By next patch it'll have a 12 second deactivation period after killing a minion. I appreciate you guys abusing it over the last week or two. Good on ya.
I'm mostly annoyed about champions like Bard using Q on a minion to stun, killing the minion and losing out on the extra damage and gold because of it.
Narasimha60 votesLook on the bright side!
It wasn't 
's fault this time!
Ariel the Cruel59 votesIt wasn't only
fixed.
Clockwork Mouse3 votesTell me the history of Ez abusing items he shouldn't be using. I only know of Runeglave when it came out.
Steelflame12 votesAny damage jungle item says hi. Honestly, he abused SotLE(old AD jungle item in S3) back when all abilities applied a small true damage DoT. Pretty sure he abused old wriggles. And Iceborn got countless nerfs on ranged champions because of him.
Ackelope3 votesI mean, to be perfectly honest, I think it's a little embarrassing that Riot fails to take into account some champions when adding new items/changing old. People like Ezreal, for example, who, with good AD and AP scalings, a spammable ability that applies on-hit effects from afar and the ability to work with heavy auto attack based builds that synergize with his passive. You can more or less build anything on him, damage wise, and it will work better than it will on most champions to some extent. I feel like people like him should be taken into account on balance decisions more frequently, since items that might seem to be totally tailored to fit a certain champion type work well on him because of his build versatility,
Sona Ping42 votesAnd the thing is, it's not because it was necessary. The reason Riot did that is because despite all the talk of "Strategic Diversity" they keep trotting out, they nerf or change anything that is not being played in the way they had already decided it should be used.
Pierce The Veal27 votes[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O1g6ETI2,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-12-15T11:37:05.263+0000)
And the thing is, it's not because it was necessary. The reason Riot did that is because despite all the talk of "Strategic Diversity" they keep trotting out, they nerf or change anything that is not being played in the way they had already decided it should be used.
THIS.
I ORIGINALLY PLAYED LEAGUE CAUSE IT LET'S YOU PLAY SHIT THE WAY YOU WANT TO. AP SION? WHY THE FUCK NOT?
Noooooow. Rito: "omg guys dey be like let's use a support item on a non support wtf we gotta gut dat." Or "omg da laners be like using da jungl items guys! Dat's stupid they're jangle item wtf."
Remember proxy singed?
"Wtf we support off meta but not if it means singed is gonna be anywhere except between the tier one towers of toplane. NURFED"
WHY RIOT. WHY DO WE HAVE TO BE FORCED TO PLAY IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. Maybe I have my own special way of playing? You don't have to support it, but PLEASE for the sake of your $$$ don't go out of your way to prevent us from playing things in a weird way.
Spicy Rice12 votesThe problem isn't that its being played midlane, the problem is that it's giving midlaners an insane amount of gold advantage with no real drawback
3TWarrior1 votesand it mostly happens to do with brand...a champ most wouldn't touch for season 4 and 5
his passive procs all 3 ticks...
Spaceman5pff7 votesThe damage interaction never changed with brand's passive. Support brand was always crazy.
Brand got OP as shit MOSTLY due to buffs to liandrys and rylais back in the AP rework, and the introduction of deathfire touch. This FQC item was buffed up with the preseason and i think just due to timing people are shoving more blame its way for brand than it should get.
The only major change between brand/FQC is that mid brand now takes it as well.
Sona Ping12 votesThe problem isn't that its being played midlane, the problem is that it's giving midlaners an insane amount of gold advantage with no real drawback
"Insane" is far too strong a word for these circumstances. It's a 2gp10 item, that's significantly less than Avarice Blade at 3gp10 and +2g on unit kill and Avarice Blade only costs 800g (Frostfang is 850g). I don't know about anyone else, but I've never heard of anyone experiencing a problem due to Avarice Blade.* Yes, the amount of gold gen. a mid can get improves when Frost Queen's Claim is finished, but that takes 2.2k gold to get and that's a sizable amount of money that is further denied from other item choices.
The reason people are saying they build it is that it gives them access to CDR and additionally, the passive gold generation helps them buy items now that mage items are more expensive. It's a utility choice, in other words, chosen for strategic advantages.
So in summation: No, Frostqueen's mid has many significant drawbacks; the reason it's being changed is because Riot is not allowing strategies that they have not already decided upon. Again. It reminds me of the times when Riot refused to do anything that would imply that "Junglers" were a thing that even existed.
