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Riven nerfs are gonna come soon

FalconPawwwwnch··51 votes·7,670 views

Riot's just gonna milk the new skin for as much as they can first

She's broken as hell, everyone knows it. She's the most popular top lane champ in solo queue with one of the highest win rates in Diamond, and she's picked a ton other regions in professional play. Not to mention nobody enjoys facing her

Just wait for it, it always happens

Edit: Since Riot Repertoir doesn't believe there is causation to the changes (which to be fair is probably true), here are many cases where this has happened despite potentially be directly caused

  1. Dragonblade Riven was announced before Riven got nerfed on january 15th, 2014. The Skin was released officially the 28th
  2. Guqin Sona came out when Sona nerfs were being begged for because of how strong she was during IEM Kiev when Moscow 5 abused her, Sona nerfs are on the PBE before the month is even over (January-February 2012)
  3. Arcade Sona came out when right before Sona was considered the best support at worlds 2012, she was nerfed immediately after
  4. Pulsefire Ezreal was released at the end of June 2012, when Ezreal was widely considered one of the best champions in the game. Riot didn't touch him much because worlds would be played soon, and right after worlds he gets nerfed.
  5. Infernal Nasus announced at the end of season 3 (came out late November 2013), Nasus nerfed slightly, the skin sells for a few weeks and Nasus is nerfed in the first patch of Season 4 (Early January 2014)

Whether you want to argue if its correlation or causation is up to you, but it definitely happens

63 Comments

The Ecdysiast24 votes

But you don't understand. The new skin IS the nerf.

That Death animation and sound are so cool that Riven mains will want to die more often.

Trídent5 votes

!!! he speaks the truth!!

RiotRiotRepertoir21 votes

I know the perception isn't necessarily this, and that you have no evidence to really prove this is true, but never in the almost 4 years that I've been here have I heard someone say "hold off on those nerfs until after that champion gets its skin." To say it always happens just can't even be close to true; we've released a ton of skins this year.

In Riven's case in particular, if the balance team decides it's her turn in the next couple of patches, then the events would line up as a data point to support your claim theory. However, even as someone that works at Riot, it's hard to say exactly what should be done about potential situations like this that arise. I don't think it would be any better for us to do a balance pass on a champion every time they receive a skin (would result in a lot of nerfs out of being overly cautious), or not release skins for champions that are on the high/low ends of balance. Putting the balance team in a situation where they have to do their job differently because of the skins release schedule really seems like it would have an adverse effect on them being able to keep gameplay first.

Anyway, if Riven gets a nerf in the next couple of patches, it really doesn't seem like it would have any correlation to her upcoming skin, especially given some of the reasons OP cites.

FalconPawwwwnch6 votes

I can find many examples of cases where a Skin was announced just before a champion was nerfed (or buffed) drastically. Here are a few off the top of my head that I remember in particular

  1. Dragonblade Riven was announced before Riven got nerfed on january 15th, 2014. The Skin was released officially the 28th
  2. Guqin Sona came out when Sona nerfs were being begged for because of how strong she was during IEM Kiev when Moscow 5 abused her, Sona nerfs are on the PBE before the month is even over (January-February 2012)
  3. Arcade Sona came out when right before Sona was considered the best support at worlds 2012, she was nerfed immediately after
  4. Pulsefire Ezreal was released at the end of June 2012, when Ezreal was widely considered one of the best champions in the game. Riot didn't touch him much because worlds would be played soon, and right after worlds he gets nerfed.
  5. Infernal Nasus announced at the end of season 3 (came out late November 2013), Nasus nerfed slightly, the skin sells for a few weeks and Nasus is nerfed in the first patch of Season 4 (Early January 2014)

You can argue whether there is correlation/causation over a new skin coming out/a champion getting nerfed, but to deny that there have been simultaneous occurrences in the past is a lie.

Edit: As for nerfing Riven, a lot could be done with her that has been done to other champions. Making her Q cooldown begin after the 3rd Q (like was done to Jayce's hypercharge) would make her laning phase much more manageable. Making her instant aoe stun have a channel time like you did with Darius's Q would also help give her some counterplay.

I understand as a company that Riven has a huge fanbase, so giving her a drastic change to her gameplay would cause massive lashouts from the playerbase. However, you have to consider the fact that she may have some very abusive mechanics in lane that allow her to win almost all lanes despite having atrocious base stats

GloriousKaiser2 votes

Compare Riven's fanbase to the fanbases of multiple other mains who have to deal with her supposed BS mechanics day in day out. I think that Riot would have to look at Riven eventually. Not saying that's what Riot does but it generally, I like to think G&B is a drop in a glass of pure H20. And the minorities are bacteria.

