Karma Worst Midlane and 2nd Worst Support

Deathfall··30 votes·11,463 views

This shield nerf really put her in the worst spot she has been in awhile. This is proof that for the past 5 years Riot Games have been working with a kit that has not worked well since the relaunch. Everything that was unique and interesting on this champion was removed and what was left is a generic kit that is buffed to the sky with power. Players don't like playing as Karma or going up against Karma because she is such an annoyance to play against, because of her kit. As a Karma main since season 2 I can tell you no one likes playing her and for the past 5 years the vast majority of the playerbse that actually likes Karma, has told this Development team the kit is not working.

The Ardent Censor meta really clouded any feedback, development and work that could have been done on Karma because they overbuffed her shields and created an entire line of itemization that revolved around that. Everyone told them it was a horrible decision to make not just Karma, but enchanters in general, revolve around shields/heals. Look where we are now not just with Karma but with Lulu, Orianna and many others. Now the mains of these champions are waiting for hypothetical work to be done on their favorite champions, but in reality it will be just another shield buff.


Karma needs her entire kit reworked, she needs a little more skill and uniqueness, she needs incomplete art assets finished, and above all Karma needs a damn identity. This is all stuff that was taken away or not completed because of the relaunch that no one liked to begin with. Everyone has been telling them this for years now and here they are slotting a potential rework spot for a champion that should have received work well before half of the roster that has been reverted now.

43 Comments

Nea1045 votes

Nerfing her shield is the final proof they have no idea what they're doing.

Or, that they are intentionally trying to destroy their own game :P

KZ Engel4 votes

that's good

fuck karma

most annoying champ in the game

even when she's not good, she's obnoxious as hell, moving at the speed of light and standing barely out of range while spamming a snare

Cavesloth17 votes

Wow, nice, instead of empathizing with the OP who agrees with you that not only is karma not fun to play SHE'S NOT FUN TO PLAY AGAINST you go and be a dick and say "fuck karma".

You are the Karma of the boards, not fun to have around on your team or against it, and in desperate need a of a rework. Congrats, you are the thing you hate.

ZackTheWaffleMan13 votes

#burn

KZ Engel2 votes

[deleted]

Cavesloth12 votes

I was wrong and I'm man enough to admit it, you aren't the Karma of the boards, cause nobody would miss you if you were gone.

HeimerLmao4 votes

summoner 14

jocomotion2 votes

[{quoted}](name=KZ Engel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UeiqQfqs,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-06-20T20:53:47.635+0000)

why should i read the body of a post in gameplay&bronze LOL

Ya know what imma give you an upvote because you noticed your screw up, lol

2Charmnot2Charm1 votes

If you're not gonna read it just don't bother replying to the op since you'll just make an fool out of yourself.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

If she's standing that far away, how are you not breaking the tether before the snare goes off?

Shrek Luigi1 votes

dont talk about my wife like that Karma Karma Karma Karma

OverpoweredSoap3 votes

When it takes you 3 years to buff a champion to viability after a rework that should be a sign of either an EXTREMELY weak or badly designed kit.

PowerOfMyKarma3 votes

Don't worry. Yasuo need to be under vision for hotfix, so he never drop under 50%, so there is no time for karma. Not a single streamer plays her. That's reason why balance team just write about her. Same with lissandra syndra, corki on mid. They need buff for at least 10 patches.

CMoney552 votes

The fact she got nerfed after being consistently weak is honestly rediculous. I also fully agree with re-working her kit because Riot can't seem to balance it.

Solidair32 votes

They're aware. Right now the internal conversation seems to be "do we give her numbers buffs now or do we wait for a mini rework?"

Personally, I think she could use some numbers in the meantime, but as long as the work gets done, I suppose that's all that matters to me.

remakoro1 votes

Im missing something Who is worst support if karma is only second worst? What so terrible happened to Lulu?

OverpoweredSoap1 votes

{quoted}

Im missing something Who is worst support if karma is only second worst? What so terrible happened to Lulu?

If we're going by op.gg the other support that's worse than her is support MF.

League of graphs (winrate wise) has her at 3rd worse above Shen and Tahm Kench Support.

remakoro4 votes

MF isnt support and never was. She was very niche counter due to particular champion being too overtuned in particular meta. Considering her support is outright silly.

OverpoweredSoap5 votes

{quoted}

MF isnt support and never was. She was very niche counter due to particular champion being too overtuned in particular meta. Considering her support is outright silly.

Ok, then Karma is the worst support in Korean Plat+ if we're not taking MF support in account.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

MF isnt support and never was. She was very niche counter due to particular champion being too overtuned in particular meta. Considering her support is outright silly.

MF Support was a niche counter pick to Zyra and only worked with specific ADC's.

Ashe Jhin Varus

thaBeast1 votes

problem with karma that i see is riot doesnt know what she is as her q fits a mage her rw fits a tank and her e fits a support if she was made to be one type of champion her winrate could have a increase

Gabresol6 votes

{quoted}

problem with karma that i see is riot doesnt know what she is as her q fits a mage her rw fits a tank and her e fits a support if she was made to be one type of champion her winrate could have a increase

if we combine that together we have somethng you can call a combat mage.