Spaceman5pff5 votesI agree with this 100% dude, I die a bit inside every time a champ gets reworked and they get the AD or AP standardization treatment (RIP AP MF, APGPOP, AP Sion, AP / Hybrid Poppy, AP Tristana, AP Morde, and Battleraka)
I feel a little less magic in the game than i did when i started at the end of S3, and that loss of choice is part of it. To be fair however, I feel like most of that loss is due to how scalings are standardized so much now, and less so much because of item refinement.
Long story short: I miss seeing random AP ratios in places I don't expect them and then wondering if i can build for that... HOWEVER I do NOT miss Deathfire Grasp. I do NOT miss Sword of the Divines Rengar. And I am glad I never experienced League of Cleavers
Heckin Support2 votesTo be fair, Ezreal with the runglaive was stupidly poweful.
Narasimha2 votesRemember proxy singed?
"Wtf we support off meta but not if it means singed is gonna be anywhere except between the tier one towers of toplane. NURFED"
Eh, to be fair, that was deserved. Any playstyle that involves dying over and over and frustrating the opponents to no end isn't a healthy one for the game.
Pierce The Veal1 votesEh, to be fair, that was deserved. Any playstyle that involves dying over and over and frustrating the opponents to no end isn't a healthy one for the game.
I played against it when it was around. Several times in fact. It really wasn't NEARLY as bad as people made it out to be. Just making it so csing reduces kill bounty would have made it weaker. There was no need to give feeders more power. I'm not sure why finding weird and crazy strategies that don't suit Riot's view of the game is stupid.
RISE Shlack1231 votesIt ended up leading to your tower dying by pure attrition and made Singed worth nothing to chase around. You missed minions and gold trying to stop him, and when you did kill him, he was worth no gold after a while. Not economical to chase him, and he just laughed all the way to the bank. He'd continue doing this and take both of your towers without lifting a finger.
Sorry, but your assessment of the strategy doesn't line up with reality.
Pierce The Veal2 votesIt ended up leading to your tower dying by pure attrition and made Singed worth nothing to chase around. You missed minions and gold trying to stop him, and when you did kill him, he was worth no gold after a while. Not economical to chase him, and he just laughed all the way to the bank. He'd continue doing this and take both of your towers without lifting a finger.
Sorry, but your assessment of the strategy doesn't line up with reality.
I have to agree it had points which made it annoying and problematic, but I also have to say that it could be countered with a combination of cc and waveclear.
This is the most extreme type of strategy that I can come up with, there are others that came about that were not nearly so radical, yet were nerfed or hit. AP kog was played once in LCS and had his possible stacks on mana cost doubled. AP yi was strong so they nerfed him then reworked him. Some of these may have been annoying strategies, but Riot deemed it ok to outright remove them for the most part (AP kog still exists, but after the changes around AD kog is merely a shadow of his former self).
But you are right about singed. If you picked some autoattacker or duelist you would be in for some trouble. But it's not like that's not the case with several champions today. The gold changes, were ok, but they also nerfed singed to make sure he can't do it again.
Pastramka2 votesThis made me chuckle while making me sad...
Spaceman5pff4 votesI think it is more along the lines of: "Hm, this item is suddenly crowding out all other mana regen items strategically, and having multiple of it on a team creates not only an overload of unkillable vision, but also an excess of catch potential beyond what the price tag of this item justifies"
Which i think leads to: "Instead of keeping the stats as is and buffing the cost to bring the gold efficiency in line, lets refine it such that it both A) is no longer the one and only best mana regen item, and B) Is still useful and powerful for the class it was initially brought into the game to help"
Let us be real for a moment. Would you rather they made this item so expensive that it simply became inefficient and therefore obsolete, or have it be SLIGHTLY less powerful, but still affordable?
I guess yeah, they are balancing it for a specific set of characters in a certain role. SURE you have a point about them trying to make it do what they want. The thing is, by doing this they create an item that fills a VERY specific role and does it VERY well. I like having some items like that!
Sona Ping2 votesI hope so. I would like to think that way. However, due to the history of League and how Riot has handled situations like this when they have occurred, that is a level of argumentative charity that I cannot afford and is, fairly, something that is unreasonable for me in this situation.
