Nautilus has been bottom tier top and support for too long

Professor Ward·Mar 18, 2018·20 votes·3,225 views

Its terrible hes bottom tier in every stat across the board. http://champion.gg/champion/Nautilus/Support http://champion.gg/champion/Nautilus/Top

I can still win handily with the oaf, and he still works really well into thresh. But other than that it takes electrocute cheese botlane and 400k mastery worth of experience to get him rolling. I love the champion to death, but currently he's terrible. Sub 49% winrate for so long on such AN EASY champion. Its time to give him some love.

He has no place top He has no place in the jungle And hes extremely niche support

I feel that as a champ he works really well into many botlanes, but his numbers just arent there currently.

Stray away from making him an invulnerable pick/ban tank top like usual, and lean him towards picks, and youll have another great support bot.

31 Comments

pilot na karucaMar 18, 201810 votes

I don't play nautilus but I miss him, +1

WiegrafOfValorMar 18, 20187 votes

Blame ADC mains for shouting "OP tanks need nerfs" until riot nerf every tank to the ground while most of the times it's just one or two tanks that need individual nerfs.

Maokai Ornn

And nautilus should be a TOP laner rather than support, he's just not suitable to peel like the rest of the tank supports, he just need a better shield to duel champions and a easier time laning.

Professor WardMar 18, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Blame ADC mains for shouting "OP tanks need nerfs" until riot nerf every tank to the ground while most of the times it's just one or two tanks that need individual nerfs.

And nautilus should be a TOP laner rather than support, he's just not suitable to peel like the rest of the tank supports, he just need a better shield to duel champions and a easier time laning.

his shield is one of the strongest in the game.

And when hes viable top he's literally unkillable and too easy to farm with so he becomes pick/ban lcs and gets nerfed.

TèrminusMar 18, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UBxhxs9s,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-03-18T12:37:35.940+0000)

his shield is one of the strongest in the game.

It's also up the least often due to its colossal 18 second CD that doesn't scale down with rank.

Honestly, they could probably get away with reducing the cooldown, duration, and HP scaling of the shield. Make it more in line with other tank shields, like Ornn and Sion.

Nautilus has no staying power outside of his shield (no other defensive steroids, no sustain), which costs too much to be used too often early on.

He effectively starts as a bruiser who's too mana-hungry and lacks the sustain to actually function as a bruiser, and has to try and scale into his tanking capability.

saltranMar 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Blame ADC mains for shouting "OP tanks need nerfs" until riot nerf every tank to the ground while most of the times it's just one or two tanks that need individual nerfs.

And nautilus should be a TOP laner rather than support, he's just not suitable to peel like the rest of the tank supports, he just need a better shield to duel champions and a easier time laning.

Agree, we caused that Rito nerfed every tank and we also eat living babies for breakfeast.

RocketRelmMar 18, 201811 votes

he's (nautilus') not suitable to peel

I... wat. I mean yes if his numbers are too low then he won't be able to compete, but his kit is slanted incredibly hard towards CC. Kit-wise he's one of the best champions to peel with.

Zero Skill TankMar 18, 20182 votes

People crying for tank nerfs were exactly the same people that cried, and are still crying for ADC nerfs, kek.

AirKingNeoMar 18, 20182 votes

What adc mains? WHERE ARE THESE ADC MAINS? WHERE ON THE BOARDS DO YOU SEE ADC MAINS GETTING POSTS TO THE TOP?

#WHERE???

ThefrostyvikingMar 18, 20181 votes

Dude marksmen in general didn't say shit about Nautilus.

Its the fact that whenever he is any decent he becomes insta pick/ban in LCS which is what keeps getting him and every single part of his kit nerfed.

Waveclear? Nerfed, and his items for it.

Shields and defensive scalings? Nerfed.

Pretty sure his damage got a nerfs all around too, and his cooldowns ontop.

Because LCS:

Jaygo41Mar 18, 20184 votes

No no no. Didn't you hear? It's tanky DPS champions' time right now. Udyr Warwick Shyvana Sejuani Olaf

Oh yeah and right when they think it's their time to carry, it becomes 20 minutes item 3031 item 3087 item 3094

Your champion has no place in 2018 League of Legends.

sit kidMar 19, 20181 votes

Udyr ??

Funkin DunkinMar 18, 20183 votes

This is a joke thread right?

