The REASON ADCs are weak is not the ADC. (with exceptions) And other balance issues.

Skorch··5 votes·1,293 views

This post is long so i'll divide it into sections as well as make a TL:DR at the bottom section for people who don't like walls of text. (and for those of you that hate ADC anyway there is still some stuff in here for you)

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ADC in 2017 lul, is basically correct. But the issue isnt the ADC.

Well with the exceptions of Kalista Lucian who were actually flat out weak. As well as Ashe Sivir and maybe MissFortune who aren't really weak, just underwhelming compared to other champions like Twitch for instance.

Now onto the issue with ADCs, Multiple things contributed to the decline of ADCs. Towers and the meta are the issue.

(------------------------------------------------Towers are imbalanced, depending on lane-------------------------------------------)

FBT in itself is not a bad system, as it promotes a somewhat healthy game idea of "race ya to the first to that FBT" The issue is a few patches ago... or a while ago I don't remember.

A decent few patches ago riot implented a system that staggered cannon spawns and changed the length of safety a turret provides based on lane (starting fortification) where bot lane has no fortification at all. This as well as FBT was added to stop LCS players from trading turrets at the start of the game.

(-------------------------------------------------------------Strong jungle presence-------------------------------------------------------------------)

The issue with this is it causes MUCH more pressure on bot early game, and with the recent buff of strength in the jungle (not only that but also how it made safer, tankier champs the meta since they could farm reliably) made it MUCH easier for jungle to capitalize on the weak tower.

Add in the fact that 3 people MIGHT not be able to burst down a tower in the time it takes for them to come back to lane, so now you got the mid roaming down to not only ensure the destruction of the tower, but also cash in a but of that sweet gold themselves. And if they are STILL worried about not getting that tower after 1 double kill, only 1, they can just pick Ziggs and GarenTEE a FBT.

Now the normal defense is "well if this is the strat both teams use then isn't it not a problem again?" Not really, this causes the game to all be focused on bot lane, where generally whoever has more presence wins the lane. MEANING that if either jungler ISNT camping bot, bot WILL lose, especially with mid roams.

(----------------------------------------Reprocutions of Jungle Neglect, TOP TITANS--------------------------------------------------)

Now if you don't ignore bot there is still issues. The top lane, In the top lane there are multiple strong oppressing champions that NEED help to take down. Mainly champs like Poppy and Camille where if you ignore them they WILL win lane and take turret. Which will in turn possibly net them FBT if it wasn't taken bot already.

And what does this do? Allow a super tanky top laner to possibly get SO tanky (while usually still having tools to get to and deal damage to ADC) that they can easily EASILY 1v1 the enemy abused and underfarmed ADC.

(---------Goodbye Late Game, Hello FF@20 If the nexus ISN'T Exploded already...-----------------------------)

So what all of this contributes to is a snowbally incredoubly horrendous situation. The losing team UNDOUBTABLY is not having fun and are being stuck in a 20min game of nothing but being slaughtered once the enemy gets ahead. Of course only if the game LASTS that long as game time (at least in my experience) is REALLY damn low right now.

As well as that old LATE GAME champions are starting to have serious difficulty, not only ADCs but also champs like Nasus whos build recently switched to a super push bot, instead of the old late game raid boss he was known for. And while multiple build IS GOOD, the issue is OLD Nasus is having some touble right now unless your team is designed for stalling (generally).

(------------------------------------------------------------------------Solution------------------------------------------------------------------------------------)

What I think they could do to balance league right now is a to find a way where lanes are more balanced again, where one lane isn't ALL AROUND weaker and yelling "DESTROY ME FIRST PLEASE" but at the same time still keep turret trading out of the game.

FBT MIGHT not be a problem as long as LANES are equal in strength, as this still causes pressure over the whole map instead of a single lane.

MAYBE turn down jungle strength a bit more. They still feel pretty strong right now. I WILL SAY however, if lanes become balanced again this may become less of a problem since junglers will need to have presence over the whole map again.

Also I know people have been complaining about lack of ability to comeback in game, however making the game less snowbally is what we need, not a built in comeback system like some games have, as this is just as infuriating.

Also if you like the length of the game Riot LOWER THE SURRENDER TIME, I believe there has been talk of implementation of a system where if ALL 5 people vote yes you can surrender at like 15 minutes. Wether this is correct or not I do not know, but SOMETHING to lesser the blow of being in a 20 minute stomp-fest

(---------------------------------------------------------------------------TL;DR--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------)

Do to uneven strength in lanes from a lane staggering patch a few patches ago (tower fortification, cannon minions), jungling pressure has narrowed down to the lane designed to be the weakest... Bot.

This has caused multiple issues stemming to the rise of Top lane monsters like Poppy as well as general fun for the losing team to drop since they are stuck in a snowballed slaughter for 20 minutes.

My solution is to make lanes more even again so that ALL of the pressure from jungle, mid, and bot lane champion select. This would cause ADCs to actually be back in control of their lanes again without being buffed directly, and also cause MORE pressure in other lanes so that champions cant just run freely in other lanes with less fear of being ganked. As well as possibly another general jungle nerf. (although please buff abused junglers too like Fiddlesticks )

(also if you just read the TL;DR it goes without saying there is MUCH less information in it.)

Wow that took around an hour to write. I'm almost winded actually.

EDIT: And then i had to fix the format because it got screwed up after I posted it, twice.

