My fears towards new MF seem to be justified.

Remlap1223··16 votes·1,949 views

EDIT: WARNING! GIANT WALL OF TEXT INCOMING!

Riot, as a longtime MF main, these new changes make me really uncomfortable. You talk about removing her grievous wounds as a way to shave off "hidden power" in favor of "clarity" but the issue here is that grievous wounds wasn't just hidden power, it was her only power. Miss Fortune currently isn't in a "healthy" state. Her grievous wounds is the only thing keeping her in the "niche pick" status right now. I can't find any recorded games for her outside Silver, and considering the fact that Varus is still played as an ADC all the way up to at least Platinum, while still being considered trash as a designated ADC, that's a major red flag.

Miss Fortune's unique niche was her ability to just make healers and drain tanks cry. That's what I pick her for. I seriously recommend you buff her heavily on release because these new changes that you're proposing, they aren't up to snuff.

I'll bet all of my skins (all of them except secret agent and captain) that these new changes will drop her below a 45% win rate. That's how certain I am that you're gimping her. In all honestly, from what I can tell from what little you've shown for her abilities and what I've scrounged from lolwiki, I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if she becomes the newest member of the "39%" club.

You're seriously underestimating how powerful grievous wounds were for her. It was how she was able to outduel every other carry besides Vayne and Twitch. If these changes go through, Sivir will be able to outduel her. Graves will be able to outduel her. Freaking Corki, will be able to outduel her. Honestly, the only thing that I can think of off of the top of my head that would ever convince me that she'll be able to not be the worst champion in the game (yes, she's going to be worse than Elise if her passive is still knocked off by minion aggro) is if she gets a magic penetration ratio based off of her armor penetration.

From what I can tell from lolwiki, that's not the end to her woes. From what I can tell, her W active lasts for only 3 shots. I'm sorry, WHAT? That's an ungodly nerf. I don't care that you doubled her attack speed bonus off of that, 3 shots is just ridiculous. Tristana's AS boost lasts for much, much longer and scales almost twice as hard. You're trying to reformat her into a burst AD caster, but she has a passive that deals on hit magic damage on auto attacks. Explain to me how that's supposed to help her? I get that 50% attack speed is huge, but at the very least keep a timed duration. Halve it if necessary. But going from a 6 second 20 - 60% attack speed boost and grievous wound launcher to a 50 - 70% attack speed boost for only 3 AAs and removing the grievous wounds? That's not a stealth nerf, that's a stealth GUTTING. That's Blitzcrank levels of "we hate this ability and want to see it as useless as possible."

And the sad part is, I'd be ok with all of it, ALL OF IT, if only you fixed her goddamn passive. Right now the most infuriating thing to deal with is how effortlessly her passive gets knocked off (especially right now with how bad the minions are). That "buff" to her W where you give her strut back? Yeah, it's getting knocked off as soon as you activate it again because the pervy caster minion decided to randomly aggro you.

I'm writing this because you're going to get backlash on level with that of Zilean or Cass. You're literally destroying Miss Fortune right now, regardless of the trivial buffs you've given to her Q, W, and E. Here's the only way that you can salvage this:

  • Give her minion and monster damage immunity (like Garen) starting at level 11.
  • Give her W active a shield. If what I'm reading correctly from her new passive is that shields block passive knockoff. That's the only way you're going to salvage her W active. It'll keep her from being completely reliant on shield based supports, and doesn't lower her effectiveness with kill lane supports unecessarily. And the only way that you're going to make that shield not compltetly useless is if you give it an AD scaling. Hmm... why does that sound so problematic? Riven Yasuo can only cast his ultimate when he knocks someone airborne, but he still has a knockup in his kit. What you're doing is on par with removing Yasuo's knockup in his kit.
  • Increase the AD scaling (not the stack amount) on Impure Shots per level of Bullet Time. Instead of 5-8 stacks, up the AD ratio from 6-9%. Same damage, greater DPS. I mean, really, how often in a 1v1 trade vs two ADCs do you ever get 8 AAs off before someone dies? Let's be realistic here.
  • Let Wit's End steal MR from all magic damge, not just auto attacks. Kinda weird thing to suggest, I know, but hear me out. The most viable build I had for Miss Fortune prior to the recent changes to Black Cleaver was either the "hypercarry" build (item 3031 item 3072 item 3078 item 3142 item 3026 item 3006) or the "utility" build (item 3031 item 3072 item 3078 item 3071 item 3091 item 3006). The hypercarry build I built on more squishy teams, and the utility build I built on tank heavy teams. Both worked pretty damn effectively (replaced Triforce with Statik Shiv on the utility build post 5.11). But now that grievous wounds are out, the utility build just took a major hit. One of the problems was that Wit's End only applies to AAs, while Black Cleaver gets the any physical damage treatement. So all I'd have to do is ult and the entire enemy team's armor and regeneration would just get shredded. Giving Wit's End the Black Cleaver and Spirit Visage treatment will help.
  • Put grievous wounds back on her kit, but apply it at full stacks of Impure Shots. I know that you guys kinda have a hard-on for getting GW out of the game as evidenced with Fizz, but like I said, it's the only way that Miss Fortune doesn't turn into complete shit. I'm sorry, if I knew another option, I'd suggest it, but there literally is no option. If MF doesn't have GW in her kit, she's going to be bad unless you buff her numbers to disgusting levels not the whole "play it safe" method you're going with right now. Until you nerf Vlad, Mundo, Volibear, and Akali's sustain, grievous wounds are going to be a necessary evil.

