PSA: If you forget smite, you are no longer a jungler

The Bearded Bard·Nov 1, 2017·132 votes·6,969 views

Grab a support item and go top lane. You literally cannot viably jungle without smite, because you don't get the increased experience that allows you to stay relevant. The game is still able to be salvaged if you play smart and forgo jungling entirely, but you're wasting everyone's time by trying to jungle without smite.

EDIT: 'Forgo jungle entirely' was a bit over the top. Level one you should be take both the buffs, giving bot lane adc the red and top lane the blue to appease their complaints about you being in their lane. After that stick to top lane til you're a decent level, let's say four, then clear the jungle and roam for a gank. That's what I mean by play smart.

125 Comments

KVbqbFsC8eNov 1, 201729 votes

Thats just going to make your toplaner underleveled. If you forget smite you should just leave the game in Champ select/Loading screen and let your team remake.

Whosa Is YousaNov 1, 201716 votes

Exactly. Or just afk farm untill an item or 2 and hope for the best. Your top laner shouldnt have to suffer because your junglers a moron.

Søn oƒ EchidnæNov 2, 201710 votes

By this logic, every possible misstep in the game a player can experience, makes them a moron.

ADC missed a skill shot? What a fucking moron.

Support misses a vital stun that would set up a kill or save a retreating player? What a fucking moron.

JG accidentally smites the wrong champion because the enemy team is too close together in a hectic skirmish? what a fucking moron

The game creates thousands of opportunities, but each of those opportunities has a brutal, other side to its coin toss. Slight misevaluations or mere degrees or pixels make the difference between good and bad plays.

Being on the end of a bad play or forgetting something doesn't make you a moron.

You yourself have your share of fuck ups in game, and if you try to claim otherwise, you're full of yourself. No one is perfect, not even championship tier players.

Glory ln DeathNov 2, 20172 votes

Isn't this how League works, though? Anything less than Faker-level play is moronic. At leadt, that's what I've picked up from Solo Q.

XonraNov 2, 20174 votes

I mean, if you forgot smite, you are dumb. That's just the long and short of it. I did it once in a normal game and I was dumb for doing it. It really isn't hard to pay attention for like a friggin minute and turn off the youtube video to see champ select. Just click smite when you see you are jungle, and then boom, don't have to pay attention anymore.

It really IS super simple and no reason to not do it. It's not hard to pay attention. Missing a spell is not the same as not taking smite when you had PLENTY of time to see you were jungle during champ select.

NOHITDETECTIO2KNov 2, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FFH3Zzpd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-01T23:53:50.023+0000)

Thats just going to make your toplaner underleveled. If you forget smite you should just leave the game in Champ select/Loading screen and let your team remake.

So risk punishment because of a mistake that can easily be rectified in game? Don't think so.

KVbqbFsC8eNov 2, 20175 votes

The punishment would never be more than waiting 5 minutes before each game for 5 games, or even just a warning.

Why punish your teammates for your mistake?

XurrealNov 2, 201721 votes

You can win games without smite if you know how to play.

People do it all of the time, sometimes intentionally for another more useful spell to their kit.

If you play around in the practice tool long enough, you'll figure it out.

Heavens... we had to learn how to do it WITHOUT the practice tool.

Sewer SideNov 2, 201754 votes

People did it, sure, but that was back when EXP wasn't tied to jungle items.

"Back then" smite was needed to just secure dragon/baron.

Trying to jungle without smite now will get you invaded by anyone with a braincell and knows you'll die by your second camp because you're still level 1 and don't get the smite on-heal effect.

Terrible advice btw

XurrealNov 2, 20178 votes

People still do. Figure it out. Its really not that hard. Go in the practice tool.

It pays to be prepared when the moment comes.

IcyPepperNov 2, 201718 votes

I want to disagree with you, but having a mindset open to adaptation is healthy.

It's like leashing. Everyone expects to get a leash, but there are times when you don't and you need to adjust on the fly.

Having no smite is suboptimal, but you need to adjust to the circumstances to thrive whether it's by OP's suggestion or yours.

ShinkoMinoriNov 2, 201715 votes

No jungler needs to get a leash, leashes help clear jungle really fast and it doesn't hurt the laners to help because the minion wave will be just in time to last hit. A jungler that cant solo a camp is a bad jungler.

Having no smite makes it impossible to jungle for lack of exp and clear. Xurreal doesn't know what he is talking about

XurrealNov 2, 20174 votes

Ooooo called out.

I do. I just don't have the account to prove it to you.

It sucks. And you are going to be behind. But this game isn't about raw power and stats. Its about decision making.

