more damage out. (11.2 for the next 3 Autoattacks, or 33.6 in total)

Rengars Q deals 90 Damage! (Autoattack +30) Single Target.

Mr Broken Wings3 votes

{quoted}

Ok, that alone made me decide to not ever talk to you again. Riven deals the same base damage on Level 1 Q combo, but AoE and with a 120% AD scaling, compared to Rengars 100% (Since its an AA bonus) Without any changes, ONE RIVEN Q (not the whole combo) deals 34.2 AoE Damage. The whole combo deals 102.6 AoE Damage! ON LEVEL 1, WITH NO ITEMS; RUNES OR MASTERIES! And that doesnt even include the passive stacks you will get from it, allowing you to burst even more damage out. (11.2 for the next 3 Autoattacks, or 33.6 in total)

Rengars Q deals 90 Damage! (Autoattack +30) Single Target.

I could start arguing now about minion aggro+time used for the combo and how useful her level 1 q is in a laning szenario but meh, its not worth it, you obviously dont understand anyway how basic laning works. Btw if you act like as if riven can use her 3 qs without getting minion aggroed or aaed back then simply take rengars 2 possible level 1 qs ( 5 stacks empowered q ) as well for your maths? Ill put it simple for you: If you get outtraded by riven at level 1 by any champion right now, then you got massivly outplayed, fact. Even Nasus can only aa without using his q reset and outtrade a riven in a normal laning szenario with his passive lifesteal, fun, isnt it?

Raoul1 votes

Seriously, sometimes I feel like you Riven mains are super scared to admit you dont win most of your games because of your godlike skills and faker like outplays, but because of the champion...

The Sword Saint2 votes

Rengar has burst, even at low levels. Jump out of a bush with q prepped and hit q again for an almost instant huge chunk of health.

Riven does not have burst without having all of her abilities including her ultimate. q auto q auto q auto takes a lot of time, especially because q is not actually an auto attack reset like you claim.

Not only does it take her far far longer to get out all of that combo then it takes for rengar to q-auto-q from a bush, but rengar also gets attack speed to maul her with for the whole time that she's trying to finish her combo, in addition to the fact that if rengar lands the attack first he can just walk away and riven has to chase him into the minion wave for several seconds to retaliate.

With all of her basic abilities up, riven can make safe trades if she times it right and has good positioning - but that requires her to waste a large portion of her kit it get into range, make a small trade, and back off. That is a minimum of two gapclosers, either cutting her damage down twice or just one and blowing her shield, just to move in and out of range. This assumes a perfect positioning and that she isn't stunned or interrupted in any way that wastes a dash and forces her to completely bail and run away with her remaining gap closers.

Late game with items, yes riven can ult and land a flash 3d q auto hydra stun auto windslash ignite combo (or similar) on a squishy out of position target and if done masterfully well that can count as 'burst'. That's about it though.

Stekeltje3 votes

First of all, have you ever played Riven yourself?

If you decide not to talk to him ever again maybe that's because of your own stupidity? Because Riven's Q does:

Broken Wings: 10 damage + 40% bonus attack damage per use (30 + 120% bonus attack damage in total) 250 range per use (750 in total) 13 seconds cooldown

A full use of her Q would give her 30 + 28 damage in total. A total of 58 damage, not taking armor in consideration. Riven adds bonus damage to her auto attacks (20% attack damage). If she hits all three auto attacks, the total damage would be (77 + 15 per hit) 334 damage. This is 3 Q's and 3 auto attacks.

Now let's see the damage of Rengar:

Savagery: Basic attack + 30 damage 6 seconds cooldown Note: resets basic attack timer

The interesting part here is, Rengar can auto attack first and immediately use Q right after, meaning it can attack twice. That would be 76 + 106 which comes down to 182 damage in the first attack. Add 2 more auto attacks and the total damage would be 334.

As you can see, their damage is totally equal with Rengar having the upper hand because his Q cooldown is twice as short as Riven's. Not to mention there is a small delay in Q - AA - Q - AA - Q - AA (depending if you can do the fast Q combo), but we can neglect this since the last Q also has a knock up so let's say it's just even. Another thing is, having AoE is actually a very bad thing in the laning phase. Whenever you want to attack / harass your opponent you automatically pushes the lane which is something you don't want.

TL;DR Please get your facts right before screaming and complaining. The damage is nearly equal.

Edit: Oh and I haven't even started about when Rengar has full stacks.

Stekeltje1 votes

I see you know her abilities. What about her weaknesses? Or you're in the opinion that she doesn't have one at all?

Puynsi1 votes

Riven is AIDS along her player base.

Wînter Fox2 votes

Thank you for the insightful response

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