Professor WardMar 18, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Funkin Dunkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UBxhxs9s,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-03-18T14:46:33.033+0000)

This is a joke thread right?

not even close.

JohnnyNeverSinsMar 18, 20183 votes

Starter playing nautilus at the begining of season 5 (you know,when more than 15 champions made the appearance in the game and not everything was cancer).

Honestly haven't touched him since the ardent cencer meta around this time last year? I just stopped playing support and moved into jungle, couldn't bear with the soraka,Janna,nami shit,wouldn't play them as well since I find them really fucking boring.

Ive got around 400k with him, currently my most played champion,always played with electrocute,but right now? I think he is in a very bad position,I don't really care about his winrate to be honest buuut he is pretty weak compared to other supports at the moment

As to other lanes,last time I played him jungle was when blue and red buff had "kids" and every camp would give you a unique passive once you smited it so yeah, pretty long time ago and he was super fan

I've heard that he was a pretty good top laner,too tanky with good damage and lots of CC,honestly I always hated top lane so there was no time when I played top to know if he was good there too,I guess he was though

I also heard that there are some buffs coming in a patch or two,so stay tuned for those! :D

ahferroin7Mar 18, 20182 votes

WHile I agree that he is comparatively 'easy', that's based on an assumption that the person playing him has at least reasonable understanding of how to play in general. He's not got a reliable escape in case of a bad engage (not as bad in that respect as Leona, but still pretty bad), and he's not hugely tanky inherently, which makes it very easy for someone who doesn't understand trading and the rather basic math of when to engage to regularly screw themselves (and their lane partner) over.

Top for him is mostly an issue of slow CS and being easy to bully (he has no built-in sustain) than anything else. Classical top-lane builds still work on him if those factors aren't an issue, and there are some rather ridiculous AP bruiser builds after the recent AP item changes that work really well on ARAM ( item 3029 item 3007 item 3151 item 3165 item 3152 item 3158 with a Resolve/Domination page including Overgrowth, Grasp of the Undying, and Ravenous Hunter works insanely well for example, when fully stacked on RoA and Archangels, his ult can chunk most squishy targets for half their HP).

Jungle, IMO, is more a side effect of itemization than it is an issue with his kit. Tank junglers just don't work as reliably right now as they used to unless they have some gimmick that allows insane clear rates or sustain (looking specifically at Amumu and Warwick here). Naut has decent clear once built a bit, but getting there is hard because of the on-average low sustain early game for junglers.

I agree that his numbers are a bit low for a tank support role, but I really think it isn't as much scaling as base stats. In fact, I bet if they bumped up his HP/5 and MP/5 a bit and gave him a bit more base HP but slightly lower HP scaling per level (maybe bump him to 590-600 base at level one and keep his base at level 18 right around 2038 like it is right now), then it would allow him to be a much more reliable support, and probably give him better ability to jungle, without making it much easier for him to go top.

Professor WardMar 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

WHile I agree that he is comparatively 'easy', that's based on an assumption that the person playing him has at least reasonable understanding of how to play in general. He's not got a reliable escape in case of a bad engage (not as bad in that respect as Leona, but still pretty bad), and he's not hugely tanky inherently, which makes it very easy for someone who doesn't understand trading and the rather basic math of when to engage to regularly screw themselves (and their lane partner) over.

Top for him is mostly an issue of slow CS and being easy to bully (he has no built-in sustain) than anything else. Classical top-lane builds still work on him if those factors aren't an issue, and there are some rather ridiculous AP bruiser builds after the recent AP item changes that work really well on ARAM ( with a Resolve/Domination page including Overgrowth, Grasp of the Undying, and Ravenous Hunter works insanely well for example, when fully stacked on RoA and Archangels, his ult can chunk most squishy targets for half their HP).

Jungle, IMO, is more a side effect of itemization than it is an issue with his kit. Tank junglers just don't work as reliably right now as they used to unless they have some gimmick that allows insane clear rates or sustain (looking specifically at Amumu and Warwick here). Naut has decent clear once built a bit, but getting there is hard because of the on-average low sustain early game for junglers.

I agree that his numbers are a bit low for a tank support role, but I really think it isn't as much scaling as base stats. In fact, I bet if they bumped up his HP/5 and MP/5 a bit and gave him a bit more base HP but slightly lower HP scaling per level (maybe bump him to 590-600 base at level one and keep his base at level 18 right around 2038 like it is right now), then it would allow him to be a much more reliable support, and probably give him better ability to jungle, without making it much easier for him to go top.