Teal Deer: This is a response to what I found on lolwiki for the proposed Miss Fortune changes. Just look up her name. Remlap1223 is not very happy right now, in fact, I'd argue that for how equally awesome they made Gangplank, they made Miss Fortune equally shit.

Edit 2: To all you butthurt babies that I thrashed in arguments for my case, downvoting me doesn't make me any less right. If Miss Fortune turns out to be OP after this, you can downvote and give me shit, but until then, you're going to have to give me some real objective proof that MF will be than she is now.

29 Comments

Linna Excel8 votes

Overall, I agree that MF shouldn't be forced to buy a nomnomnomicon in order to have access to grievous wounds. I don't think the new strut active will work at all and the AS boost time isn't that great.

TotemBuffalo5 votes

to be honest all they needed to do to make her more viable is just make it where she didnt lose strut to minion aggro, doing that with out touching anything else would have been a huge buff in itself, but unfortunately that is not the case

Remlap12232 votes

Honestly, this. Like I mentioned above, it doesn't even have to be at the start of the game, just once she hits level 11. I think that with the new way it's coded right now, it's perfectly fine in lane, but the issues start cropping up outside of laning phase. I shouldn't have to rush Bloodthirster to keep her passive change in check, just like Garen shouldn't have had to not buy Sunfire just to keep his passive in check.

pE4CbxDPQO5 votes

Biiiig up vote from me. I mained her for the first half of last season and am going to hate seeing her identity destroyed without any real compensation. The ult looking amazing is not compensation.

Remlap12233 votes

I love their weasel words for justifying it. "We're shaving off "hidden power" for "clarity."" That's the sneakiest way I've heard them say they're going to nerf a champion but make them look pretty so they don't get backlash.

I'm getting some Deja Vu here. Veigar

Saianna4 votes

Even the BEST of the BEST ideas & feedback won't work.

Riot hates to listen. The only thing that they'd touch her anytime soon is when she'd become monster-OP. If she's far under mediocre then who cares? Definetely not Riot.

Terchio4 votes

If Grievous Wounds was her only power, that's a problem in and of itself. I mean, what if, by some crazy paradox, the enemy didn't actually use lifesteal? You be a dead bounty hunter if that's your only strength.

Also, she's getting a good bit in return. Crit viability with Q, Teemo movespeed boosts, higher AS on W, more reliable damage on E with stronger slow(though less slow duration)... How much does she actually need to wear off lifesteal that rarely means +20% of someone's lifebar (when focused correctly)?

Remlap12233 votes

If Grievous Wounds was her only power, that's a problem in and of itself. I mean, what if, by some crazy paradox, the enemy didn't actually use lifesteal? You be a dead bounty hunter if that's your only strength.

That's my entire fucking point. She's not in a "good spot" she's a "niche pick" at best and completely inferior to all other ADCs at worst. The grievous wounds were the only thing keeping her off the bench. She wasn't picked a whole lot already because of that reason. Now that that's gone, there's no reason to pick her.

Also, she's getting a good bit in return. Crit viability with Q, Teemo movespeed boosts, higher AS on W, more reliable damage on E with stronger slow(though less slow duration)... How much does she actually need to wear off lifesteal that rarely means +20% of someone's lifebar (when focused correctly)?

You see, the difference between Teemo and Miss Fortune is that Teemo can protect himself from getting his passive knocked off simply by activating his active portion of it. Miss Fortune cannot. While Teemo can charge your ass down after you flash away from his DOT, Miss Fortune just crawls ahead. You'll be at base before she's in a good enough position to try to engage.

That higher attack speed on her W? Lasts for only 3 hits. Tristana gets more speed for a longer time at no mana cost, and that ability is actually balanced. Don't go "muh Impure Shotz" either, because Tristana gets a RANGE ADVANTAGE over Miss Fortune.

I'm not complaining about her E, that's the one thing I stand by completely. Now I don't have to level it second anymore for it to not be useless.