RiotRiotRepertoir11 votes

Sorry, I'm not denying that these instances occur where a skin for a champion comes out and that the champion gets nerfed within a patch or two. With how often we release skins, and how often we make balance changes, these things seem like they are bound to overlap. All I'm really saying is there isn't some guy behind the scenes at Riot requesting that we hold off on nerfing a champion on account of its upcoming skin release.

As for Riven-specific suggestions, I'm not sure exactly what we should do if we end up nerfing her, but hopefully it would be something that ends up making her feel more fair, since that seems to be the biggest complaint about her.

Rivvy2 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, I'm not denying that these instances occur where a skin for a champion comes out and that the champion gets nerfed within a patch or two. With how often we release skins, and how often we make balance changes, these things seem like they are bound to overlap. All I'm really saying is there isn't some guy behind the scenes at Riot requesting that we hold off on nerfing a champion on account of its upcoming skin release.

As for Riven-specific suggestions, I'm not sure exactly what we should do if we end up nerfing her, but hopefully it would be something that ends up making her feel more fair, since that seems to be the biggest complaint about her.

I feel like instead of nerfing Riven, she should receive a rework. Kind of like Fiora. When I look at Riven in terms of balance, I see a mess of numbers and features that, if nerfed or buffed, can be overbearingly weak or strong.

RedCyclone2 votes

Sona was nerfed on the day they announced DJ Sona Just thought i would add that

Roman Holiday 173 votes

Lol u just rekt him.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

I know the perception isn't necessarily this, and that you have no evidence to really prove this is true, but never in the almost 4 years that I've been here have I heard someone say "hold off on those nerfs until after that champion gets its skin." To say it always happens just can't even be close to true; we've released a ton of skins this year.

In Riven's case in particular, if the balance team decides it's her turn in the next couple of patches, then the events would line up as a data point to support your claim theory. However, even as someone that works at Riot, it's hard to say exactly what should be done about potential situations like this that arise. I don't think it would be any better for us to do a balance pass on a champion every time they receive a skin (would result in a lot of nerfs out of being overly cautious), or not release skins for champions that are on the high/low ends of balance. Putting the balance team in a situation where they have to do their job differently because of the skins release schedule really seems like it would have an adverse effect on them being able to keep gameplay first.

Anyway, if Riven gets a nerf in the next couple of patches, it really doesn't seem like it would have any correlation to her upcoming skin, especially given some of the reasons OP cites.

Not to put a damper on your parade, but Riot absolutely nerfed Sona right before the DJ Sona skin was released. I think it was literally the patch before, maybe two. A lot of nerfs out of being overly cautious? Riot knew that Sona's playrate was going to skyrocket with the new skin so they gutted her and she hasn't been touched since.

Diananmen Square20 votes

I believe it will happen because of how many indirect buffs she is getting lately.

Armor nerfs, She now fits into the meta, Garen's silence is nerfed and Darius' Q is delayed now so she can shield it. (Two of her counters).

Troll for Trump1 votes

Those are her main counters. Renekton isn't a good counter. I guess panth is still ther, but that's it.

Sulghunter2 votes

Am I the only one here who can pull off Quinn top to counter Riven?

Diananmen Square1 votes

I actually prefer playing her mid (I play blind pick only) because I just Vault away from anyone trying to go all-in on me.

Confron7a7ion75 votes

Play Chogath VS her. Rivens are fairly predictable. First they will charge 2 of their hops then try to knock you up. Thats when you place the Q under you. This works for about 5 times then they will try to mix a dash into the combo. Usually behind you. Then they get frustrated and start roaming.

Demigryph1 votes

What are you talking about.. Xin Zhao, Jayce, Teemo. and rework fiora all have a fun time into riven.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Xz is jgl, if hes top then yeah. XZ and Jayce are rarelyplayed at all these days,because they are so bad against anything else. But if the enemy autolocks riven first pick, then you can pick these situational counters, but they are both bad for the meta.(xin jgl is really strong,but top isn't that good) rework fiora yes, I forgot about her Teemo is more of a skill matchup. Good rivens can completley destroy teemo. At lower elos tho teemo usually comes out top.

Crowe Stalker19 votes

Thank the Based Rito Gods if they do nerf her finally...

Fadedpf7 votes

That's assuming Riot actually does decide to balance her. Shes been unhealthy for a long time now.