The thing is.... it is not doing that; it's not crowding out other items strategically. By and large everyone is still buying the items they are "supposed to", and those are the items those players and champions are winning with. Even with both Mid and Supports buying Frostqueen's, it still isn't that popular. To demonstrate, I looked up item popularity for you and if elophant is at all accurate, the item, if there is an item that would crowding out others, is RoA. That shows that RoA is being purchased almost 9X more often than Frostqueen's Claim, and that's not even taking into account that a lot of those are just supports buying it.
FQC isn't the best mana item in the game, not even solely in terms of mana regeneration, Athene's Grail is in that regard. So I don't find it surprising that the reality is people are sticking with what has worked and getting things like Athene's Grail which specifically has better mana regeneration, more ability power, more cool-down reduction, and magic resist on top of that. The people who are getting Claim are doing so because they are going for a specific strategy. The problem that people have is that Riot is simply going "NOPE. Not allowed" and will likely justify that with one of their design tautologies like they have done in the past.
blkKalameet14 votesThis isn't a problem caused by mid lane. This is because riot raised the cost of all our ap items, so it would be stupid if we didn't take the most cost effective mana regen item that also gives us more gold.
The fact that it also gives us vision in a time that wards have been nurfed is just icing on top, but that vision also slows them to make a gank more effective.
Even with this upcoming nurf this item is still going to used. For its price there's no reason not to take it considering what it offers.
Kitten of Evil11 votesGive mid mages better mana regen items and they won't need to take FCQ.
The active is very good, the AP is ok, the gold increase is nice, but the 150% mana regen along with 10% CDR is insane, and is way cheaper than any other commonly-rushed mana regen items while doing basically just as much.
Ionian10 votesNo problem man [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Not Katarina3 votes~ Midlaners, signed with love.
P.S Stop roaming mid.
Old Man Teeto7 votesMinor change for support.
Only time you are CS'ing is when no one else is around to CS. 12 seconds is not that long either.
Partholonian2 votesOnly time you are intentionally CSing. Some supports have AOE that will occasionally finish off a minion. 
for example (who are all common spellthief users as supports anyway).
But if the item is so good that roles it isn't intended for are taking it, then nerfing the item and then possibly compensation buffing some of the champions may still be a reasonable course.
MLDzXnRRR6 votesWho cares? If you are playing support, you are not taking minions.
Death by Glamour21 votesI guess you dont play poke supports
Verdade1 votesExactly, as a Vel'Koz main i was going for 
/ only because of the ability to kill minions and still earn gold. With it im able to clear a wave if needed without getting penalized for it, be it in earlier or late stages of the game. Also helps when killing enemy champions - if i use my R on champion in the middle of minions i will now miss damage from because there was a minion in lazor's way?
These support items reward you for ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING in lane, like putting yourself at risk, expending resources (health/mana) to get gold unlike 
which gives you gold AND health just by standing afk in brush. If we are nerfing why don't we also nerf and 
health regens?
This is brutal change for poke supports and they've got hard time already thanks to all sustain buffs. This change sends Support to trash tier, as her plants can't be controlled and are bound to accidentaly kill minions in lane, nerfs 
supports because their abilities are either AOE or multi-target and barely touches problematic 
who abuses it the most because he procs all stacks from single spell.
It's just enforcing boring tank all in supports like 
just like the last season. These champions should be vulnerable to aggression (poke, not all ins) but strong against sustain supports (because sustain doesn't matter when they kill you in single trade). Sustain supports are supposed to deal with heavy poke by outhealing it.
Betoldia Prime2 votes and have no cooldown.... 
and 
do...
Meanie403 votes and have tribute cooldowns added on the PBE.
The Bearded Bard38 votesWho cares? If you are playing support, you are not taking minions.
ADC leaves lane to go buy items, creeps get pushed to tower, do I take them and lose my gold item for a while or just let tower get them?
I'm Bard and I use a minion to get off a stun on the enemy ADC, I now do less damage because in the process of stunning him, I accidentally took a minion.
Sire Hippington8 votesif the adc leaves and you defend your tower, you hardly will be in a position to harras anyone anyway, and chances are high that this happens after a trade, so your stacks are already consumed... And while it might sometimes happe, more often than not bards Q won't kill the minion it connects to.
I haven't heard anny supports complain about loosing their passive upon cs, so why start to complain now?
Do you want less manaregen or less ap on it instead? Or les duration/slow on the active? Cause it does honestly deserve a small nerf.
It Hertz When IP5 votesBecause the time it took to reset wasn't particularly bad.
