Boards›Gameplay

Can We Buff Yasuo Ult

boss10000··2 votes·1,468 views

He honestly don't get why his ult has got to be so dam weak, for literally the hardest ult in the game to use (to actually be able to use it) it is really crap, it current has the stats of:

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 200 / 300 / 400 (+ 150% bonus AD)

And keeps them airborne for 1 sec

For the next 15 seconds, Yasuo ignores 50% of his targets' bonus armor. Casting Last Breath clears all stacks of Empowered Steel Tempest Gathering Storm.

This may seem ok but when you compare it to similar ults that are much easier to use (such as lee sin) we can truly see how weak it is.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 200 / 400 / 600 (+ 200% bonus AD)

And knocks back enemies for 1 sec

Then does (+ 12 / 15 / 18% of kicked target's bonus health) to targets hit by the first

So when you see these two you see that Lee Sin's ult does more base damage, more scaling and offers pretty much the same utility (proablly more so since it can be used to set up the team or disengage).

Literally the only thing that anyone could look at and say Yasuo has it better is the 50% bonus armour reduction, which for the masisve amount of damage your losing out on doesn't really balance it, aswell as how hard it is to use Yasuo ult, requiring an obvious broadcast of when you are able to use it, or requiring team work to even get it off, it makes no sense why his ult does so little.

Now the main advantage that Yasuo has with his ult is that it has a lower CD vs Lee but when you consider the damage difference you could at a certain point say that one lee sin ult does about the same damage as two Yasuo ults.

So can we increase the base damage of Yasuo't ult to be more in-line with other similar champions or add some cool tweaks to it,

  • Maybe scaling off crits to suit his theme
  • Does more damage based on the people hit
  • Increase damage based of how long there in the air
  • Applies on hit effect with each hit (thin Fiora old ult or Warwick ult)

The ult needs some buffs cause at the minuet for how much effort it requires to use you never really fell like it give you a big amount of damage or really adds much to your combo it fells more often than not that the shield refresh it gives you is worth more than the ult itself.

33 Comments

Eedat7 votes

you are seriously, seriously playing down the 50% armor shred.

boss100001 votes

50% Bonus Armour Reduction

so it not as affective as you would think.

Red Ryu1 votes

{quoted}

you are seriously, seriously playing down the 50% armor shred.

Bonus Armor.

VasilisGreen1 votes

{quoted}

you are seriously, seriously playing down the 50% armor shred.

50% BONUS ARMOR PENETRATION, not shred. If you have a randuin's omen, a ninja tabi and high base armor and you play against a yasuo with the new trend of having item 3078 instead of item 3035 then they effectively do to you 70% of the normal crit damage and you have at least 100 effective armor to reduce that damage by 50% more... If you build just these 2 items later in the game and have more than 80 base armor and scaling armor runes you have succesfuly neutralised yasuo's "OP" damage... And that's how weak the tri-force build actualy is late game in any duel situation... You complain about a stat that you don't even know what it actualy does. Do you even know how yasuo's ult buff interacts with armor? Answer without looking it up. I already know that you have no idea but i have faith in you. Impress me!!!

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

I actually did the math, and between Ninja Tabi, Randuin's Omen, Reinforced Armor mastery and Yasuo's passive, his crits deal 65.61% from attacks and 54.675% from his Q. His attack/Q crits deal 131.2%/109.4% without IE, 164%/136.7% with IE.

If you build Randuin's+Tabi before Yasuo's IE, his Q crits deal 109% instead of 90% damage.

Also, as a point of reference, a champion's base Armor at level 18 ranges from 65.5 to 96.7. At most, you need 69 base Armor yes exactly 69 to hit 100 effective Armor against his ultimate.