Lotus Blade4 votes

i think riven is fine where she is, she doesnt need nerfs whatsoever but thats my opinion :^)

GenghisEmo3 votes

She needs to be made to make her weaknesses stand out a bit more. I can kite a greedy Riven, and they are not punished enough for playing overly aggressive even when i kite, bait, or hug turret. The only time they really regret diving the top lane, is when i play Normal and choose Leona (then stun and slow for days XD).

Moroguna1 votes

Somebody on the board suggested an energy bar like Lee Sin or Kennen would be good on her. I totally agree on that.

Lotus Blade1 votes

that would kinda make riven not the riven we know the one that rushes 40cdr and spams everything it would make her weak i think but not a bad idea even though shes like yasuo something related to windpower so i dont see energy going in with her some how ,, i think rito wouldnt do it.

GenghisEmo1 votes

Making a champ that barely worries about playing smart into a champ that has to be played smart is not making her weak, it is making her a skill based champ XD

GenghisEmo1 votes

Yeah, that would be a pretty good idea. Had they had mana, that may be a bit too much. But Energy, it seems like it will help weaknesses stand out while making her more skill based instead of just being a champ you dont play smart as (unless countered by a Gnar, then that;s the only time you actually play smart as Riven).

JacctheInsomniac4 votes

[deleted]

Deaeras2 votes

{quoted}

Remove her animation cancelling, give her some heatlh regen and reduce her AD Scalings. Her kit lends itself to being a kindof team support, AOE CC Fighter. With all that done, I think her mobility won't be as much of a problem either anymore because it would not be tied to instagib potential.

Her role in a fight should be to string together a long combo on a single target. While trying to disable as many secondary targets as possible. Either a assassin diving your squishy, or an unprotected squishy. Removing her animation cancelling means she has to eek out every single cast and auto, which would greatly extend the length of her combo, giving her target a lot of time to react.

This is what I want to see done to Riven anyway. I agree she is cancerous as is, but after having played her I can confidently say I am not the super OP broken Riven that the boards are talking about. (Basically remove her runaway potential, and give her a consistent role.)

I feel as if she should have her only animation cancelling being 1 on her E so that she can cancel 1 animation, (except for her ulti) and giving her W the ability to cancel Hydra animation. Otherwise I still think shes perfectly healthy except for the advantages her animation cancelling gives her in lane, just because a squishy can do high AOE dmg doesn't they're op.

CasterGilgamesh4 votes

riven is actually in a bad spot to be honest riot might nerf her but they would have to give her some buffs since one nerf and she would become worthless she already have all around shitty base stats and her cooldowns are insanely high without cooldown reduction.even alot of people think shes already worthless.at this point hating riven is just a meme.Darius is getting a buff and i dont care what hate i get but seriously fuck Garen and his broken silence why they give a silence on a tank who can already just eat up damage is beyound me and his Q cd is so low its borderline perma silence in 1 vs 1 fights where he only needs to silence one person riven has no sustain and on top of her already buterched health regen she just dies so fast.but i know im just going to get down voted for saying the truth since this community has mostly been the league of losers that whine about champions that have already been nerfed just because you lose one game against them.

The Fast2 votes
  1. Darius and Garen are getting early game nerfs, and mid-late game buffs.
  2. Garen silence is getting its duration reduced to 1.5 at all ranks.
  3. Garen is not a tank, he's a bruiser. His kit is made specifically so he can build damage while taking it.
  4. Listing a champion's counters is not reasoning as to why they are not overpowered.
  5. And lastly, yeah, Riven probably needs a power shift, instead of a straight nerf. Something to make her less annoying without directly removing everything she needs.
CasterGilgamesh1 votes

im not a riven main really seen enough bad rivens though plus i did play her for awhile till she got nerfed to the ground fighting garens silence as any champion is insanely frustrating because of his major movement speed buff and tenacity

The Fast1 votes

Well the silence is now shorter, and the tenacity is gone. So you have that to look forward to.

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

good but now they need to remove that dumb farming mechanic its dumb as fuck and just let him get the bonus armor and magic resist

The Fast1 votes

I mean, its a nerf to his armor past 150 armor, but a buff to his MR since he generally doesn't build 150MR. There are good and bad sides to it. Besides, 120 minions for 30 of both resists is pretty good.

Mr Broken Wings4 votes

The sad thing is, she already is in a bad spot, statistics back this up. Well...I guess she will get leblanced because salty silvers cry rivers till riot does what they want.

dEAdbUs2 votes

Salty silvers? Check this out: http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Top&sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend She's most popular toplaner in Plat+ elo. With nice winrate for that pickrate.

