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A big reason why top sucks is the junglers power level being too high early game

Rexxiee··32 votes·1,812 views

Junglers as a whole are just too strong right now and they completely decide most top lane matchups, shit like kha is beyond disgusting, catchup exp is still a thing so they get REWARDED for camping lanes and theres nothing a top laner can do about being camped by a kha/lee/any early game jungler other than to hope his jungler does the same to bot lane or helps him, nice gameplay huh? That totally makes ppl want to play top lane lmao.

I remember back when junglers had a far slower early game and if they tried to camp they would fall behind quickly, and if they ganked a lvl 6 top laner they would often be lvl 5 themselfes and some were strong enough to double kill it.

Now we have lvl 3 khazixs doing 80-0 on a single rotation that can show up top lane at 2:45 lvl 3 with double buffs, now we have lees hitting lvl 6 while solo lanes are 5 so he can walk to literally any lane, wardhop ult QQ to get the freest kill in the world. Cant you see on how bad this is for the game? It also only makes the snowball problem even worse.

#nerfthejungle2018 #maketoplanegreatagain

21 Comments

bywords7014 votes

still wondering why riot has not nerfed junglers. even in pro play it is painfully obvious they are the most influential role

HaIlMonitor2 votes

If you are talking about pro play alone they wont because ganks are exciting to watch.

In solo que, junglers have the problem is Ganks are to helpful. A kill gives more then the jungle ever will. For example, enemy lee gets a kill (FB) and you steal 2 or 3 of his camps? He will be the same level and have the same gold, why??? They also got rid of Sated Devour and anything that stacks and gives junglers true scaling because then laners QQ to much. Its a double edge sword.

Ratpie2 votes

{quoted}

If you are talking about pro play alone they wont because ganks are exciting to watch.

In solo que, junglers have the problem is Ganks are to helpful. A kill gives more then the jungle ever will. For example, enemy lee gets a kill (FB) and you steal 2 or 3 of his camps? He will be the same level and have the same gold, why??? They also got rid of Sated Devour and anything that stacks and gives junglers true scaling because then laners QQ to much. Its a double edge sword.

Yes, but not all junglers can benefit as easily off this. Only the assassin type or AD burst. Tank or sustain junglers are not a guarantee kill an have to really weigh if the gank is worth it. Damage on AD champs is so high, it is always worth it.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

It is always worth it unless you cant clear. Someone like Shyv though can gank, fail 3 times, and still clear camps faster then assassins so it wont matter.

Salson8 votes

Pro players play extremely safe, rarely overextend and use tanks/mages.

So Rito purposely overbuffed Jungle to introduce at least some sort of action in pro play.

Doesn't matter if it makes the game borderline unplayable for most of us.

Ratpie2 votes

{quoted}

still wondering why riot has not nerfed junglers. even in pro play it is painfully obvious they are the most influential role

The problem isn't junglers, it is a few junglers. Most champs struggle to jungle right now. It is just a few hyper carry AD burst junglers, the rest struggle to keep up with the rest of their team. I feel that the same reason these AD burst junglers are seeming so strong is the same reason, the same type of ADCs are feeling OP. Not every ADC is OP right now, same as jungler. Try getting the jungler in solo games right now. It is the easiest role to get. ADC is one of the hardest. Sup used to be a guarantee, but now you cannot get that role half the time. Mid is still half and half to get. Top is actually not guaranteed even though it does feel like a disconnected role right now. Jungle I have gotten almost every single time. In fact I picked jungle as second and sup as first, and I got jungle.....

MysteriousBootie6 votes

"But muh fast-paced esports gameplay" -rito

Hügö5 votes

The power of a jungler scales with the stupidity of the laners. The level 3 gank is the only time in the game when a jungler is ahead of a lane.

SwiftKitten884 votes

lol wut? idk about top lane but.. jungle power level isnt remotely too high. at least relative to the other classes

in order for the sigificance of gameplay impact on the team winning its ADC (becuase they are broken and a fed adc can carry anything because no other roles even fucking matter) support (becuase they help decide if the ADC is fed or not) jungler (becuase they can also help the adc get fed) mid (becuase they also have an easy time roaming bot) and top is last because they cant really make an impact on bot.

THAT is the reason why "top" has almost no significance, its becuase in 90% of games how w/e adc has more kills is the sole deciding factor of the game. and top cant really influence that.

i dont play adc but i do play support and jungler. and its just as stupid from this end. ADC's need heavy nerf across the board.. then once any other lane but bot matters top lane will have a much bigger role...

Rexxiee12 votes

{quoted}

lol wut? idk about top lane but.. jungle power level isnt remotely too high. at least relative to the other classes

in order for the sigificance of gameplay impact on the team winning its ADC (becuase they are broken and a fed adc can carry anything because no other roles even fucking matter) support (becuase they help decide if the ADC is fed or not) jungler (becuase they can also help the adc get fed) mid (becuase they also have an easy time roaming bot) and top is last because they cant really make an impact on bot.