VasilisGreen1 votes

Ninja tabi and Randuin's omen have both 2 passive's that stack against yasuo. When he attacks you normaly he deals 90% of his damage because of tabi's passive on AAs and if he crits randuin's passive and yasuo's passive also kick in for a greater value. so, how can he deal 109% crit damage instead of 90% when you have 2 more passives that reduce his crit damage modifier? Also, how do those passives stack? If they stack additively then you have a 10+10+10 reduction from tabi, randuin's and yasuo's passive. I don't add the mastery to themix because i am talking for more general and mainly offensive setups with defensive measures targeted to yasuo. So, if you are, let's say, Riven or Fiora, you won't have that mastery but you can buy randuin's and tabi. But, regardless of how they stack, how did you come up with that result? The critical damage reduction is a percentage reduction of the modifier itself, not the percentage of the modifier. So, normal crit damage is 200% and goes up to 250% with IE. So, yasuo's passive works like that. 200-10%=180 and that is your new crit modifier. And with ie 250-10%=225 and that's your IE crit mod. So, if you have 30% critical damage reduction you have 200-30%=140 and 250-30%=175. That's how crit damage reduction is applied. So, a Yasuo with no crit damage bonuses does 180% damage when he crits and 225% damage when he has IE. How exactly do you get that?

If you build Randuin's+Tabi before Yasuo's IE, his Q crits deal 109% instead of 90% damage.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

Ninja Tabi reduces the damage of basic attacks by 10%. This includes Crits. So an attack, normal or crit, is dealing 90% of the damage it would deal, before accounting for Armor reduction. 90% of AD for normal attacks, 180% of AD for Crits.

Randuin's Omen and Reinforced Armor mastery both reduce the total damage of Criticals. The general rule for damage reduction in this fashion is multiplicative scaling, rather than additive (if it was additive, Yasuo could actually have negative Crit Damage). So, the total damage of a crit (100%) is reduced by 10% from Ninja Tabi (90%), then that is reduced due to 10% by Randuin's (81%), then that's reduced another 10% because of Reinforced Armor (72.9%).

Finally, we come down to Yasuo's unique modifiers. His basic attack crits have the total damage reduced by 10%, meaning that his basic Crit Damage after all of those modifiers is 65.61% of the normal damage. His Q crits have their total damage reduced by 25%, bringing the total modifier to 54.675% damage.

A normal Crit deals 200% of AD. After all of these modifiers, his basic crits deal (200 * 0.6561) 131.22% of AD, and his Q crits deal (200 * 0.54675) 109.35% of AD.

With Infinity Edge increasing Crit Damage to 250%, the numbers go up to 164% on basics, 136.688% on Qs.

Like I said, I did my homework, teacher. May I go to recess now? :P

VasilisGreen1 votes

Same effects that stack together stack additively. Reinforced armor isthe same effect as yasuo's passive and randuin's passive and ninja tabi doesn't actualy stack with them, instead it kicks in after those and applies after them. It works like bonus armor pen and normal armor pen. The crit damage reduction kicks in first and then you have 30% reduction to yasuo's crit damage and that means that he crits for 200-30%=140% of his attack. after that the tabi kicks in and you have 140-10%=136% damage and after that the armor reduction reduces the final damage value. Also randuin's ome stacks additively to itself and that means that you can buy 5 randuin's omens and have the mastery to reduce his crit damage a total of 70% with his own passive resulting in an underpowering crit damage modifier. So, it's even worse. but you still didn't answer me how did you come to that conclusion

If you build Randuin's+Tabi before Yasuo's IE, his Q crits deal 109% instead of 90% damage.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

{quoted}

Same effects that stack together stack additively.

False. Unless an effect is stated as +%, it stacks multiplicatively.

Tenacity. % Penetration. Damage multipliers. % Stat scalars. Slows, when they used to stack.

Seriously, look it up before telling me I'm wrong, it's getting irritating.

Reinforced armor is the same effect as yasuo's passive and randuin's passive and ninja tabi doesn't actualy stack with them, instead it kicks in after those and applies after them.

They are different effects, but they work together on the same thing, so they work multiplicatively as well.

It works like bonus armor pen and normal armor pen.

