Be prepared for a minimum of 4 Marksmen per game.

MealReadytoEat·Oct 29, 2015·36 votes·3,297 views

Okay, the Marksmen changes are hella cool, and I'm glad they'll have real variety, but with variety comes viability. As it is on PBE, certain marksmen outclass most mids, and some most tops.

I mean, its always been a marksmen meta - they are the ONLY class we've seen every game, even during tank and assassin meta, but this is going to be over the top.

I'm not sure if this is entirely a bad thing. They all look REALLY fun to play, and even with them crowding out certain other picks it will be an interesting preseason!

45 Comments

ShandrakeOct 29, 20159 votes

When will the boards use their apparent future vision for something useful, like Lotto numbers. Instead of predicting the future meta.

PrinceOfStormsOct 30, 20152 votes

10 7 18 5 9 3

Do it.

okinoOct 30, 20153 votes

omfg i won 5 million in corn dogs

Old Man TeetoOct 29, 20157 votes

Corki Mid, Quinn Top, Koggy Bottom with support Ashe and jungle Kindred.

Fear the focus fire

KONO RUBICK DAOct 29, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Corki Mid, Quinn Top, Koggy Bottom with support Ashe and jungle Kindred.

Fear the focus fire

no, it's graves top, urgot mid, kindred jungle, anyone adc.

Faded LichOct 30, 20155 votes

Idk where you been but in the league of draaaaaaven there have been 10 marksmen in every game for awhile. Pretty common :^)

Chuck CharlesOct 29, 20153 votes

I wouldn't go that far. I think what you'll see is that they now are trying to put ADCs in other roles besides bot lane so other people can go bot besides adc/morde. Quinn in mid is a try and I can't wait to see how it plays. It could be terribad, but hey I'll give it a shot. Graves also seems like someone who might be able to go top with his up close and personal style of play and his true grit getting buffed to make him pretty tanky. We already have Kindred jungle, etc.

It seems Riot's goal is to put ADCs in a state where there is a viable way to have your marksman carry somewhere other than bot to create diverse gameplay. I like it so far.

Only thing I'm worried about is the new Kog Maw to be honest and the new Runaan's Hurricane. New Kog maw with 5.0 attack speed is going to be broken undoubtedly and be pick ban if it gets to live. I'm going to try it to confirm...but my guess is its going to be ridiuclous. The new hurricane also seems too strong as it is basically an old shiv or PD with runaans together. and the runaans bolts can crit? yeesh.

MealReadytoEatOct 29, 20151 votes

I'm expecting 2 ADC's per side will be pretty standard. One will still bot, especially considering itemization means they can deal with any cheesy non-marksmen bot lane.

I've been playing little but melee carries bot lane recently, Morde, Yasuo, and J4 mostly. ADC itemization is going to be so much better, expecially against cheese like that. I think non-adc's will be worse off after these changes.

darkmatchwaldoOct 29, 20151 votes

I've seen Yasuo Blitzcrank tear apart almost any standard bot lane. These item changes make it seem like he'll be a lot more viable bot lane. The downside to taking him bot and dominating your laning phase has been that you have no ADC for turret sieging later. Now with Quinn Varus Mid Graves Quinn Vayne Top or even Kindred Jungle, you can feel free to destroy bot lane as Yasuo and still have siege power elsewhere.

MealReadytoEatOct 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I've seen tear apart almost any standard bot lane. These item changes make it seem like he'll be a lot more viable bot lane. The downside to taking him bot and dominating your laning phase has been that you have no ADC for turret sieging later. Now with Mid Top or even Jungle, you can feel free to destroy bot lane as and still have siege power elsewhere.

Their's a keystone that gives you 15% vamp on all critical strikes, and makes them increase your AS by 20% for 4 seconds...

Yasuo might be an exception to the changes, largely due to masteries. Trinity is getting 10% more crit too, I don't know whats up with shiv. Morde is going to struggle though.

Edit- Yasuo is insane. Shiv now gives 30% crit, TF 20%. With those two items, he has 100% crit and 15% Vamp thanks to masteries. I don't even know what to get from there, all his bases are covered.

Great OzymandiusOct 30, 20151 votes

They need to buff thornmail to hurt this strategy.

XonraOct 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm expecting 2 ADC's per side will be pretty standard.

This isn't really new though by any stretch, even this season.

