I think I Might have the solution for Poachers Knife

Dreadlocks·Apr 25, 2015·45 votes·2,023 views

What if this item gave ward stacks (like feral flare) and can hold up to 2 charges. Getting the ward(s) would be from killing the enemy jungle's large monster of course.

20 Comments

masterdragon481Apr 25, 201510 votes

The only problem with poachers knife is that it offers nothing if your team isn't doing well. Every other smite has benefits whether your team is 20/0 or 0/20; Trailblazer will always gives mana and health back, challenging smite and chilling smite can always be used in combat against opponents. Poachers knife is ONLY useful if you are in the enemy jungle. If you have been contained to yours, this smite is no better than not getting a smite at all. As long as it continues to function in this manner, it will never be picked up.

So target your suggestion specifically though, I don't think that would make it all that enticing. With trinkets in the game, vision overall is much more plentiful and makes counter jungling like this much less effective. Also the limit on the number of wards you can place doesn't really make this as useful as it would have been in earlier iterations of the game.

TheNewHumanineApr 25, 20155 votes

Perhaps instead of placing wards, it gave you a temporary Oracle's effect upon activation. This way it could work to increase your denial capabilities if you are in the enemy jungle (take out all their wards to make them play scared) AND it could help you clear out your own jungle if you are behind (to give your laners a little more security). This also opens up the jungler to take the yellow or blue trinket, instead of the red trinket they usually pickup nowadays.

RisurinApr 25, 20158 votes

what does that fix exactly ?

The biggest problem with poacher knife is that getting it is pretty much like telling the enemy team that you are going to spend a lot of time in their jungle, otherwise the buy is wasted. Then they can proceed to simply ward and collapse on you every time you are seen.

Then you compare it to the other smite, 2 gives the ability to smite an opponent player dealing true damage and either reducing their damage to you or stealing their move speed, while the other one gives you the best jungle clear and sustain.

Specially when you think about counter-jungling, Blasting Smite seem like the better option to quickly clear the camp you stealing, and get out with still enough hp/mp to fight if you are caught or if there is an opportunity for a gank, compared to what ? a bit of move speed 20 gold (thats like a minion?) half smite cd which is pretty low to begin with and has charges anyway.

giving wards isnt that great of a compensation to making it on par, specially with yellow trinket upgrade, or sightstone.

DreadlocksApr 25, 20151 votes

It helps because its a different way for junglers to interact other than gank farm gank farm... which is what riot wanted to change in sesaon 5. They wanted to give junglers different options and ways to interact. Giving them wards for counter jungling opens up more vision for your team and saves him a small buck on a green ward. It can also lead to more invading because you can see when he is looking for his camp and you and a laner can invade then.

no matter how you look at it, more vision is never bad for a team. And i see no reason why adding a ward to Poachers wouldnt help make invading safer or more worth the risk.

MyozthirirnApr 25, 20153 votes

More vision is not bad, but it isnt good either. Not good enough atleast, since you can buy wards on your own. The problem with poachers as stated by Risurin is the concept itself, it doenst serve any purpose.. litle gold.. tiny movement buff.. compared with the great bonuses the other 3 give. And vision enters in the category of "more gold" since you should be buying those wards anyways. Poachers need an unique+useful efect or it will be trash forever.

RisurinApr 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It helps because its a different way for junglers to interact other than gank farm gank farm... which is what riot wanted to change in sesaon 5. They wanted to give junglers different options and ways to interact. Giving them wards for counter jungling opens up more vision for your team and saves him a small buck on a green ward. It can also lead to more invading because you can see when he is looking for his camp and you and a laner can invade then.

no matter how you look at it, more vision is never bad for a team. And i see no reason why adding a ward to Poachers wouldnt help make invading safer or more worth the risk.

Well since you need ward placed prior to counter-jungling (to be able to run away as soon as the opponent team collapse on you), but need to kill an enemy camp to be able to get that ward, i see that as already flawed in what it want to do. And as i said, trinket and sightstone can already give you a lot of ward without needing to buy actual ward (which you can always do, and really should anyway).

I think essential, what the item search to accomplish is bad since its really telegraphic and risky. It's literally like you are telling your opponent team you gonna invade their camps often. But if they want to keep the item as it is, buffing the smite reward its probably the best way to go, although i doubt that the bonus ward will do much, specially if you look at all the other possible alternatives.

PartholonianApr 25, 20151 votes

The smite cd is so that you can go clear your side too with the extra smites.

And you don't necessarily want to clear a camp if you're stealing it.

I doubt if anything Blasting gives you could equal the Jinx passive for ability to get out, but maybe they could raise the duration or something.

The usefulness of counterjungling depends heavily on the value of farm, and the success rate of ganks. Right now that's heavily tilted in favor of ganks.

FantasySniperApr 26, 20152 votes

Maybe we should just delete it.

Counter-jungling is a strategy, but creating an item specifically to reward it or remove risk from it just makes it harder to balance.

Widder88Apr 26, 20152 votes

Counterjungling is toxic. It is good that the item is weak.

Mike KachowskiApr 25, 20151 votes

What if we made it increase the duration of the buffs you already get when you smite them in the enemy jungle?

MigrañaboyApr 25, 20151 votes

How about if white smite has two modes of use:

Short range: same as it is now.

Long range: (doesn't apply the true damage) can us smite to reveal some vision of a camp and apply some sort of debuff mark to neutrals (this also could hint the enemy jungler that is about to get invaded). If the vision revealed an enemy jungler doing the camp, you gain vision of that jungler for a little while (like caithlin or nidalee traps).

LOL SpammerApr 25, 20151 votes

Wow I main jungle and I actually never even knew what poachers knife did. Lol...

RikariApr 26, 20151 votes

Ooooooooooor... What if Poachers Knife Did bonus true damage to monsters when near enemy champions/in the opposing jungle? it would maintain the poachers identity,have teamfight effect and still always be viable.

FluxBoundApr 26, 20151 votes

usually you should be stealing camps when you know that the enemy jungler is not too close

Remlap1223Apr 26, 20151 votes

This is actually a good idea. To all the people who dissent and say "oh that's what yellow is for", now you can take a sweeper trinket. Yes, Poacher's Knife is fundamentally flawed because it tells the enemy team you're going to counterjungle them, but giving free wards I think is enough of a benefit to make it at least a possibility.

FluxBoundApr 26, 20151 votes

I feel like it should just get some effects, like bonus exp (because counterjungling is supposed to deny the other). I'd like it if the bonus speed went on once you kill the monster, because it's better to smite some camps in the beginning. The ward thing is also a good idea

C9 MythApr 26, 20151 votes

That sounds a bit weird to be mechanically but a cool idea

AelvrApr 26, 20151 votes

OP...is a genius.

ModAcademy KaynApr 27, 20151 votes

So what you're saying... give Lee a sightstone for counter jungling? (This is joke, I do not think this is what you mean, but this is what it could become)

DreadlocksApr 27, 20151 votes

To be fair, if any jungler is going to sacrifice one of the other smites for a couple of wards why not? At the pro lvl junglers are already buying sight stone on most junglers anyways. I think a couple of wards vs item 3713 item 3715 item 3706 is totally acceptable.