Or like % Pen and % Shred. Or % Pen + % Pen. Or Tenacity + Tenacity.

The crit damage reduction kicks in first and then you have 30% reduction to yasuo's crit damage and that means that he crits for 200-30%=140% of his attack. after that the tabi kicks in and you have 140-10%=136% damage and after that the armor reduction reduces the final damage value.

Logically, the total damage reduction would be the first to activate, because it works whether or not the attack is a Crit. However, it doesn't actually matter in which order you do the reduction, because multiplication can be done in any order.

200 * 0.9 = 180% 180 * 0.9 = 162% 162 * 0.9 = 145.8%

Then, taking into account Yasuo's passive, either 145.8 * 0.9 = 131.2% or 145.8 * 0.75 = 109.35%

This is how I got these numbers.

Also randuin's omen stacks additively to itself and that means that you can buy 5 randuin's omens and have the mastery to reduce his crit damage a total of 70% with his own passive resulting in an underpowering crit damage modifier. So, it's even worse. but you still didn't answer me how did you come to that conclusion

Now that you have correct. Randuin's Omen has the passive phrased as -10% damage taken from Crits, so it stacks additively with itself.

Yasuo's passive and Reinforced Armor do not phrase it the same, and are separate sources from Randuin's Omen, so they do not add together.

This is called "systemic logic" and it makes a hell of a lot less sense when put to words.

VasilisGreen1 votes

I actualy did my look up but anyway. Maybe i checked the wrong place. Anyway, in your numbers, things are better for the attacker than in my numbers. About that % armor pen, things stack depending on the type of armor pen. Bonus armor pen goes in first than total armor pen. With yasuo's ult, let's say a garen with 76 base armor and 124 bunus armor. When yasuo ults him, the buff ignores hlf of his bonus armor. So the effective armor for garen is 76+62=138. Now, if you have a last whisper and the armor pen mastery, you have an additional 39% armor penetration and those 2 stack multiplicatively because they are the same effect. Now, after the bonus armor pen is applied, the normal armor pen calculates the new effective value, the 138, not the 200. from that it ignores 39% to have138-39%=84 efective armor. Yasuo's ult rffect is different and affects different stats so it doesn't stack with the normal armor pen effects. Also, %armor shred and %pen also don't stack. In those stats there is an order with which they are applied. First is Flat shred->% shred->Bonus % pen->Bonus flat pen->% total pen->Flat pen. So if on yasuo you have flat pen runes, a youmu's ghostblade, a black cleaver and a last whisper and the armor pen mastery, the effects apply like that item 3071 then the ult buff then the item 3035 with the mastery and then your runes and item 3142 ghost blade flat pen. So, if the target has 100 base armor and 200 bonus armor for a total of 300, then you have300-30%=210 from that value, the 110 are bonus armor and thus you divide it by 2 so the effective bonus armor is 55. the new total armor is 155 and from that you ignore/subtract 39% to get a new total of 94 armor. From that you subtract the flat value of your flat armor pen to get the final effective armor value. That's how armor penetration works. You only stack the same effects but different types of armor pen are applied in different order. %bonus armor pen is not multiplicative with %normal armor pen. I am not sure how armor shred stacks tho and what the final effect is. Like, xin zhao's passive and black cleaver. Is it 45% shred or 41%? And Wukong also does the same. So is it a 85% reduction if you have all 3 effects on you or only 59% reduction? The difference is a massive 26%. If you are something like a malphite who can increase his armor by 30%, it was 40% the last timei checked, and you already have item 3075 , a item 3110 , a item 3143 a item 3068 item 3025 , scaling armor runes and a ninja tabi, you have a total of 92+100+90+60+45+60+25+27=499 armor and then his passive gives him 149 more armor for a total of 649 armor. even with all those 3 effects, if they stack to a 59%, he will still have 265 armor, which is still a lot. after all those, a yasuo with his ult buff and a last whisper will hit him with an effective armor of 109... so, even with all those items, malphite will still be very tanky and will also deal a lot of damage.