HeimerLmao1 votes

Or Karma.

Luxana Crowngard1 votes

At least her stats aren't Sona tier.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

A Latte Deaths1 votes

Sona is pretty good right now IIRC. High winrate, but low pickrate.

Luxana Crowngard2 votes

Sona is only good right now because of the items she buys. Her healing max rank + full build barely heals for 238 health while other enchanters or anybody else with a heal heals like 500+

Now Sona does have the mixed heal + shield part which is mainly why I play Sona. I stopped caring about her heal, cared more for the shield that could save someone. I say Sona stats tier because her base stats are possible the worst stats in the game.

Caretaker Jack1 votes

Karma's win rates dropped along with every other heal spam meta abuser... Karma was never as popular as the others, so it's only common sense that her win rate would be lower because only the people who do her hardcore are going to thrive at the 50% mark.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Umm duration isnt a nerf sooooo yah

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

Incorrect. this means that she has less Sustain. The time Between shields actually have changed. Shields used to last 5 seconds now are 2 seconds. Cool downs are roughly 10 seconds long.

Normally you'd only wait 5 seconds for the next shield. now it is 8 seconds. (Should go without saying, but shields Cooldowns apply after activation, and NOT when the shield depletes.)

This is an 8 Second Window to engage before the next shield comes.

KlydeFrog1 votes

I guess i could care less abput duration because its not a big deal to me. Your argument is minute because your saying if the duration lasts the whole time with out breaking

A Latte Deaths1 votes

What about lane trading where having a shield on you can zone the enemy away from CS? If you have a shield on, it means the enemy will almost certainly lose a trade, so you're able to threaten a trade to zone them away from CS. This creates a CS lead over time. If the duration of the shield is nerfed, so is the length of time you can zone away an enemy.

What about DoTs like ignite that now have longer durations than the shield?

Shield length is a massive nerf. You just have to actually think about all of the less noticeable things it affects instead of just the obvious cases.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Again not a big deal lol. Im duration isnt really a nerf. So yah just get better at timing

A Latte Deaths1 votes

I don't know how else to make my point since I explained pretty well that stricter timing has little to do with the actual harm in these nerfs. I'm questioning whether you actually read my reply since you're just blatantly wrong.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Again how can i put it simpler. Duration isnt really a nerf. They buffed athenes while slightly lowering the % in bonus healing and shielding. How is duration a nerf? Its not a big deal. Duration and shield strength/ap ratios

A Latte Deaths1 votes

Imagine this scenario: you're in lane vs an orianna and she shields herself to go in for a trade. You know that you will lose that trade because of the shield, so you back away from her until her shield expires. Because you backed away from her, you lost 2 minions. Over the course of the game, she does this a bunch of times and you end up missing 10-20 minions just because of this tactic.

The amount of time orianna can zone you off of cs is the amount of time that her shield lasts for. If the duration is shorter, she can zone for a shorter period of time.

To the same effect, since opponents generally avoid trading while you're shielded, it gives you time to safely CS while the shield is active. The time that you can safely CS is diminished when the duration of the shield is shortened.

Another scenario: you barely survive a fight with your laner and your laner ignites you as you disengage. Your shield is up, so you shield for 4 seconds (pre nerf shield time). This almost completely nullifies ignite's damage. Now, with the 2.5 second duration, you are taking at least half of the damage from ignite. This extra damage can easily result in kills that they wouldn't have gotten pre-nerf.

There are more scenarios where shield duration is incredibly important, and they all add up to show that these shield nerfs are large.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Imagine this i play ivern. Iverns shields dont last long. I could careless about duration because again duration isn't really a nerf. Iverns shields dont last long but dont have a long cd so why are you crying again. You act like they cut tge base and ap ratio in half

A Latte Deaths1 votes

That's irrelevant. What you play is not pertinent to this discussion. Yes, shorter duration is a nerf.

Nobody here is crying. I think the shield nerfs were a good idea. They were massive nerfs though.

DearPear1 votes

{quoted}

I guess i could care less abput duration because its not a big deal to me. Your argument is minute because your saying if the duration lasts the whole time with out breaking

It might not be a big deal to you, her winrate still dropped.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Any supp tgat can shield win rate dropped then if duratiin is a nerf. Lol. Its not a big deal. I play ivern so it has 0 effect on him

DearPear1 votes

{quoted}

Any supp tgat can shield win rate dropped then if duratiin is a nerf.

I just can't understand what you said.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Ill explain it slower then. That means any supp who can shield winrate will drop correct since they "nerfed" them.

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

Well, what if they changed the Duration so that it matched the time when it came off cooldown.

So. The moment the shield would wear OFF it would be back up again. (In other words, the shield would last 10 seconds. and the cooldown would be also 10 seconds.)

In your mind. You dont seeing that being sorta broken. OR... not even a "Buff" because all were doing is just increasing the duration.

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