15 Comments

Critmaster Garen2 votes

how about we just nerf turret first blood by cutting the bounty in half?

500 gold is excessive, and with champion first blood on top of that, its no surprise that games snowball out of control and end before 20 minutes.

if the gold advantage of such a gangbang wasnt as gigantic, it would be a good start. the focus would still be around bot lane, but it wouldnt be like "hey, if we get this we basically win the game" and force constant pressure on the lane with nonstop ganks.

if they want to keep turet first blood in the game, then adjust the bounty so it creates a slight advantage, and not a 70% to 80% winrate advantage.

also, increase the impact of rift herald.

Skorch1 votes

As i said in a controversial post when FBT first came out. I actually REALLY like FBT, it gets people thinking about pushing and taking turrets right off the bat. Plus (since i thought FBT was 400 not 500 doesnt matter anyway) 250-200 in my opinion is pretty lackluster.

The main issue I have with FBT is that since the lanes aren't equal, the current method is bullying the weakest lane and taking FBT that way, instead of EVERY lane having equal contest over it.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

As i said in a controversial post when FBT first came out. I actually REALLY like FBT, it gets people thinking about pushing and taking turrets right off the bat. Plus (since i thought FBT was 400 not 500 doesnt matter anyway) 250-200 in my opinion is pretty lackluster.

The main issue I have with FBT is that since the lanes aren't equal, the current method is bullying the weakest lane and taking FBT that way, instead of EVERY lane having equal contest over it.

its not lackluster. its still a decent incentive, to rush that first turret. but it isnt so large that its retarded.

i fucking hated turret first blood since they ever came up with the concept. as if the map control around drake and champion first blood wasnt enough. its literally sacrificing game quality for the entire player base to increase viewer quality for pro games.

its disgusting.

Skorch1 votes

I already stated my opinion on it may be an actual positive addition if done correctly.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

I already stated my opinion on it may be an actual positive addition if done correctly.

i dont think it matters which lane you put the extra gold in.

its too much. whoever manages to get champion and turret first blood will snowball completely out of control. especially since champion first blood is most likely to translate into turret first blood for the same lane. if you get ahead in lane and already get champion first blood, it becomes more likely that youre the first one to push the enemy turret down.

get champion first blood and turret first blood onto that Tryndamere on top lane with constant jungle camp, and thats it. game over. youll never stop him from splitpushing, unless you send 3 people into that lane, in which case the rest of enemy team will take everything else you own on the map.

this mechanic is a detriment to game quality no matter which lane it affects. i dont think there is a way to introduce a snowbally mechanic like this correctly. at least not as long as the bounty remains that large.

Tribbles Foxfolk2 votes

{quoted}

ADC in 2017 lul, is basically correct.

No it isn't, get off the bandwagon. This hate-train will die off in a few days. ADCs are still must-haves in every game and still easily determine games, the jungle has just become way too centralized around the unholy item 3078 of Lee Sin, Vi, and Hecarim, all of which need to have a cleaver taken to them.

Skorch1 votes

Did you read... ANY of the actual post, or did you just look at my header and base it off that. Because if you wouldve looked you wouldve seen that I said ADCs DONT NEED TO BE BUFFED. And went in to much depth about how the current situation of the game is going, and what we riot can do to fix the issue of snowballing. Which stems from the issue of bot lane definetly being weak right now do to reasons that aren't the champions themselves.

And unless you are beautifully blissfully unaware, you should know that Riot says that they are keeping a close eye on the role to make sure that ADCs are indeed in games and aren't a useless 1/6th of the champion pool. So i made this post to make sure riot didnt outright buff all ADCs

And who the hell are you calling on the bandwagon, when the opinion of ADCs ACTUALLY being weak is so SO hated by all the biased people out there.

Dynikus1 votes

Kalista appears to be making a bit of a comeback after her recent buffs actually.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Kalista appears to be making a bit of a comeback after her recent buffs actually.

another questionable decision. she was nerfed into inviability for good reason and should have been reworked at least on a scale of the shyvana minirework instead.

Dynikus1 votes

her buffs weren't that big, so I'm not sure where she'll end up or if she'll become as big of a problem as she was before. After playing her for a decent amount of games though, she seems fairly decent even though I'm terrible with her still. My experience doesn't necessarily mean anything though. I just noticed her popularity and winrate are on the rise.

Skorch1 votes

She was still weak pre-buff, that part was more me validating lucian and kali buffs, because while riot doesnt need to buff the ADC role, that doesnt mean that there already werent weak champs IN the role.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

That staggered siege spawning was never actually implemented.

Skorch1 votes

Hmm i just went back and found the patch that wouldve done it, yeah it was never implemented. Well the cannon minions part of it.

Luckily the point still stands that the bot lane turret is still the weakest which is a problem.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Yeah, it is kind of a problem. Personally, I think that if both bot and mid tower lacked fortification early (and top had it), things would be different, as there would no longer be a single weak target, but two that would both require attention to defend/had reason to challenge for.

Alternatively, Riot could have all towers with fortification again and implement the staggered siege minion spawn - keeping first tower gold with the rotating spawns would still serve as an incentive against lane swapping (as bot tower will fall before top), but not make hard pushes in bot as attractive (two people bot is still double waveclear, and by tying the tower taking speed difference to the cannons enables equal strength turrets).

Skorch1 votes

Riot PLEASE listen to this man.

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