Decision making is the real power we hold. It's how we outplay and how we win games.

EDIT: I am NOT saying that I prefer not going smite.

item 1402 + Evelynn <3

But there are times when I slip up for whatever reason and people are telling me to hurry up and quit so they can remake and be the good guy.

Well sometimes, you leave too much and riot says that you're being bad.

So then you just say "Screw it. I'mma just outplay"

And you DO that!

ŚtrongMentalNov 2, 20173 votes

to be completely honest your first response was on point @xurreal, this response is a lil bad...

you can win games easily without smite BUT ONLY if you know what your doing
smite is literally JUST for baron//dragon, BUT ----- if your someone like nunu, forget smite you have a built in one, clearspeed + ganking will get you the exp you need to keep yourself relevant to the game (this is not limited to nunu, there are about 10 champions you can use without smite and stay relevant to the game...)
with the season ending that # is going to rise dramatically

just dont get it twisted, having smite and the item to go with it will always net you a better game in a long run...

XurrealNov 2, 20172 votes

Okay then. If it helps, I'll tell you what my Stratus when this happens to me.

Build meta golem focus on getting your team kills instead of yourself.

Every time your non smite spell is active and ready, Take It to the mid lane.

Ward your jungle. In mid-game, don't even bother trying to collect camps, they are more useful to your team anyways.

Dominate The Vision game. Only go hard when you are with your team until you are well built.

This works for me and I have great success when I slip up and grab exhaust instead of smite. Now I understand it's a bad situation, but it's salvageable. You can still have a good game and get honors at the end of the game even if you forgot smite.

I personally saw a gold 3 tier intentionally go exhaust ignite in the jungle and go legendary. If you don't believe me that's fine. But I already know because I've seen it and experienced it myself. So if I can't prove it to you I can't prove it to you, you just have to see it for yourselves.

HeeroTXNov 2, 20179 votes

I wasn't thinking you were 'wrong' originally... but OP said "if you forget smite, don't jg, just play support" you argued with him that you're ok (as a jungler) without smite. And now you reveal that your smiteless jungle strat is: Play as a support.

What was the point of this argument?

[sg-lux-2]

AgentBlackNov 2, 201714 votes

Lol? Smite lets you sustain in the jungle, secure your camps against invades, secure objectives throughout the game...show me an experienced player who found a "more useful spell" for jungling than Smite. Even you never do it! You sometimes trade Flash for another spell, which can be worth it, but Smite? Inconceivable.

I have to agree with Sewer Side that this is terrible and misleading advice. I hope no new players come across this.

GrymmstrikeNov 2, 20173 votes

You keep using that word, I do not think it means...Oh wait, yeah, you were on point with the word usage. Carry on!

Friendly RamNov 2, 201715 votes

Nunu NUNUNUnununuNUNUNUnununuNUNUNUnununuNUNUNUnununuNUNUNUnununuNUNUNUnununuNUNUNUnununu

NaqelNov 2, 201711 votes

Tying jungling to smite entirely was a mistake.

Sun Wu RyuumokuNov 2, 20171 votes

Wasn't it always like this ?

NaqelNov 3, 20173 votes

"Mandatory-smite-items-or-you-re-behind-a-duo-lane-on-experience" is a season 5 or 6 invention, aimed at eliminating the poaching benefits a blue-side bot-lane could get from taking mini-golems.

Krugs (mini-golem replacement) being annoying split-so-it-takes-forever monsters, all monsters spawning only ~15 seconds before lane minions make first contact, and smite items giving out bonus XP, are all changes that are also targeted at eliminating that unfair advantage.

Essentially, RIOT really didn't want blue side bot-lane to win lane by default every game, so they changed everything possible to make poaching from your own jungle hinder you more than it benefited. The collateral on that was mandatory Smite, and a very strict itemization path for junglers.

420 gramsNov 1, 20177 votes

Except not because then you're not only giving up all that gold and xp in the jungle for yourself, you invite the other team to take it. Sure they'll still he behind, but if they took a combat summoner they could gank very effectively.

The Bearded BardNov 1, 201726 votes

Lemme know how well that level 3 gank goes when the rest of the game is at levels 6-8.

Also, enjoy being fodder for the enemy jungler. You think just because you're there they won't take it? They'll kill you then take your jungle at their leisure.

Jungling without smite is not an option.

Whosa Is YousaNov 1, 20172 votes

Why the hell would you gank rather than continue farming if you didnt have smite?

The Bearded BardNov 1, 20179 votes

He brought up that bringing an extra combat spell would make ganks 'very effective'. I gave reason for my disagreement.