The grievous wounds were her main utility tool. It gave her an edge in trades, as well as a tool against tanks so they couldn't just stack health regeneration and charge in and be able to keep regening to do it all over again (DEMACIA? Garen)

Remember patch 4.20? You know what was keeping Warwick from being played every game? Miss Fortune.

You know what's keeping Dr. Mundo, Volibear, Vlad, and Tryndamere in check right now? Miss Fortune.

You know what's going to happen once the on hit GW goes out the window? It's not going to be the League of Tanks, it's going to be the League of Drain Tanks.

Mark my words, once Miss Fortune gets gutted, Aatrox, Akali, Dr. Mundo, Volibear, Vlad, Warwick, and Tryndamere are all going to get a huge power spike.

People are going to start whining about all those champions again.

And I know what you're thinking, JUST PICK KAT OR VARUS!

Kat's GW are tied to her ultimate, and will probably be the first thing Riot removes once the QQs about Kat get big enough. The ultimate can also be cancelled by Aatrox, Volibear, and Warwick, and can be completely dodged by Vlad and Akali.

Varus' GW are tied to a small AOE that ends 0.25-0.3 seconds after they leave the area. All Aatrox has to do is dive out. All Akali has to do is dive out. All Dr. Mundo has to do is walk out. All Volibear has to do is walk out. All Vlad has to do is troll pool. All Warwick has to do is ult Varus. All Tryndamere has to do is spin out.

Until Riot has a clear plan for getting healing under control and implements it BEFORE they remove GW, these changes are going to hurt the game a lot more than they help.

Terchio3 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/champion-update/miss-fortune-struts-pbe

You see, the difference between Teemo and Miss Fortune is that Teemo can protect himself from getting his passive knocked off simply by activating his active portion of it.

And from the update:

W: Impure Shots

Passive: Miss Fortune’s basic attacks deal stacking bonus magic damage. Active: Miss Fortune gains bonus attack speed for a few seconds.

[New] Activating Impure Shots enables Strut.

So she DOES have Teemo movespeed burst.

That higher attack speed on her W? Lasts for only 3 hits.

3 hits? Even now it's over 3 hits, and that is lower attack speed. They lower the duration? I haven't heard anything about that..

blah blah blah, heal heal heal

Then get Morellonomicon. You'll get Grievous Wounds with every attack, and you won't even need to worry about duration. Or just admit that a 2.3k item that's otherwise gold efficient anyway can do the exact same thing that MF could do on an infinite duration, and then some. Those AoE procs...

Your problem is that the Grievous Wounds is all MF would do for you. If you can't make her AoE skills work for you, then MF isn't your gal. Also, she is supposed to be a harass beast, but I feel her harass is too easy to dodge... Even so, the whole point of Rain of Bullets is supposed to be a "aw naw naw, don't you get closer to me" button that you can punish the enemy for thinking they can straight-up trade with you. If you think that's underwhelming, well, that's your fault for using RoB as an initiate... It's clearly a counter-initiate.

Remlap12232 votes

So she DOES have Teemo movespeed burst.

Alright, you appear to be illiterate, so I'm going to highlight the parts that I want you to pay attention to. Coming straight from lolwiki:


#Strut

Innate: Miss Fortune gains 25 movement speed after_** NOT TAKING DAMAGE FOR FIVE SECONDS**_, which gradually increases to 70 movement speed over 5 seconds.


#Move Quick COST: 40 mana COOLDOWN: 17 Move Quick

Passive: Teemo gains increased movement speed. Damage from CHAMPIONS AND STRUCTURES will disable this bonus for 5 seconds.

Passive Movement Speed: 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26%

Active: For 3 seconds, Teemo doubles his passive movement speed bonus. While active, Move Quick's bonus CANNOT BE DISABLED VIA CHAMPION OR STRUCTURE DAMAGE.

Active Movement Speed: 20 / 28 / 36 / 44 / 52%


Because you seem to be a bit slow, I'm going to spell it out for you.

Teemo: Passive NO get knocked off from minion attacky tacky.

Miss For-tune: Passive GET knocked off from minion attacky tacky.


3 hits? Even now it's over 3 hits, and that is lower attack speed. They lower the duration? I haven't heard anything about that..

That's because you didn't read the end. I freaking put Teal Deer and everything and hyperlinked the changes. If you don't want to read, I can't do it for you.

Then get Morellonomicon. You'll get Grievous Wounds with every attack, and you won't even need to worry about duration. Or just admit that a 2.3k item that's otherwise gold efficient anyway can do the exact same thing that MF could do on an infinite duration, and then some. Those AoE procs...

Ok, first, Morello's only works with spell casts. So only 2 non-ultimate abilities and her ultimate work. Actually, her Q doesn't work because its coded as a ranged attack.

Second, name one ADC that builds Morello's. Don't say Corki, Corki would be an AP caster if it wasn't for his passive, and he still doesn't build it.

Your problem is that the Grievous Wounds is all MF would do for you.

