I get that he has to get up close to do it, but it's getting to the point where no amount of armor and health is going to save you from his two autos + QR.
His Q alone at lvl 5 does 440 just with base damage plus 195% of his bonus AD. His ult alone does 550 + 150% of his bonus AD. and his autos do up to 360% of his total AD at the most, 150% of his total AD at the least.
La Barbotte102 votescompensating for not having a cigar
Azteryz7 voteswhen comments upvotes are higher than original thread
http://www.readsleeprepeat.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/awed-Simon-Cowell.gif
I Miss Cannon17 votesHe just has a very good build. And with this forums logic, he doesn't deserve to get "sejuani'd" ;^)
shadecrapper13 votesHet did get nerfed, just people found a really good build for him.
Bots Whilst High10 votesHow about we talk about miss fortunes rank 1 instamelt Ult that is "fine." 1100 damage with a Dorans. Any support cc plus her slow and at least one person dies in the bot lane.
Shadow Hazard2 voteswhat really hurts is the scaling with crit, the damage needs to either be lowered of the crit synergy removed
Lugg9 votesHe does WAY too much damage for how hard he is to kill.
Samflash323 votes
does WAY too much damage for how hard she is to kill.
Lugg7 votesCan't argue with that either.
foinhas1 votesfiora reminds me of season 1/2 irelia...
beatable in lane but unstopable after the first item
Philo+HoG irelia was just wrong, man :'(
KarKzz1 votesAD scaling %hp true damage is healthy for the game -riot2015
"Fiora is a duelist, so she get lot of mobility, and a parry that stop magic, and even reflect it. Since she is a duelist, she also get % Hp true damage,just to be sure that you can't duel her. Thanks to her survivability and AoE heal, she can duel the whole teamfight."
The Deckowner8 votesconsider graves a ranged talon.
Brockinroll5 votesHe's doing too much, I can be a 5k sion with 250 armor etc. and I died within a few seconds
LordGeovanni1 votesthats almost any one built damage with some type of penetration item but thats besides the point
MunchCrunchLunch5 votesI bought a thornmail the other day against him. and I was still getting 3 shotted. its ridiculous.
Kingsgrave21 votesI bought a thornmail the other day against him. and I was still getting 3 shotted. its ridiculous.
Most of his damage is from abilities, Thornmail wouldn't help much
MunchCrunchLunch14 votesMost of his damage is from abilities, Thornmail wouldn't help much
i am talking about defense. not the reflected damage. that shit was nerfed too hard nobody cares about hte thornmail passive.
Arsenic Sulfur7 votes
Ok
Shrek Luigi2 votes"Wow, I bought the wrong armor item against Graves on a non-specified champ and he did damage to me!! So unfair!!!!!"
RisenDarkKnight4 votesThornmail gives 100 armor. That's the most armor you can get from any one item. What other armor item is better? 
: gives less armor and graves doesn't care about the AS slow, 
: prob a little better but it is more expenseive, gives less armor, and the crit reduction may not matter depending on grave's build, 
: only half as much armor so it's only better if the champ has no other hp items yet. Those are the only big 3 armor items. There is no anti ad caster armor item. Sure building a randuins or deadmans would be better than just a thornmail, but a thornmail plus a couple ruby crystals would be better than a deadmans for only a couple hundred more.
Shrek Luigi2 votesOn the flipside, why do you think an item that reflects damage based on the number of AAs one gets pegged with would be an appropriate buy against someone who AAs less than other marksmen?
Unless the enemy team is gutoaded with AA hypercarries then thornmail is a junk item, period. Yes, it gives more armor than any other singular item, but two HP+Armor items are going to be better than Thornmail+Whatever 99% of the time.
And that's totally beside the fact that, in the Rock-Paper-Scissors of League, sustained damage pretty much always beats tanks. By the time any ADC has a LW item up they are more than suited to take on champions who stack armor. Graves may have nice burst damage when he unloads his skills, but he's still an ADC and the same general rules apply.
Voluug132 votesUnless you are 
.
Alphadef4 votesOne of these things is not like the other...
Voluug131 votesShhhhhh
La Barbotte1 votes
he was on his way
High55 votesPlease nerf 
... wait, this wasn't a nerf blanc thread?
foinhas4 voteswait until you get to see jhin
B6WS TSW991 votesjhin does a lot of dmg true, but he has 3 abitlites very hard to hit, and he is squishy with no mobility
Count Zubat3 votesThe worst thing anybody can do to other player is to pick Graves top against melee champion... You complain that Vladimir is top lane ranged cancer? Well, at least he doesn't burst your ass at level 3. Imo, Graves is a bit like LeBlanc, but instead of ridiculous mobility (he has a dash, but it's not as bad as LB) he has amazing wave clear.