Mr Broken Wings4 votes

{quoted}

Salty silvers? Check this out: http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=Top&sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend She's most popular toplaner in Plat+ elo. With nice winrate for that pickrate.

I wont repost statistics AGAIN. People, its just a fact that you need to spend 4-5 x more time on riven to make her work. This champion is pure garbage and has a high winrate because the playerbase of riven has an average of 200 games with her ffs. For comparison, Irelias playerbase has something around 40 and has the same winrate. If rivens playerbase would have the same amount of games with her compared to the other champions her winrate would be hyper garbage tier btw. Overnerfed champion and I proved that more then once on this boards, wont do it again.

NemeBro3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mr Broken Wings,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U7o7pE82,comment-id=001000000000,timestamp=2015-08-11T21:05:38.776+0000)

I wont repost statistics AGAIN. People, its just a fact that you need to spend 4-5 x more time on riven to make her work. This champion is pure garbage and has a high winrate because the playerbase of riven has an average of 200 games with her ffs. For comparison, Irelias playerbase has something around 40 and has the same winrate. If rivens playerbase would have the same amount of games with her compared to the other champions her winrate would be hyper garbage tier btw. Overnerfed champion and I proved that more then once on this boards, wont do it again.

The last time you tried to post your statistics around me I crushed them so badly you couldn't even respond. You claimed that Riven players need to have over 125 games to reach Irelia's average win rate, a claim that was laughably false then and is laughably false now. Riven players don't even average out as the most experienced players of their champion (not even among top laners), and even if they did, so what? Riven is a high skillcap champion. Only butthurt losers deny that. At 15-50 games Riven players average at over 51%, and the number just gets higher as they get more experienced.

Riven isn't overpowered or broken, but this whiny "my main is so bad guys believe me!" shit is boring.

Sakura Mirage3 votes

Lol somebody sees it

Rivvy3 votes

and once they nerf Riven, people will start complaining about tryndamere. I can't wait for the circlejerk to run his way. c:

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

Let's hope Vayne is the next one.

Trebbi2 votes

I find cho gath to be a good counter to her early game.

Saianna4 votes

Out of curiousity:

When u play Cho vs Riven do you get oom often? Or do u preserve mana as much as possible?

Trebbi2 votes

I never use Q unless she is silenced and basically only silence when she is on top of me or when she goes on me.

I have dorans ring + passive to help with mana issues, but I can go oom at times, but by then my HP lead is so big that my superior auto attacks will kill her if she dives in.

Unless you get ganked or she has ignite she will have a hard time killing you the entire laning phase with a passive aggressive playstyle.

I also go W then E then Q and just max W.

Adrian Umbra1 votes

As someone who played during the period where PFE was released, saying that Ezrael was considered incredibly strong before PFE is a flat out lie. Ez gained a lot of popularity BECAUSE of the skin and as people realized how strong his W was (ATTACK SPEED SLOW) and started to really learn him. He's generally never been nerfed so hard that he's lost viability on top of that, meaning your claim there is totally invalid. You also have Sona up there twice, so what happened there? Early 2012 nerfs not hit her very hard at all?

It's almost as if these are coincidence...

Ironclad Dragon1 votes

It's the natural cycle. Should be an expectation now. It's the skin's admittance fee.

2ManyJons1 votes

You forgot about the best one where they released Dragon Slayer Pantheon and then almost gutted him by taking away his ability to use his abilities during drops.

BurningRice1 votes

6 years and only 5 instances you can cite? There's your answer.

The Taco Kat1 votes

Her shield cooldown could (A) be a static cooldown of its current bases (similar to how Yasuo's E works) or (B) make the shield (80?) % Total AD, but give it NO base strength or (C) make her ultimate have increases by 2%/2.25%/2.5% missing HP per 1% missing HP, instead of 2.67% missing HP per 1% missing HP (that scale may not be needed, and could just be the 2% per 1% missing) or, finally, (D) make her ult base damage not be affected by the 200% increase damage.

Demigryph1 votes

I feel like they already nerfed Riven, the biggest nerf to Riven is Fiora's repost rework, Riven's last Q gives the biggest broadcast "I'm about to CC you." Just stand under it and W counter stun her, you've turned her minuscule knock-back into a hard stun, beat the crap out of her. That's why Riven's winrate fell after the fiora rework. A smart fiora win or lose lane is going to be a real challenge for riven to stop late, fiora simply scales better. Riven is all about ruining your early mid game. and then ending early before she falls of.

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