No, you dense motherfucker, it is the most powerful thing she does for you, and it's the most unique thing she does for you. GW is what is keeping her a niche pick and that's the only thing. For all of her other abilities, other champions can do it better. Tristana has greater steroids and range, Twitch's passive on hit effects are more powerful, Vayne and Sivir have more reliable movespeed boosts, and Graves and Lucian have better poke and burst.

Kazaashi2 votes

{quoted}

Alright, you appear to be illiterate, so I'm going to highlight the parts that I want you to pay attention to. Coming straight from lolwiki:


#Strut

**Miss Fortune gains gradually increasing movement speed after not taking damage for a few seconds. [New] Strut now has increased scaling based on level, and only falls off when Miss Fortune takes direct, non-periodic damage. **

Fixed that for ya.

Here is a link to the real update: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/champion-update/miss-fortune-struts-pbe

LoL wiki should be taken with a grain of salt.


#Move Quick COST: 40 mana COOLDOWN: 17 Move Quick

Passive: Teemo gains increased movement speed. Damage from CHAMPIONS AND STRUCTURES will disable this bonus for 5 seconds.

Passive Movement Speed: 10 / 14 / 18 / 22 / 26%

Active: For 3 seconds, Teemo doubles his passive movement speed bonus. While active, Move Quick's bonus CANNOT BE DISABLED VIA CHAMPION OR STRUCTURE DAMAGE.

Active Movement Speed: 20 / 28 / 36 / 44 / 52%

Teemo: Passive NO get knocked off from minion attacky tacky.

I'mma copy/paste what you said:

While active, Move Quick's bonus _CANNOT BE DISABLED VIA CHAMPION OR STRUCTURE DAMAGE.

Last time I checked Minions aren't Structures or Champions, so they would disable Teemo's MS boost also.

Ok, first, Morello's only works with spell casts. So only 2 non-ultimate abilities and her ultimate work. Actually, her Q doesn't work because its coded as a ranged attack.

Her Q is a spell that will apply "On-Hit" effects [instead of Spell Effects] and can crit (after the change). It is not a ranged attack, just very similar.

Morellonomicon:

UNIQUE: Dealing magic damage to an enemy champion below 40% health inflicts Grievous Wounds icon grievous wounds to them for 4 seconds.

Impure shots apply Magic Dmg on -hit, so they would also apply GW if the target was under 40% health.

Riot is removing GW. You are going to have to get over it.

Remlap12231 votes

I'mma copy/paste what you said: While active, Move Quick's bonus _CANNOT BE DISABLED VIA CHAMPION OR STRUCTURE DAMAGE. Last time I checked Minions aren't Structures or Champions, so they would disable Teemo's MS boost also.

THAT'S THE ACTIVE PORTION! HE SPENDS MANA AND SHIT! EVEN HIS PASSIVE ISN'T REMOVED BY MINION AGGRO!

ACTIVE!!!!!!!: FOR 3 SECONDS, Teemo doubles his passive movement speed bonus. While active, Move Quick's bonus CANNOT BE DISABLED VIA CHAMPION OR STRUCTURE DAMAGE.

Passive: Teemo gains increased movement speed. Damage from CHAMPIONS AND STRUCTURES will disable this bonus for 5 seconds.

THERE IS NOTHING THERE THAT IMPLIES THAT MINIONS TAKE OFF HIS PASSIVE. THEY DON'T. I'VE PLAYED TEEMO BEFORE, I'VE CHECKED. TEEMO'S PASSIVE CAN ONLY BE REMOVED BY CHAMPION AND STRUCTURE DAMAGE, NOT MINIONS AND MONSTERS!!!

DO YOU SEE ANYWHERE IN THAT DESCRIPTION THAT SAYS ANY SOURCE OF DAMAGE KNOCKS OFF THE PASSIVE? BECAUSE I DON'T! NO, ALL I SEE IS CHAMPIONS. AND. STRUCTURES. THAT. IS. IT.

FUCKING MEANWHILE!!!

#Strut

Miss Fortune gains gradually increasing movement speed after NOT TAKING DAMAGE for a few seconds. [New] Strut now has increased scaling based on level, and only falls off when Miss Fortune takes direct, non-periodic damage.

LAST I CHECKED MINION AGGRO IS DIRECT, NON-PERIODITC DAMAGE! LAST I CHECKED MINIONS DON'T SHOOT TEEMO OR TWITCH DARTS!

Her Q is a spell that will apply "On-Hit" effects [instead of Spell Effects] and can crit (after the change). It is not a ranged attack, just very similar.

Ok. I want you pay reaaaal close attention to this ok? Can you read? Look verrrryyyy carefully.

Gangplank's Q is a spell.

Are you following me?

It is CODED as a melee auto attack.

Still there?

Ok. MF's Q is a spell.