But, now that i think of it, based on in game facts, you are right about it... I have been i that situation, of stacking everything and having a lot of armor pen and still not doing damage... Do you think they should buff armor pen???

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

{quoted}

About that % armor pen, things stack depending on the type of armor pen. Bonus armor pen goes in first than total armor pen.

There are two sources of % Armor Pen and % Magic Pen. Last Whisper/Void Staff is the first, and the second is the offensive mastery, Devastating Strikes.

These stack multiplicatively, totaling at 38.9% Pen, instead of adding up to 41% Pen.

It doesn't depend on whether it's Shred, % Total or % Bonus, they're stacked multiplicatively.

And I already knew the penetration stacking order. Flat Shred, % Shred, % Pen, Flat Pen. I even remember when the order was Flat Pen before % Pen. You know, back when Xerath would buy Ionians over Sorcerer's, because the Flat Pen was more than halfway useless after Void Staff + W let him ignore 64% MR (69.4% after the old mastery).

But, now that i think of it, based on in game facts, you are right about it... I have been i that situation, of stacking everything and having a lot of armor pen and still not doing damage... Do you think they should buff armor pen???

Not really, Armor Pen does its job well enough. If you aren't doing damage and you stacked up Armor Pen, you probably need some damage output items. The only current item that comes relatively close is Youmuu's Ghostblade, and I've heard some credible people saying that Youmuu's needs to change because it's too much power in one item slot.

VasilisGreen1 votes

Dude, Yasuo's ultimate buff pen is applied before all other kinds of armor pen and after any kind of armor shred. Last whisper and devastating strikes are the same type of armor pen but are different than yasuo's bonus armor pen. Yasuo's ultimate buff only affects armor gained by any items, masteries, buffs and runes. If you have, let's say, 100 base armor and yasuo ults you and has no other armor pen, his ultimate buff will have no effect on you. stats and buffs of this type stack before normal stats and buffs. It's like Zed's W passive that increases his bonus AD. If you are have let's say 18 lvl, you have 113 base AD. If you have no points in W and you have dragon buff, a bt and a mercurial scimitar and the ad from masteries, you will have 80+80+14 bonus AD and a total of 113+174=287 AD. with thedragon buff, you gain 6% AD which means 287+6%=304 AD. Now, zed's W passive increases your Bonus AD by 25%. This means, from your total AD, it excludes the base value of 113 and increases the rest by 25%. So you get 304-113=191 AD-> 191+25%=239 Bonus AD. This value is then re-added to your base AD to make up your total value. This procces is done each time you gain any flat AD value. The warlord mastery has the same effect as Zed's W passive and stacks with it multiplicatively but it's not the same effect as dragon buff so they don't stack with the same order. This is the same way armor pen differs from bonus armor pen. AD buffs increase the total AD while Bonus AD only increase the bonus part of AD and so they stack with different order since they affect different stats. So does armor pen and bonus armor pen. Armor is a stat different than bonus armor and so buffs/defuffs that affect the one stat don't stack with the other. Armor is a stat that includes bonus armor but the last is affected on it's own if such statement defines it. Garen's old W passive worked the same way and gave 20% bonus armor, just as Zed's W passive gives him Bonus AD. When a stat has 2 parts, a major and a minor, when you increase the minor part you apply the effect after any similar effect that affects the major. When you reduce the minor part, you do it before you reduce the major. AD is the major part and Bonus AD is the minor part and with Armor i mean the major and Bonus Armor i mean the minor. And i have done my lookup about that.

I wasn't playing back when the pen was in that order tho.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Let me reiterate.

I already know how penetration stacks, in what order and everything.

Stop. Explaining. What. I. Already. Know.

VasilisGreen1 votes

Why not? Does it make you mad? i like making people mad :P

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

No, it doesn't make me mad.

It does make me feel like you're ignoring what I say, which gives me no reason to actually continue responding.

