So.... did we realise yet how stupid black cleaver is?

Ahristocats··20 votes·3,576 views

https://i.gyazo.com/60f68698966980438c54ad06c17d5929.png

it's starting to be built in every single game, like any game has at least one black cleaver, on ashe on lucian on fiora on zed on jayce on anyone

don't start on "make it melee only" it's nowhere to be balanced on both melees and ranged, the fact that ranged champions are buying it, is due to how broken the item is and becomes stronger than their own items, it increases the damage of EVERY AD in your team jesus

the worst thing of the entire story is how it makes champions who are supposed to fall off in late game falling less in late game due to 20% cdr and armor shred

it's getting -6% armor shred in next patch and it's nothing, it won't stop the item from being built everytime on 90% of ad champions the armor shred is a real problem, the item is both strong in teamfight and in 1v1

honestly the stats should be way weaker than this.... you should only use its strength in teamfight for your team you shouldn't destroy people with a collumn of stat when it has armor shred

83 Comments

dolphinosplash246 votes

The armor thingy is getting nerfed this patch 4% instead of 5% per stack

50000000000000005 votes

Armor items are also getting more armor and less hp though. We'll have to see how the changes interact, but we need to realize that it's not a straight nerf. It's accompanied with an indirect buff.

Mokuto Bunshi1 votes

Not entirely true. Althought it IS more useful against more armor, the items will still provide 76% of their armor value which is not more than before. You are right with us needing to see how the changes interact. However that may not be in indirect buff I think you are expecting.

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Penns5 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/8ac7f131023d42eae65ef00d2fd781b5.png first let me finally get at least fking d5 with it kappa xd

Ben Sharpio15 votes

if everyone wasnt building ninja tabi we'd be freaking the fuck out over how broken AD itemization is

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Sion Bot l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbwbAlhz,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-04-30T00:13:13.916+0000)

if everyone wasnt building ninja tabi we'd be freaking the fuck out over how broken AD itemization is

try to kill this piece of shit as an ad champion Lucian item 3071 item 3153 item 3047

Anhartamin1 votes

[deleted]

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

WEQ as zed, wait a second ult and he's done?

double shuriken as zed and ignite E and two autos. won't even kill him. he kills you/

Votable Jester8 votes

No Black Cleaver on Ori? Wtf that items too op to go without :P

KVbqbFsC8e5 votes

The thing I hate about it is Darius hitting you a single time and getting a full 6 stack proc. Those types of interactions shouldn't exist.

fuffychan3 votes

But it makes champions unique and diverse hehehe

Ahristocats1 votes

[deleted]

fuffychan3 votes

I suppose the "hehehe" didnt make the sarcasm obvious enough

Ahristocats2 votes

sarcasm is best to use when you see an argument used

no one in this ENTIRE dimension said that darius can apply a stack of black cleaver with one attack because it makes champions diverse

and to answer to your question, the reason he can do this is because he has a DOT just like old talon Q who could also apply 6 stacks with one spell

and now to get back to darius black cleaver is retarded on darius because it's black cleaver, and it doesn't matter that he can apply it with one or 6 attacks (it needs 6 seconds anyway) it's still going to be too strong on him due to how black cleaver is (shit ton of stat and armor shred and bonus ms)

and as a darius main, i want this item to be nerfed to the ground

Only Play Darius3 votes

If BC got gutted Darius would need compensation buffs, and Riot doesn't like giving those to champions not named Ahri

Big Lincoln1 votes

simple fix we give Darius a dash so he can become an LCS money cow

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

and as a darius main, i want this item to be nerfed to the ground

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

AirKingNeo2 votes

Yeah 6 stacks, after his Dot ticks 5 times. People seem to forget this.

Big Lincoln4 votes

make it armor ignore/pen not armor shred

teamwide AD buff on a core item shouldnt exist

PermabannedGaren2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbwbAlhz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-29T23:47:38.775+0000)

make it armor ignore/pen not armor shred

teamwide AD buff on a core item shouldnt exist

Tbh. Fuck my team anyway amirite or amirite?