Ok, now going to make the comparison, message me instantly if you start smelling copper because your brain worked too hard.

MF's Q is CODED as a ranged auto attack. It can be blocked by Counter Strike, Aegis, and Riposte.

Got it now?

It is a spell, but in League's code, for all intents and purposes, it is an empowered ranged auto attack, just like for all intents and purposes, Gangplank's Q is an empowered melee auto attack.

If you need me to explain it in dumber words, I'm right here.

Morellonomicon:

UNIQUE: Dealing magic damage to an enemy champion below 40% health inflicts Grievous Wounds icon grievous wounds to them for 4 seconds.

Impure shots apply Magic Dmg on -hit, so they would also apply GW if the target was under 40% health.

You're missing something:

+20% cooldown reduction +80 ability power +100% base mana regen

Explain to me how that is an appropriate build item on an ATTACK DAMAGE CARRY. Do you build Lucian with it? Graves? Rhetorical question, which means you don't need to answer.

Riot is removing GW. You are going to have to get over it.

That's not what I've been complaining about, but you know what, I give up. The boards cannot fucking read.

Kazaashi1 votes

{quoted}

While active, Move Quick's bonus _CANNOT BE DISABLED VIA CHAMPION OR STRUCTURE DAMAGE. Last time I checked Minions aren't Structures or Champions, so they would disable Teemo's MS boost also.

THAT'S THE ACTIVE PORTION! HE SPENDS MANA AND SHIT! EVEN HIS PASSIVE ISN'T REMOVED BY MINION AGGRO!

THERE IS NOTHING THERE THAT IMPLIES THAT MINIONS TAKE OFF HIS PASSIVE. THEY DON'T. I'VE PLAYED TEEMO BEFORE, I'VE CHECKED. TEEMO'S PASSIVE CAN ONLY BE REMOVED BY CHAMPION AND STRUCTURE DAMAGE, NOT MINIONS AND MONSTERS!!!

DO YOU SEE ANYWHERE IN THAT DESCRIPTION THAT SAYS ANY SOURCE OF DAMAGE KNOCKS OFF THE PASSIVE? BECAUSE I DON'T! NO, ALL I SEE IS CHAMPIONS. AND. STRUCTURES. THAT. IS. IT.

FUCKING MEANWHILE!!! [New] Strut now has increased scaling based on level, and only falls off when Miss Fortune takes direct, non-periodic damage.

LAST I CHECKED MINION AGGRO IS DIRECT, NON-PERIODITC DAMAGE! LAST I CHECKED MINIONS DON'T SHOOT TEEMO OR TWITCH DARTS!

First of all, no need to yell at people. Calm down. You are the only one upset here.

After looking at it on LoL wiki, I get what the ability does now. Your formatting threw it off in my brain. lol

Gangplank's Q is a spell.

Are you following me?

It is CODED as a melee auto attack.

Nope. It is coded as a spell that applies "On-Hit" effect, like a melee Auto Attack. Meaning it is similar to an AA, but not exactly the same, as Spell Shields will block it.

Ok. MF's Q is a spell.

Ok, now going to make the comparison, message me instantly if you start smelling copper because your brain worked too hard.

MF's Q is CODED as a ranged auto attack. It can be blocked by Counter Strike, Aegis, and Riposte.

That is literally the same thing as Gangplanks Q. It is coded as a spell that applies "On-Hit" effects, like a Ranged AA. Again, similar, but not the same as Spell Shields also block it

It is a spell, but in League's code, for all intents and purposes, it is an empowered ranged auto attack, just like for all intents and purposes, Gangplank's Q is an empowered melee auto attack.

If you need me to explain it in dumber words, I'm right here.

You're missing something:

+20% cooldown reduction +80 ability power +100% base mana regen

I didn't put that cause it wasn't needed. Everyone knows its an AP item.

Explain to me how that is an appropriate build item on an ATTACK DAMAGE CARRY. Do you build Lucian with it? Graves? Rhetorical question, which means you don't need to answer.

No champion is tied to a specific role.

Maybe after her rework, she starts to have viable APC builds? That would be pretty cool.

That's not what I've been complaining about, but you know what, I give up. The boards cannot fucking read.

Or you don't wanna listen. Either way.

Remlap12231 votes

Or you don't wanna listen. Either way.

I don't listen to stupid arguments.

"Maybe after her rework, she starts to have viable APC builds? That would be pretty cool."

Yeah that's a stupid argument. Her numbers are not geared towards being an APC. I've tried it before, and it's a troll build. She falls of harder that Pantheon if you build her like that.

But regardless, it's as simple as you're wrong and I'm right. Well, I mean, in terms of proper argumentation it is. Maybe I'll be proven wrong and MF ends up being OP, I don't care, the reason why I'm making this argument anyways is because I'm certain that it won't. This is a win-win situation for me. If MF is shit, I'm right, and I get to rub it in all of your faces. If I'm wrong, one of the champions I enjoy playing becomes viable again.