I agree with almost everything said here, but can i say that as a 400k nautilus main, his q escape is heavily overrated, as the cast animation, missile speed, and finish animation, kill the overall escape speed.(picture trist with a longer wind-up) If its not max range, its almost always faster to just run. Especially with mobis or deadmans. Combine that with terrain shape and having to perfectly master landing wall hooks and his q escape becomes a gimmick at best. Which is unfortunate.

As for his scalings, hp is the only relative stat botlane, ad scaling is non existent and his ap ratios and build path are not optimal. Currently at support he scales with nothing but hp. A ratio buff basically does nothing for him i agree.

WizzleboomMar 18, 20182 votes

I like him as a JG actually. He's super tanky BUT very team reliant so if your team is turds then all your cc just goes to waste. I feel like his base movespeed is too low and his attack animations need tightening big time.

KythersMar 18, 20182 votes

fuck nautilus he doesn't belong in botlane

Tails9016Mar 18, 20186 votes

fuck nautilus he doesn't belong in the game

######Riot edition

The WhamboozlerMar 18, 20181 votes

Yeah, naut was designed for jungle, not top and support... so he's a clumsy fit nearly everywhere. He'll be fine when tanks are good again, but not until.

xJLx MCHammerMar 19, 20181 votes

PLayed in today in ranked just to see how it would go

His all in is still fine as a support. But there are just better options.

DraehlMar 19, 20181 votes

IMO he's a good support either with Draven or a super passive hypercarry. Generally, though I'd rather be on a Thresh for similar playstyle and a higher skillcap. I'd rather see him buffed specific to the jungle- his clear time especially. Riptide doing bonus damage to minions/monsters would be a solid buff.

SpecterVonBarenMar 19, 20181 votes

Give him back his W damage.

PopcornBunniMar 19, 20181 votes

Could be worse off, really.

Poppy Amumu TahmKench Galio Ornn Malphite Rammus Gragas Shen Leona

All been sitting in the dumpster for over five months.

F3EDfromDesIr3Mar 19, 20182 votes

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BarcidMar 19, 20181 votes

Amumu with Liandry's/Rylai's right now is actually like really absurd as far as team-melting goes.

Killer of Night9Mar 19, 20181 votes

Only half of the list feel underrated... Ornn actually lose his trading power and with tabi's nerf a little buff fell nice. Tamh kench has no sense as support (he can only dodjing stun but offer nothing else like leona wich has only her passive) Last buff on poppy feel her in ok spot. Galio is bad only in soloQ. Amumu need something that should say he's a tank (a hp ratio feel good). Gragas seem to be the worst on the list because his jungle clear is slow and his ability took years for channel/trigger.

Killer of Night9Mar 19, 20181 votes

He's born as jungler and he goes to support role... Mao'kai actually has born as jungler too but he didn't get the support role like naut because riot keep him the top laner role with buffs/rework. Top lane naut was very unhelty because he got a huge shield that won't let anyone 1v1 and he got a tons of AoE dmg.. He need a bit more As steroid vs monster (Eg while he stun a monster with his passive he will get +80% attackspeed and deal 6-20 dmg on hit like nunu) Also some dmg on his E vs monster feel nice

BarcidMar 19, 20181 votes

His late-game is still one of the best because he packs the most readily-available CC in the game only next to Sejuani, and unlike champs like Maokai or Ornn there's no warm-up time. Even considering his ult has to reach an opponent first, it's point and click meaning unless they go invuln it won't miss - and if they blow an invuln for that then they're vulnerable to be hit with Q.

His W has some of the best scaling on a shield and his E is the best AoE slow. The thing that keeps Nautilus dumpstered is that he's slow on the uptake - he needs time to build and get bulky as fuck, and the game doesn't allow for that right now.

I'd still argue if you take him top, he's literally a free lane for your jungler to feast on - there's next to no other toplaner that can basically guarantee an enemy will be locked down for an entire rotation of burst. But with how little top is cared about these days, the chances of you having a jungler in solo-queue that gives enough of a shit to come top to get fed are almost non-existent.

I'd argue that he's a team-play champion, but even Bard - who was the teamiest team play champion to have been released since ever - got buffs to make him self-sufficient. I'd say Nautilus deserves to be autonomous as well.

sit kidMar 19, 20181 votes