VasilisGreen1 votes

Then it's not funny anymore... i failed :'(

Erdamon4 votes

"...for literally the hardest ult in the game to use..."

"the hardest ult in the game to use"

"HARDEST ULT TO USE"

Ha, ha, ha-ha-ha.

Bard Kindred Pantheon Orianna Rumble Shen TahmKench Xerath

Please hold while I'm going to laugh a bit more.

boss100001 votes

I'll quote my self here

for literally the hardest ult in the game to use** (to actually be able to use it)**

I said to be able to use it, as no other ult in the game requires a pre requisite before you are able to use it, then yes i am correct, cause the rest are all press R, while Yasuos requires a knock-up before you can press R, while all the ones you listed can press R to use there ult.

JustMyBassCannon3 votes

{quoted}

I'll quote my self here

I said to be able to use it, as no other ult in the game requires a pre requisite before you are able to use it, then yes i am correct, cause the rest are all press R, while Yasuos requires a knock-up before you can press R, while all the ones you listed can press R to use there ult.

That's not hard, that's a combo. It's the only ult that requires a combo to function. You have exactly what you need to start that combo, and you can combo off of allies as well.

Hard to use would imply that it's actually hard to use. Not "has a prerequisite to activate" like how Katarina can't activate her ultimate without enemies in range.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Please hold me while I laugh at your choices of "hard to use" ults.

Erdamon1 votes

Well they're still harder to use than Yasuo's

Vistha Kai1 votes

I'm sorry, I didn't know your opinion is the only right one.

Even then those ults you listed at best are just as hard to use as Yasuo's.

Ńord2 votes

Not really hard to use... It's fine imo.

alasarcher1 votes

No no no no no. Yasuo ulti doesnt need a buff. You get shield reseted, you get crazy armor penetration, damage is absolutely fine and its CC

boss100001 votes

TBH Yasuo shield is really shit if you look at it, for how long it takes to charge and how easy it is to proc, its really bad compared to any other shield in the game.

The pen is only bonus so it can be completely useless or not usable at all depending on who your ulting.

alasarcher1 votes

{quoted}

TBH Yasuo shield is really shit if you look at it, for how long it takes to charge and how easy it is to proc, its really bad compared to any other shield in the game.

The pen is only bonus so it can be completely useless or not usable at all depending on who your ulting.

It doesnt matter who you ulti, armor penetration lasts next 15 secs, in teamfights 15 secs means you gonna sodomize entire enemy team.

boss100001 votes

Bonus armour so if its someone who doesnt built armour it only really reduces runes and masteires

1011001110001 votes

And you're playing a melee assassin adc, so you have nothing but damage. If you manage to ulti anything that isn't a tank, you're probably going to kill them by virtue of all the damage you bought.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

TBH Yasuo shield is really shit if you look at it, for how long it takes to charge and how easy it is to proc, its really bad compared to any other shield in the game.

The pen is only bonus so it can be completely useless or not usable at all depending on who your ulting.

Not if the enemy is a melee caster. Then they have to burn a skill to pop it, or eat a full combo. Then, late game, it's 400 life. Ult is pretty strong, especially because it keeps them where they are, and can hit multiple targets. Suspending 3 targets in the air is a great ult, and besides - it's a gap closer. Knock up's aren't too difficult to land when you really think about it (dash to target and spin), and the damage is plenty imo.

Matezoide1 votes

Meanwhile it has a 30 seconds CD and auto wins teamfights if theres a Malphite in his team,

boss100001 votes

Thats the teamwork aspect and basing a champions balance on a team comp, is not the balance of the champion its self, its like basiing kog'maw sololy on the juggermaw comp.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Yes, let's compare Yasuo's ultimate to Lee Sin, even though they perform entirely different functions, both the ultimates and the separate champions. Because making inequivalent comparisons is exactly what the Boards are for.

Tonay1 votes

As a Yasuo Main, no.

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