The Bearded Bard11 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UXBby7KA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-01-23T14:25:35.208+0000)
The worst thing anybody can do to other player is to pick Graves top against melee champion... You complain that Vladimir is top lane ranged cancer? Well, at least he doesn't burst your ass at level 3. Imo, Graves is a bit like LeBlanc, but instead of ridiculous mobility (he has a dash, but it's not as bad as LB) he has amazing wave clear.
I take issue with his jungle. Not only is it insanely safe with the knock back and aoe, he clears so fast that I've yet to see a game where he's not crazy ahead in levels and gold.
LF Annie3 votesif graves did less dmg he would be useless. he has no cc,he cant damage over walls, he cant push towers when enemies are around, and he cant have a cigar.
damage is his thing, leave it be.
FistOfSharkiesha2 votesThe problem is he's clearing the jungle without losing hp and he's dueling some of the best melee duelists in the game. He has massive burst and sustained damage and 2 escapes at all points of the game.
LF Annie1 votesi never said he was balanced or healthy, but just nerfing his damage isnt going to put him in a healthy spot. he needs more tuning in multiple wways.
FistOfSharkiesha3 votesFor having 425 range and being fairly mobile he needs damage reduction. If his kit remains how it is, there's no getting around it. 2 dashes, massive base damage and AD ratios, a slow and nearsight. He doesn't pay for his damage or mobility at all.
LF Annie1 votesyou're telling me that losing his place as a marksman in bot lane wasnt enough, you want him to be useless too? he is not op.
FistOfSharkiesha1 votesNo I'm not telling you that, I already told you what needed to happen, it's pathetic how stubborn you are. He's far more problematic than Kindred ever was and Kindred got nerfed. As it is right now, Graves is walking around as a 425 range mobile juggernaut.
LF Annie1 votesi feel like you're problem with graves isnt him, but the way you go about playing against him.
The Bearded Bard3 votesWell yeah. I do have a problem with a champion whose counterplay is 'don't be a melee champion'. Who can quickly clear the jungle without losing any health.
As for 'losing his place as a bot lane marksman' not only is that untrue, but he gained a place as a top tier jungler and top laner. He still works bot lane, it's just silly to go against ranged champions with ones with less range, he still works with aggressive melee supports like Braum, Ali, Thresh, all of who are very popular right now.
weeaboomer2 votesThey should get rid of the instant detonation with walls.
The Bearded Bard10 votes[{quoted}](name=Tobi Only Sways,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UXBby7KA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-23T09:35:04.846+0000)
They should get rid of the instant detonation with walls.
They should just lower his damage output, especially on his spells.
Feathermane2 votesWell, we have to get used to it. EVERYONE does a 'little' too much damage. Tanks can assassinate squishies, supports can 1HKO carries, Jax can one-shot any targetable object on the map (provided he stacks his ult+rageblade+mastery), Rengar is a walking 1 for 1 kill trade, assassins can annihilate any health bar through a Lulu ultimate, MF and Lucian literally kill people with 1 ability from full health. If you have so many things that can blow through an entire health bar, how can you tell if what Graves does is too much? Does it really matter that he does 200 damage more that it takes to kill you?
Quort2 votesThat's... Actually a pretty interesting point. Even traditional supports can still chunk for massive amounts of a carry's health. Mage supports will straight up 1v2 the enemy bot lane.
Tanks deal massive amounts of damage. ChoGath, Mundo, Volibear, Nautilus... The list goes on!
There's just so much damage. 0_0
Alëk2 votesI've found that a Graves with a Red buff is a fucking monster. I mean sure you can say that any ADC with a red buff is but graves has AoE AA's that can hit multiple people and apply red buffs to all of them. Its huge in teamfights for shredding the enemy and it gives him huge chase potential. This is a huge reason why jungle graves is so op.
KetiaX2 votesI just don't like how if his Q lands on wall it immediately deals full damage. When that happens, the damage is obnoxious. When it doesn't though it's okay, I mean you have full 1.5 seconds to dodge em.
Derfel2 votesNah that 57% winrate he has is just a prank
Streetlight Man1 votesGraves is fine
All the adcs have their pros and cons. Just gotta deal with it
buckeyebob455 votesNow i'm not saying that I know a way to balance him or anything, but if Champion.gg is correct, Graves currently has the highest win ratio in the top lane, jungle and as adc. I'm not so sure a single champion should be that high up on 3 of the 5 positions.
Bodkins Odds1 votesAll of his stuff does about 5-10% more damage than it probably should. His kit's in a good place now, he just needs some number tweaks.
JQKAndrei1 votesthat's the point of the whole thread