Big Lincoln4 votes

amping your own damage on an item with the stats that cleaver does is more than enough

PermabannedGaren4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbwbAlhz,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-04-30T00:07:22.133+0000)

amping your own damage on an item with the stats that cleaver does is more than enough

I wasn't being sarcastic.

Big Lincoln1 votes

then you are reported for toxic

fuffychan4 votes

You of all people advocating black cleaver nerfs?

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

or make it on a tank item... like the new item 3001 [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Catastrop1 votes

Not really? It can and should exist, the issue is that Riot needs to decide who they want to build it and actually balance it for those champions.

Big Lincoln1 votes

it is balanced for those champions.

shouldn't exist anywhere except in champion kits though

chipndip14 votes

Cleaver's being built every game?

item 3107 Get in line. item 3107

Irelia Bot4 votes

To bring up problem B to ignore problem A does not make problem A disappear.

chipndip13 votes

Who said I'm ignoring Cleaver?

Fed by Snu Snu3 votes

Funny thing is that without black cleaver the same champions just get stomped.

It's kind of the Redemption of AD. No middle ground allowed because Rito balancing at its finest.

FalconPawwwwnch2 votes

Fiora would still be OP without cleaver

That's how broken she is rn

SirLapse1 votes

Trinity doesn't do as well as Cleaver for a Fiora when dealing with multiple tanks. You'll see more Cleavers than Tri Force simply due to that fact. Fiora can fight any laner, but that doesn't really make her OP. Pick up Swain/Rumble or something like Nasus where holding your W makes it impossible for her to really parry it, and she's really not as effective as people make her seem to be.

Im A Jayce God3 votes

Well when youre facing a malphite with 501 armor, youre gonna need that item.

Fed by Snu Snu2 votes

Just make it an armor/attack speed item and see it go the way of Wit's End.

AirKingNeo7 votes

And make the item worthless and kill off the essential item of many champion? I don't think that's a good idea.

Irelia Bot3 votes

You might be surprised what the attack speed P AD + armor reduction BC could do.

It was just really situational compared to what LW was at the time where LW would benefit you if you were attacking the 300 armor tank or the 50 armor enemy carry.

Melledoneus2 votes

How about the stacks are based on your bonus HP? For every 300 points of bonus HP you get 5% shred, up to 30%.

Boom, juggernauts rejoice.

DJMason881 votes

That would hurt bruisers too much I think.

Melledoneus1 votes

I mean... bruisers build HP...

KoKoboto2 votes

Black Cleaver and Morellonomicon are just built every game same with Redemption and Locket. I wouldn't call any of the items broken but there is a problem here being that they're broken.

DJMason884 votes

I dont think Morellos is broken, there mage itemization is just horrible.

Gelmous1 votes

revert black cleaver changes, bring back pre-reworked BC

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

revert black cleaver changes, bring back pre-reworked BC

Original reworked BC best BC.

Obviously joking , League of Cleaver was the worst state I've ever seen the game be in.... [aside from dynamic queue but that's not really "in game"]

Gelmous1 votes

i'm talking about when it gave you attack speed the OG black cleaver

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

i'm talking about when it gave you attack speed the OG black cleaver

I don't remember what OG Black Cleaver was like.

I just remember it had attack speed (Season 1)... then it was reworked for its shred to be 15 armor per hit with 45 armor shred as max (early to mid season 2 ?) , then it was later reworked to give raw damage instead of attack speed (S3?) , and then League of Cleaver happened in.... what was it? season 4 ish?

Gelmous1 votes

yeah around there, in the middle of season four i guess

the old black cleaver used to give you 75 AD 40% attack speed and armor shred not sure how much.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

yeah around there, in the middle of season four i guess

the old black cleaver used to give you 75 AD 40% attack speed and armor shred not sure how much.

cleaver was reworked in preseason 3.

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbwbAlhz,comment-id=000800000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-30T08:16:25.176+0000)

cleaver was reworked in preseason 3.

I assume you mean the League of Cleaver version... it has been reworked several times... anyway I could have sworn it was S4 when it happened. Has it really been that long...? damn I'm old.

Anyway, League of Cleaver was the worst meta League has ever had, by an enormous margin. Though some people argue that League of Thunderlords, League of Warmogs and traditional meta-golem were all worse; Those people are dumbasses.

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