Terchio1 votes

All right, first off, none of this you would get from your actual post. These differences are not specified on the changes on the leagueoflegends.com site, and you labeled it as a damn Teal Deer, which frankly, makes the "oh my god, the sky is falling" sentiment all the more understandable. You see, we don't label our Teal Deers around here as being some type of comment board skirmish you likely put up there as a trophy. Nonetheless, I see some of the discomfort now. But only some.

Miss fortune DOES get another speed boost, though admittedly nothing along Teemo levels. My page had no verification of that, and I haven't even seen anything on Surrenderat20, so I assumed it wasn't out there. However, Miss Fortune in turn gets most of the uniqueness of her kit, her on-hit effect, out of it, so that's already a somewhat loaded skill. My only problem with it is that it doesn't seem to scale on level-up at all, and this doesn't fix that. But oh well.

The rest, however, is incorrect. Grievous Wounds on Morellonomicon DOES proc on autoattacks, because it procs on any magic damage. It is NOT a spell effect, and it will proc, thanks to Impure Bullets. It has since always. It may not be an ADC type item, but for 2.3k, I think you can afford something that was her only advantage in her kit. Or just play anybody else with it, because everyone can proc it on autoattacks with the 5th tier Offensive mastery, anyway. Yes, everyone. Sunfire Cape works, too, or Statikk Shiv, or Wit's End, or Nashor's. Whoa, all the choices.

And the rest is basically, "You're wrong, because, " and then everything I said. You don't think she's any good outside of GW, and therefore she is useless. That would actually be incorrect (especially if they fixed Double-up in any meaningful way... still to be seen), and so if you think that's the only thing useful in her kit, then have fun not playing her. That is all.

Remlap12231 votes

All right, first off, none of this you would get from your actual post

You would, but only if you read. I know, reading is hard.

These differences are not specified on the changes on the leagueoflegends.com site, and you labeled it as a damn Teal Deer, which frankly, makes the "oh my god, the sky is falling" sentiment all the more understandable

Yes, that's the point. Riot is parading Miss Fortune as SLEEK, SEXY, AND WITH A NOT USELESS KIT, but the #1 issue that is holding her back hasn't been addressed meaningfully. OIh cool, she won't lose her passive if she's shielded, so does that mean that you'll stick a shield in her kit so that it won't be knocked off minion aggro? No? Then what's the fucking point?!

And then we get the bombshell dropped on us (well not me, I knew her GW was going to get axed, but I was hoping for meaningful compensation buffs to be added, not this festering pile of pointlessness) that the thing that mad her viable (the grievous wounds) is getting axed.

So yeah, when a champion that I play a lot who is already struggling gets what made them playable yanked out of their kit, yeah, the "omg the sky is falling" sentiment is warranted.

Miss fortune DOES get another speed boost, though admittedly nothing along Teemo levels. My page had no verification of that, and I haven't even seen anything on Surrenderat20, so I assumed it wasn't out there. However, Miss Fortune in turn gets most of the uniqueness of her kit, her on-hit effect, out of it, so that's already a somewhat loaded skill. My only problem with it is that it doesn't seem to scale on level-up at all, and this doesn't fix that. But oh well.

So the burden of proof is on the person being argued against, not the person making the argument? Can't say I haven't seen that before.

It may not be an ADC type item, but for 2.3k, I think you can afford something that was her only advantage in her kit.

Last I checked Vayne didn't have to buy an AP item and forego a defensive item to be able to chunk tanks. Why the hell does MF have to do that to just be able to do what she is doing now? Makes no fucking sense. It's damned if I do and damned if I don't. Same shit is what killed Eve and Elise.

And the rest is basically, "You're wrong, because, " and then everything I said.

How arguments work. I give my evidence, you bring your own evidence. Someone is not commuting to evidence, and it's not me.

You don't think she's any good outside of GW, and therefore she is useless.

Nice straw man. No, I said that literally everyone does her job better in some regards, and grievous wounds was her own unique edge over her competition. Now that that's gone, it's an uphill battle. Why bother taking MF as a duelist when Twitch does it better? Why bother taking her as a burst caster when Graves can do it better? Why bother taking her as a teamfight AOE ADC when Sivir does it better? It doesn't matter if she can insta kill a Vayne, because if every other carry can insta kill a Vayne, but do it easier, why would you take MF?

That would actually be incorrect (especially if they fixed Double-up in any meaningful way... still to be seen), and so if you think that's the only thing useful in her kit, then have fun not playing her. That is all.