I mean we've season Ezreal, Varus, and Urgot just in mid, even in pro play. The only reason we haven't seen it more is because people in ranked are more rigid about roles and people going to X lane than the pros are somehow. You see Kennen adc at worlds and you try that in solo queue and someone is reporting you.

As much as I already enjoy Cait mid (and have yet to lose with it ever in pvp), people throw a hissy fit about it. Until pros start playing adcs everywhere, solo queue players will pitch hissy fits about it until it becomes the "new meta".

Crazy DíamondOct 30, 20152 votes

It's day 1 and most of the reason so many ADCs are being picked in the same game right now is because people just want to test out the new reworks. It's probably a bit premature to say every game will have a minimum of 2 ADCs on a team.

RebonackOct 29, 20151 votes

Koggy is losing the base damage on his W, just to mention. It'll gain 1.25% max HP damage per 100 AD that Koggy has.

So he'll need 240 total attack damage to match his Live W DPS. Going balls to the walls attack speed/OnHit might not actually be a good idea.

MealReadytoEatOct 29, 20153 votes

Bork will be even more insane on him. Sure, it might take a while for his W to match his live values, but its doubling on-hits from items and masteries too.

RebonackOct 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Bork will be even more insane on him. Sure, it might take a while for his W to match his live values, but its doubling on-hits from items and masteries too.

BotRK is also dropping from 8% damage down to 6% in addition to a price-hike.

MealReadytoEatOct 29, 20152 votes

It will still be incredibly strong for koggles.

LankPantsOct 29, 20155 votes

item 3153 item 3115 item 3085 item 3089 item 3100 item 3006

Why do you need AD for his W? It also scales with AP.

junglerboy16Oct 30, 20151 votes

AS+On-hit Koggles is gonna be pretty insane...

MealReadytoEatOct 30, 20151 votes

Seems it does! When they first announced it, they said they were taking of the AP scalings, but it seems it is in right now.

Great OzymandiusOct 30, 20151 votes

get rid of the lich bane and replace it with a gunblade. gunblade now will give life off of the w damage. it also might make sense to build a wits end instead of the bork to give you mr shred

BorblandOct 30, 20151 votes

Dont forget item 3091 .

If on-hit with W is really doubled, oh god...

Even better, Kog jungle with: item 3933 item 3006 item 3153 item 3091 item 3085 and just to troll ennemies item 3022

Chuck CharlesOct 29, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Koggy is losing the base damage on his W, just to mention. It'll gain 1.25% max HP damage per 100 AD that Koggy has.

So he'll need 240 total attack damage to match his Live W DPS. Going balls to the walls attack speed/OnHit might not actually be a good idea.

240 ad is very easy to get. and remember the W is going to DOUBLE his attack speed.

RebonackOct 29, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze IV Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UpyuOAMa,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-10-29T20:55:25.816+0000)

240 ad is very easy to get. and remember the W is going to DOUBLE his attack speed.

Yes, I accounted for that.

240 total AD gets him 3% max HP damage per pew.

Also keep in mind that most of the raw AD masteries are biting the dust. And most raw AD items are losing 10-15 AD. And all ADCs are getting a -13 AD nerf to their total AD at level 18.

Why do you need AD for his W? It also scales with AP.

He gets 0.7% damage per 100 AP. It's something, but it isn't much. His Ult also scales three times as hard with bonus AD.

Spacesuit SpiffOct 30, 20151 votes

Full AS and then Gunblade. Use the active every 4 seconds in a fight

darkmatchwaldoOct 29, 20151 votes

I would love to see that, it would let the assassins come out to play Talon Zed Katarina Rengar

MealReadytoEatOct 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I would love to see that, it would let the assassins come out to play

Except the new items give them good tools to deal with assassins :/

Graves especially is gonna be beast vs assasins. Jump on him, and you'll get a face full of buckshot.

darkmatchwaldoOct 30, 20153 votes

They may have some good tools to deal with assassins, but they're still gonna have to outplay them. Assassins can wipe out 90% of their healthbar in the time it takes to get one aa in, it'll take some crazy skill to fight back once you've been bursted that hard. I'm very excited to see how it turns out.

Captain AishiOct 30, 20152 votes

suddenly exhaust just replaced flash as the mandatory summoner spell... oh god

TexamusOct 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except the new items give them good tools to deal with assassins :/

Graves especially is gonna be beast vs assasins. Jump on him, and you'll get a face full of buckshot.