Sewer SideNov 2, 20171 votes

What do you do after you clear the jungle? You can clear it much faster than it respawns, which means you're sitting in there not getting gold/exp.

Whosa Is YousaNov 2, 20174 votes

You're not going to clear the jg faster than it respawns with no smite before you have a full item.

420 gramsNov 2, 20172 votes

You shouldn't fall that far behind even without smite unless you don't know how to kite, which most players who are jungling should have learned.

The Bearded BardNov 2, 201710 votes

Knowing how to kite isn't going to get you bonus experience.

Sewer SideNov 2, 20176 votes

There are like 3 ranged junglers. Melee can't kite them that effectively (like -2 hits at best early game).

It takes almost a full (non scuttler) clear to reach level 4 WITH the exp boost. You barely hit 3 without it and you've probably forced to back after Blue -> Wolves -> Red

Bears Dont CareNov 2, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FFH3Zzpd,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-11-02T00:04:15.083+0000)

You shouldn't fall that far behind even without smite unless you don't know how to kite, which most players who are jungling should have learned.

The jungling items give you bonus exp. It does not matter how well you kite, it doesnt make up for such a huge loss.

Janna Me FiddleNov 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FFH3Zzpd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-01T23:46:18.347+0000)

Except not because then you're not only giving up all that gold and xp in the jungle for yourself, you invite the other team to take it. Sure they'll still he behind, but if they took a combat summoner they could gank very effectively.

Erm, you do know that as soon as you build stalkers blade you get chilling smite which is ranged slow on champions with a much more consistent uptime than exhaust and also deals a bit of damage too right?

The only time you'll run with an off-summoner spell is Shaco, and it'll likely be Ignite/Teleport and Smite.

You always want smite.

420 gramsNov 3, 20171 votes

Yes, smite is better on junglers. Nobody is arguing something different.

StarGuardianWeebNov 2, 20177 votes

Riot should just tie the damn spell to the role tbh

HupsisNov 2, 20173 votes

It is already tied to the role in the form of a summoner spell.

But yes, a more official way to tie it to the role would be nice. Remove it as a summoner spell, make it part of jungle items and let only one person per team buy jungle items.

ElikainNov 2, 20172 votes

Well, that wouldn't fix anything. What if my support decides to troll me and buys a jungle item so that i can't do that anymore? Then they proceed to the lane and support like nothing ever happened while i'm literally eating s*hit without an item that enables me to jungle normally.

SS Smite is pretty much the norm. There's no reason to change this. Otherwise you could request the same thing for Flash being almost mandatory on every champion so why not tie it to the Boots and have one more option on for the SS choices?

Considering that in the new runes you can literally pick a keystone that lets you change SS on the fly, this isn't needed. Smite is an exception because if you start a game without one, even if you replace something for Smite, you can't buy the jungle items at all.

YoungFarmerNov 2, 20176 votes

I think it would be smarter to actually go into the Jg and try. If you go top lane you: -Deny experience to your toplaner. -Give the enemy jg full map control and pressure. -Give the enemy jg free buffs.

so essentially you end up with two lanes behind and a super fed enemy jg where you could try to jg and still take camps and not completely fuck your toplaner, give up map control, and give free gold to the enemy team.

BlåbæretNov 2, 20174 votes

Ten times better than playing 4v5 which is essentially what you're doing if you choose to jungle.

You're ignoring the benefits of going toplane and only listing the downsides - enemy top won't get any farm and you don't really fall behind significantly, especially if enemy top can't farm.

Søn oƒ EchidnæNov 2, 20176 votes

This isn't always applicable though. A few games ago I got stuck as jg in solo queue, and it not being my go to position, I completely forgot smite.

No biggie. I grabbed a coin and went to support top as vi. Didn't kill a single minion. Beat them down so my laner could kill them and harrassed the enemy top hard.

Wasn't okay though. My top laner rage quit and gave the lane away within 10 minutes. According to him and the rest of my team, who also refused to leash, I was supposed to legit Level 1, jg with no leash, and without entering anyone's lane, ever.

At level 5 I promptly entered jg and smashed all my farm without tedium. Not possible with just any jg and no smite, but certainly possible if someone will "allow" you to tag team their lane for a couple of minutes to get the necessary xp to unlock your skills and some alternative equipment since you can not buy your normal jg lifesteal or mana regen starters.

People tend to be morons though. As a result, simple solutions turn into free lane giveaways and spam reports with a 30 minute ff.

SaltLord451Nov 2, 20175 votes

One time I had a Mundo who made me go Twitch jungle when I forgot smite and was insistent that i leave his lane. Needless to say, that experience was painful [sg-soraka]