Right, and I'm the one with attitude. Because the champ I like gets something important out of her kit that made her viable removed, I should just deal with it or simply not play her. Yeah, try telling that to all the Cassiopeia players who got their champ reworked without any warning whatsoever and made the champ impossible to balance, and therefore nerfed into purgatory with Yorick.

Terchio1 votes

You would, but only if you read. I know, reading is hard.

No, I read,

Teal Deer: This is a response to what I found on lolwiki for the proposed Miss Fortune changes. Just look up her name. Remlap1223 is not very happy right now, in fact, I'd argue that for how equally awesome they made Gangplank, they made Miss Fortune equally shit.

and then I thought, "Wow, I'm not going to waste my time reading thick walls of text this guy shot some other dude. That would waste my time". Little did I know, you had info on there that even Surrenderat20 didn't have, but that's fine, you go ahead and read every thread on this site. I know you will.

So the burden of proof is on the person being argued against, not the person making the argument? Can't say I haven't seen that before.

Well, if the proof isn't there, it should be displayed in a "oh, by the way, this is what I'm going off of" fashion. This information is not on Leagueoflegends.com, nor typical PBE sites, so it very much makes me wonder just how accurate it is. For instance,

Double Up

Secondary targeting paradigm improved (again). New Effect: If the first shot kills the target, the damage to the second target is increased by 150%. Uses the crit animation.

And yet I'm hearing everywhere that Double Up now crits. Is that a mis-representation? Which is right? My money says neither of us knows whether Miss Fortune has been compensated fairly, as these notes very possibly are incomplete, and therefore some random PBE user just put what they found on their own game. You don't know her compensation yet.

Last I checked Vayne didn't have to buy an AP item and forego a defensive item to be able to chunk tanks. Why the hell does MF have to do that to just be able to do what she is doing now? Makes no fucking sense. It's damned if I do and damned if I don't. Same shit is what killed Eve and Elise.

No, but AP items sure don't hurt a champion that actually scales with it, like MF herself. Or Kog. Or Varus. For 2.3k, they can have MF's sole treasured possession, which

I said that literally everyone does her job better in some regards, and grievous wounds was her own unique edge over her competition. Now that that's gone, it's an uphill battle. Why bother taking MF as a duelist when Twitch does it better? Why bother taking her as a burst caster when Graves can do it better? Why bother taking her as a teamfight AOE ADC when Sivir does it better? It doesn't matter if she can insta kill a Vayne, because if every other carry can insta kill a Vayne, but do it easier, why would you take MF?

is not actually her sole treasured possession in the world, I guess. Then why did you make this thread? She's getting a damage boost conditionally on her Q, a random rework on how it targets, a movement speed improvement of some type, condensed E power, and you're whining about that small little trinket that doesn't make her anything weak anyways, just proficient in everything? Eve and Elise didn't die because they were proficient at everything, make no mistake, I main Elise. They died because the few things they were proficient at generally everyone can do better, and Fizz alone does far better. He has an execute, high mobility without restrictions, invulnerability, a passive that actually helps tanking directly, about as much burst as Elise has DPS... He even has skillshot CC, and though it's not as hard of CC, it sure has a decent area. Make no mistake, Miss Fortune is no Elise. You can't point to a champion and say She has no advantage over that champion in the way you can with Elise, and if you can, it's because you don't utilize MF properly, Simple as that.

And who said anything about a 'tude? I just said you're crying, that's a step down from a 'tude.

And then we get the bombshell dropped on us (well not me, I knew her GW was going to get axed, but I was hoping for meaningful compensation buffs to be added, not this festering pile of pointlessness) that the thing that mad her viable (the grievous wounds) is getting axed.

So yeah, when a champion that I play a lot who is already struggling gets what made them playable yanked out of their kit, yeah, the "omg the sky is falling" sentiment is warranted.

Ah yeah, there it was...

TehNACHO3 votes

{quoted}

I'll bet all of my skins (all of them except secret agent and captain) that these new changes will drop her below a 45% win rate.

To be fair, this tends to happen with almost all reworks, even decent ones like Sion.

Give it like 2 weeks or so to let player skill settle, then check.

Remlap12232 votes

Give it like 2 weeks or so to let player skill settle, then check.

I don't need two weeks. I am a Miss Fortune main. If I'm saying these changes are going to make her awful, these changes are going to make her awful.

Battlecast Sona4 votes

Hi, I actually played new MF. Your entire perception of MF is incorrect, and your perception of these changes is also incorrect.

If you played MF for GW before, you were playing her for the wrong reasons. You pick MF because she has a RIDICULOUS laning phase, winning trades with almost every single carry (with or without GW). This has been enhanced by double up last hits dealing 150% damage on the second hit (for reference, with a BFS at level 5 of Q this is about 1/3rd to 1/2 of someone's health, depending on whether you're winning your lane or going even).