THAT is the reason why "top" has almost no significance, its becuase in 90% of games how w/e adc has more kills is the sole deciding factor of the game. and top cant really influence that.

i dont play adc but i do play support and jungler. and its just as stupid from this end. ADC's need heavy nerf across the board.. then once any other lane but bot matters top lane will have a much bigger role...

You dont get that the role that decides bot lane is the jungler.

Jungle is the highest impact role in the game now.

Blåbæret5 votes

{quoted}

You dont get that the role that decides bot lane is the jungler.

Jungle is the highest impact role in the game now.

Nope. Last season you'd be right, but now? Nope. The better bot lane wins. Doesn't matter if you camp your bot if they're garbage players, you'll still lose.

Besides that, the jungle is an impact role. That's the entire point. You also kind of contradict yourself when you talking about bot lane and junglers. The jungler has to camp bot lane to even have a chance of winning, so even junglers are constrained by this ridiculous ADC meta, and if the jng is bot most of the time, why's that a problem for your top lane? Besides, ADCs invalidate so many classes in this game and makes them a pain to play.

Executioner6 votes

ADC invalidate so many classes? How? You make it seem like the ADC is out running into a 1v5 and coming out alive, which is simply false. A fed kha'zix ruins any of an adc life.

Blåbæret4 votes

Junglers are fine right now tbh. Damage is just too high in general, so when you get ganked you are likely to die.

Ben SwoIo3 votes

Pfft. I've been level 2 ganked by Warwick XinZhao while me and my laner (mid) are still level 1. Way too fast imo.

Apparently Noob4 votes

Lvl 2 gank has always been a thing. Level 3 and level 6 gank tho? Now that's messed.

Ben SwoIo3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Apparently Noob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UX52iY97,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-01-20T05:23:12.782+0000)

Lvl 2 gank has always been a thing. Level 3 and level 6 gank tho? Now that's messed.

Not when you're still level 1 in mid. And it was not always a thing. It was mostly Pantheon Volibear Udyr Graves who used to cheese this.

Holgranth4 votes

Twitch Shaco were based around level 2 cheese ganks for years and back in season 2 item 1001 3item 2003 Shyvana was pretty much Meta.

This is really not new.

Ben SwoIo1 votes

{quoted}

Twitch Shaco were based around level 2 cheese ganks for years and back in season 2 item 1001 3item 2003 Shyvana was pretty much Meta.

This is really not new.

Ohhhh my bad. Did I say level 2 ganks were new? I should learn to read what I type, I didn't realize that's what I put. I'm so glad I have someone like you to catch that.

Sire Hippington3 votes

It's actually the main reason i no longer go top. Sure, there are other shitty things, butting seeing even a jungle jayce hitting lvl 3 befor me with doublebuff and fullhealth forceing my summoners and recall without any help from his laner... I prefer an agressive high pressure playstyle, and with how jungle and vision are right now(damn trinket offers only 1/3 of a ward early on and there are no green wards to buy...just fuck patch 5.22), you can't do any early agression if you don't have your jungler sitting top for a countergank 24/7, cause as soon as you move your as away from your tower, the enemy jungler will basically solokill you no matter what his laner does. Back in the days, ganking a winning lane that early was risky as you actually lost health on the first clear, staying around a single lane to long without results caused you to fall behind in level, one could actually fucking ward vs ganks(screw the fucking blastcone, why give even more gankparths????) and by the time junglers could effectively gank, you could have enough lane controll to get away from the ganks as the opposing laner could not commit to hard without giveing you a counterkill, and junglers were not ahead of sololaners and **easily **able to 1v1 them... The state of jungle and nonexistence of vision are just as disgusting as the damagecreep and a big contribution to the shitty overall state of the game.

Onandaga2 votes

I've always just flat out disliked everything about the jungle in this game. I hate playing jungle, I hate lane losing because I died to invis Kha in the bushes, I hate losing lane because my jungler is an asshole who keeps forcing bad fights, I hate feeling like I got spoon fed kills rather then earning them myself when my jungler is actually good, I just fucking hate everything about the fucking jungle and wish it would just go the fuck away.

Kazukes1 votes

I feel if you are getting camped then you should probably last hit at your tower. Sounds like one of those darius mains who always push the lane then get upset when the enemy jungler sees the easy gank. If jungler is camping top, he isn't taking dragon or ganking bot lane. If the jungler happens to get fed off successful ganks then he earned his impact in the game. If the jungler can afford to camp top lane hard, then the team must be doing bad enough in their lanes that the enemy jungler doesn't even need to show up. That seems more a problem with the team than junglers as a whole.

I'm sure we've all had those games as junglers where you have 2+ lanes losing 1v1 or from having no map awareness when they push out. In those games its a scramble to juggle either helping the good lane or attempt to stem the bleeding of the other lane(s). Maybe top is doing bad and bot is doing good, you camp bot and the enemy jax somehow ends up 8/0. Maybe you decide to camp top enemy jax takes the 1v2 and ends up 4/2 and enemy jungler hit your bot lane and got his ahead because he could afford to with his top lane doing so well.

My main point is, if jungle can so easily afford to stay in 1 lane and this strategy wins his team the game, then your team must be under performing if his presence isn't necessary or useful to his other lanes.

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