He's bad Vs. hard tanks though, and he has a lot of downtime with low DPS, just high burst and tankiness. He simply has no method of doing damage to anyone but the tank line outside of diving past the tank line. Don't think of him as a ranged champ, he's a lot moore like a melee with long AA range.

He'll be good Vs. assassins and squishy divers sure, but will get kited all day long by anyone with good range.

outliving38Oct 30, 20151 votes

i win games with JG kalista, 75% win rate

TurquoiseYoshiOct 30, 20151 votes

I'm looking forward to a lot of Ez and Corki mid, and a lot of Graves and Quinn top.

Captain AishiOct 30, 20151 votes

pretty sure you meant 'per team' :P

9kPluzZOct 30, 20151 votes

not gonna happen with champs like Zed and Akali in the game.

MealReadytoEatOct 30, 20151 votes

Please, between TahmKench and Graves , assasins can't do much.

FakeGravityOct 30, 20151 votes

Quinn mid with Caitlyn top with corki bot and tahm kench support plus a nunu jungle for the attack speed

HentRexOct 30, 20151 votes

Just saying, very rarely does Riot put out a rework/release that doesn't range from, a tad strong to game breaking overpowered. It's to get hype around the new idea and see how the mechanics work, then try to tone them back to balanced states. That's the main reason Riot was crying over the Mord/Darius perma ban rates. They couldn't see "How" the changes affected the game. They only knew people didn't like to face them. Kindred and Bard are the only champions, in my opinion, that have come out balanced on release in the past two years. Even though Kindred, on paper, has an overloaded kit, there is still plenty of counterplay to her. And she has really fun mechanics that go with her. Like the saying goes," It's always better to cook to much food, than not enough." I doubt that the adc wave will last to long. It might bring back some fighters with sticking power, and junglers that have been left by the way side. That said it does kinda look like it will encourage more of the tank support meta. Does sound like fun though. Good luck next season mate.

Nunya BezwacksOct 30, 20151 votes

actually no we have always seen marksman because people cry when you take anything not played in the LCS there hasn't been a marksman meta since before season 3 there have always been marksman because there is always a marksman for every meta in assassin meta its champions with self peel like tristana in tank meta its champions who can burn through tanks like vayne and kogmaw. and you bitching about them crowding out top and mid picks is retarded. there are no adc who crowd out champions like riven,renekton,malphite, and the like because of the damage and defense they bring being DESIGNED to stop them. and you bitching about mid being crowded out by ADC is retarded because of assassins which exist solely to take champions like every marksman sit them in the corner and say "you don't get to play today." your saying to put people in a lane dominated by the champions that were made to destroy them.

goldensilver09Oct 30, 20151 votes

Rammus OK

FiruOct 30, 20151 votes

I've played Support, Jungle, and ADC. It is not always a marksman meta, don't over react. To say that there is one in every game is like saying we're always in a jungle meta because each team has a jungler. You forget the times when bursts and tanks were amazing at their job of diving and destroying marksman. It's just the yin-yang of LoL - some styles of champions will be better at some points in the game lifespan than others.

I imagine, that yes, for the first week (or even two) people will be playing all the marksman because they're "new". No different than when a new champion gets released. People want to try them out, test them out, and see if they fit in other roles.

TerntOct 30, 20151 votes

I think the point to Mordekaiser's rework was to address this topic. Push people onto a champion that doesn't fit the role of ADC, but benefits from dual laning.

LaçezOct 30, 20151 votes

Goodbye to Assassins although I'll still play them as they're my favourite role, they'll just get rekt by this new overwhelming Marksmen thing and the ridiculous amount of crit for insane burst on top of the attack speed ._. Bye Khazix item 3070

Oh and they're getting rid of the "cleave" passive on Tiamat and nerfing the whole item in general...

Btw what do you think about the new Lucian "culling" cap put on different levels and the removal of attack speed scaling on his ult? Idk what to think whether it is good or bad... only time will tell

MealReadytoEatOct 31, 20151 votes

Lucian is extremely overpowered on PBE right now, I can tell you that.

He can build a ton of AD while still having 60-90% crit and 40% CDR, and his full ult will kill any squishy in the game.

Its REALLY brutal.