Her W loses GW but now reapplies strut. This means in scenarios where you know you won't take damage for a few seconds, you can instantly give yourself full stacks of strut and run away. I think Rito needs to make W protect her strut for the duration of the AS boost, but it's still in iteration.

Her E does the same damage and slow but over shorter time, not much to say here (less good for vision control, better for fighting).

Her ultimate now does bonus damage per shot based on how many stacks of impure shots is on the target (while still applying a stack with each shot), increasing the magic damage per shot that her ultimate currently does.

Literally the only change that MF needs right now on new MF is an AD ratio on her ult and for Q crits to prioritize champions. GW is far from the best thing on MF's kit.

Remlap12233 votes

If you played MF for GW before, you were playing her for the wrong reasons.

My reasons for playing her are my own. Yes, she's a lane bully, yes I enjoy her because of her lane bullying, but what sets her above other lane bullies like Varus, Tristana, and Corki to a degree is her grievous wounds. That's what makes her different than Tristana, different than Twitch, and different than Vayne.

Her W loses GW but now reapplies strut. This means in scenarios where you know you won't take damage for a few seconds, you can instantly give yourself full stacks of strut and run away. I think Rito needs to make W protect her strut for the duration of the AS boost, but it's still in iteration.

Cool, so her passive gets reapplied and then knocked off instantly. And that solves what?

Her E does the same damage and slow but over shorter time, not much to say here (less good for vision control, better for fighting).

Not arguing that, E is in a much better spot then before, don't need 3 seconds of vision, 2 is more than enough.

Her ultimate now does bonus damage per shot based on how many stacks of impure shots is on the target (while still applying a stack with each shot), increasing the magic damage per shot that her ultimate currently does.

I assume that comes with a nerf to the base damage? That's not good if I'm trying to hard engage the enemy team, it makes me more of a priority to stun, suppress, or silence.

Literally the only change that MF needs right now on new MF is an AD ratio on her ult and for Q crits to prioritize champions. GW is far from the best thing on MF's kit.

It's the only thing on her kit that makes her worthwhile to being picked right now. Literally every other thing another champion does better.

Passive movespeed? Sivir and Vayne both do it better.

Q poke? Lucian and Graves do it better.

Attack speed steroid? Tristana does it better.

On hit effects? Corki and Twitch do it better.

AOE slow? Varus does it better (BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY HAS FUCKING GRIEVOUS WOUNDS STILL!)

Cone ult for tons of damage? Graves does it WAAAAY better.

Literally the only thing sperating Miss Fortune from the other ADCs was the fact that she applied greivous wounds on hit. Now that that's gone, she's a jack of all trades and a master of none. Her identity as being the dirty magic damage shredder is gone. She's now just an inferior ADC that does nothing better than what the rest of them can do. Her unique niche as being an anti-healer was already hit when Soraka's ultimate ignores GW (which I'm all for as a Raka player because it makes her ult not useless), but now it's completely gone. This doesn't just hit her teamfighting, or laning phase, or late game, it hits all 3.

Remember the last time Riot blanket nerfed a champion because he did too much? He was at a 38% win rate for two patches. Azir

Riot is doing the exact same thing. You know the old saying, "those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it?" Riot is repeating it.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, she's a lane bully, yes I enjoy her because of her lane bullying, but what sets her above other lane bullies like Varus, Tristana, and Corki to a degree is her grievous wounds.

Varus has grievous wounds.

Remlap12231 votes

{quoted}

Varus has grievous wounds.

In an area of effect, not an on hit from a steroid. But I suppose that's a moot point now anyways since Riot has flat out said they're phasing out gw anyways.

Only difference is on Varus it makes one of his spells shit if they take it out. On Miss Fortune, it removes any dueling ability that she had.

Rueian1 votes

They did possibly buff her Q

Khell DarkWolf1 votes

Personally, I'd like to see Double-Up [Q] made into a mini-graves ult after looking at Captain Miss Fortune's Animation particles. Fire a cannon shot and then spreads an explosion of shrapnel behind.

Cone indicators are already there, just VFX changes with a code change and its done. It would even be okay if it was changed to a skill shot if needed.

But in all honesty, Strut should really just go and be replaced with something else. It is the most aggravating passive to deal with because once you get momentum going and you get love tapped by a minion or clipped by something you feel like you're under the effects of wither slow.

As an MF main, I agree with you on the other points.

1000angrybees1 votes

Didnt they intend on removing grievous wounds entirely? I remember that being a thing they wanted to do. I dont know if I support that, but it was definitely stated.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

now this is off topic but since you're a MF main would item 3078 be good on her?

Remlap12231 votes

I think it's the best zeal item on her. Synergizes well with both of her passives, does tons of burst, improves the damage on her E and ultimate.

If you're building Black Cleaver on her for a tank heavy team, forgo that for Statik Shiv because you're already getting Rage's passive.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

ok thanks

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