For example, I used it on Soraka from time to time, when I was feeling lucky. While my ADC was ~~dead ~~ shopping I would spam Q and AAs to keep the lane from getting pushed, often while the enemy ADC was ~~shopping ~~ dead. At the same time, I would be harassing the enemy support with AAs to get the gold from both Tribute and the Bandit mastery. I could deliberately CS during this then go back to farming gold from poking for a maximized income while my lane buddy is away. Helped make up the gold difference between carry and support without taking from my ADC.
Soon, I won't be able to do that without losing Tribute for a solid 12 seconds as if I hadn't upgraded Frostfang. Not losing Tribute on CS was one reason to rush FQC, if my ADC was going to spend time roaming or if I needed to stall my lane briefly while still trying to farm as much gold as possible.
If it needs a nerf, hit the mana regen. Between Ardent Censor, Morellonomicon, runes, and a finished Income item, I always end up mid-game with more mana regen than I need. Drop the regen down to 100%. Boom.
Xonra12 votesWho cares? If you are playing support, you are not taking minions.
There is this part of the game called "not laning phase". I know most solo queuers for some reason don't realize this, but it does exist.
Ariel the Cruel14 votes
Oh, you mean that part where I start farming towers?
Or that part where I solo the enemy nexus?
What's a "lane phase"?
3TWarrior1 votes
to : it's the job riot saw fit to give you...lucky you
Ariel the Cruel4 votesQuinn's a jungle assassin these day.
BeatzBoyFTW6 votesThe Bearded Bard26 votesTold you.
It wouldn't even be so ridiculously popular if all the other AP items weren't so insanely expensive right now. It feels horrid paying 1600 gold for 
and even worse to sit on two or three items until you finally have 1200 gold to combine them into 
Paladin 0f Life10 votes[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O1g6ETI2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-12-15T11:35:59.348+0000)
It wouldn't even be so ridiculously popular if all the other AP items weren't so insanely expensive right now. It feels horrid paying 1600 gold for
Riot hates mages they are nerfing mechanically skilled champs in favor of easy to use AA champs like marksmen. It sucks being a burst mage main
Keti12 votesLol you sound ridiculous.
#anniemechanics
The Sword Saint6 votesCalled it when i saw this shit in game.
/all "You know, people like you are why supports can't have nice things."
They laughed it off and said that they don't play support so they'd rather have fun abusing a support item until it gets nerfed and not care that it makes support's lives harder in the long run.
Ariel the Cruel4 votesS4: "Ok, we're going to help supports by giving them an actual expendable income." {No supports get played for half the season.} "Ok, that didn't work. We're taking away most of that gold, but supports are still going to keep their scaling (especially you, Sona)."
Ayame Isaki2 votes ... Cries
Social Justice 16 votesMan, I can't count the times that enemy laner got away with less than 15 health.
Because that would require IT EVER HAPPENING
Thumpin6 votes"Ruined" he says.
You lose 12 seconds of gold generated by harass, which will realistically only apply to situations in which you're alone in lane trying to scrape up some leftover CS. You're not going to be spending much time harassing under those circumstances.
Sire Hippington5 votesnot that the item isn't a bit strong in generall, ot that the nerf won't really harm supports as they should still be able to make very good use off the gp/10 It only really hurts sololaners that rush it, cause even sololaners won't notice that nerf outside of lane... 'ruining' it is waaaaaaay over exaggerated
And as other already pointed out, it will still get used in mid, as it is the most costefficient mana-sustain item, and the active actually is pretty damn op, especially on snipermage. Spooky ghosts into lux cage+friends has hardly any counterplay if you don't have a mobillity tool, as the 40% slow doesn't allow you to dodge the snare.
FakeGravity4 votesI'm totally ok with mages taking it what's the big deal? They can't really build it early because they will be farming and gives rather small ap sure the mana regeneration is insane but nerfing it might solve the issue can we at least decrease the down time from 12 seconds to 8? After all midlaners love to wave clear and will take minions very often
Ariel the Cruel3 votesSome mid laners just 1/2 shot the minion wave, so the nerf won't actually mean too much. I'll still probably take FQC on Vel'Koz and Xerath. If nothing else, it gives good mana regen and the ghost active is a death sentence on them (I took twin ghosts on both of them before it was removed).
Sadly, FQC will probably get nerfed again after this.