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Riot nobody likes playing 5~10~15 minute games

Rexxiee··79 votes·4,069 views

Stop with it with making the average game time lower and lower, i like it on how when a red responded to it was like "well its only like a minute average game time down its not that much", well you guys should be trying to make it last longer, not LESS, if im not mistaken the average game time right now is around 24 minutes, which is absurd, 24 minutes used to be full STOMPS in season 2~3.

Theres nothing fun from auto losing games to early game junglers that just gank every lane and decides which team wins in 5~10 minutes because junglers kill laners too easily and can camp for free, meanwhile theres almost nothing you can do to stop yourself from being camped or being snowballed on.

Back then the games felt like a full experience, we had the long laning phase of 15~20 minutes, that properly transitioned into split/squirmish into finally the late game with games going into 35/40 min mark where every champ had a chance to impact the map, now the games just ends in deathballs by the winning team before the 20 min mark, before most of the ppl can even do anything to impact the game outside of junglers and a few others.

87 Comments

Daddy Ants40 votes

35-40 minutes are the ideal length games.

sir d wreck9 votes

This is the perfect average game length imo. Most games would feel long enough to feel like anyone's game to win. Currently some games you can just feel it's over within a few minutes - this should almost never be the case. It feels currently like any fuck up early is just a throw... throws are supposed to be a late game fuck up not early game.

Laura ß3 votes

games last 35-40 minutes? nah they are decided once bot tower is destroyed wich happens at 10 minutes top, the rest of time is what takes the enemy to finish the game but its been decided already so gam actualy do last 5-10 minutes

EkyonKun20 votes

Don't mind me. Just leaving this here for everyone to look at.

https://imgur.com/a/VjxlL

Rexxiee16 votes

{quoted}

Don't mind me. Just leaving this here for everyone to look at.

https://imgur.com/a/VjxlL

Its completely absurd the higher elo you go.

You can pretty much see which team is going to win in the first 5~10 minutes of the game 9 out of 10 games.

Junglers just completely decide the game at that point, which is why everyone picks lee/kha/elise/nidalee/whatever can gank early game to win, and theres nothing you can do when the lee gets every lane ahead because your jungler was worse or didnt pick a early game jungler and they just 5 man deathball mid or bot while you lose 6 towers before the 15 min mark.

Poske2 votes

{quoted}

Its completely absurd the higher elo you go.

You can pretty much see which team is going to win in the first 5~10 minutes of the game 98 out of 100 games.

There fixed it for ya you are being to generous

MohawkBird9 votes

[deleted]

BestPudgeNA2 votes

{quoted}

Holy shit that is just plain ridiculous. I'm kinda at a loss for words after seeing that BS. Yet Riot still doesn't seen to fix/address it at all yet.

It's also not accurate.

General Esdeath 6 votes

It kinda is

Toppien15 votes

the game is so snowbally and bursty that is not even fun anymore, its just frustration and stress

[sg-soraka]

CHODES AND LOADS2 votes

lol burst. burst lol.

sometimes theres a grey area between "my guys are being attacked" and "my guys are already dead" where pressing R on taric actually accomplishes anything. i mean ive heard tales of such a thing, but the enemy team is always a blob of duskblade and zoe bullshit that doesnt even give you a chance to react if you make the heinous mistake of allowing the enemy a single opportunity to attack you

HalcyonDweller11 votes

Reducing gold earned on champion kills would do a lot to slow down the pace of the game. If people reach item spikes more slowly games will be longer and easier to balance. You will wind up with a lot less feast/famine situations where snowballing gets out of control and makes a match feel terribly unfair.

Rexxiee14 votes

{quoted}

Reducing gold earned on champion kills would do a lot to slow down the pace of the game. If people reach item spikes more slowly games will be longer and easier to balance. You will wind up with a lot less feast/famine situations where snowballing gets out of control and makes a match feel terribly unfair.

No.

You need to reward ppl for killing others so the reward part is fine, but it shouldnt be so easy.

Junglers kill laners too easily atm.

Basically jungler early game needs to be nerfed, towers need to be buffed, and the passive/ambient gold gain should be lowered by a bit.

meowwow75 votes

i haven't really died to many ganks here lately but zombie wards and ingenious hunter help with keeping their paths warded

HalcyonDweller4 votes

Ouch dude, maybe don't shit on an idea just because you disagree with it? I'm not saying get rid of it entirely, I literally said "reduce."

And your solution isn't the only one. Just saying....

I'm on-board with tower buffs and maybe on-board with ambient gold nerfs, but I'm not convinced the rest of those ideas are needed. Reducing snowballing would do a lot to limit the impact of junglers already.

Actually my only reservation with the ambient gold nerfs is that it makes players even more snowball reliant to scale or remain useful into the late game. If they earn less gold on average, it will make the impact of kill boons even more pronounced. I don't want feast or famine to get worse.

Rexxiee8 votes

{quoted}

Ouch dude, maybe don't shit on an idea just because you disagree with it? I'm not saying get rid of it entirely, I literally said "reduce."

And your solution isn't the only one. Just saying....

I'm on-board with tower buffs and maybe on-board with ambient gold nerfs, but I'm not convinced the rest of those ideas are needed. Reducing snowballing would do a lot to limit the impact of junglers already.

Actually my only reservation with the ambient gold nerfs is that it makes players even more snowball reliant to scale or remain useful into the late game. If they earn less gold on average, it will make the impact of kill boons even more pronounced. I don't want feast or famine to get worse.

If you reduce kill gold them ppl are just gonna play passive, that would be awful.

Kills existing is fine, and not always you get ahead, but ambient gold is something everyone gets for just existing, and the more you have of it the faster the game becomes.

Back in s2 the ambient gold was like half of what it is nowdays, ppl would get BF swords in like 10 minutes of lane while now you can get an IE in 11 if you get a double kill + good farm, when you can complete items so fast it means you can kill ppl and towers fast, or just buy tank and completely ignore towers, thats why games are so fast now.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

Oh I see, that makes more sense then. Thanks for elaborating!

Hügö4 votes

As if junglers would decide anything right now. In 95% of the time when the jungler reaches his second buff somewhere someone gave up first blood and starts snowballing.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Don't think so. The game should move some more back to actually being able to CS. It's depressing to see people 50 Cs down but still ahead in gold because the only thing matters is killing people left and right.

JoeMG2 votes

{quoted}

Reducing gold earned on champion kills would do a lot to slow down the pace of the game. If people reach item spikes more slowly games will be longer and easier to balance. You will wind up with a lot less feast/famine situations where snowballing gets out of control and makes a match feel terribly unfair. I've made posts about this before. In other competitive games I've played (Overwatch for example), kills don't give rewards. Killing the enemy team simply allows objectives to be pushed much easier.

If kills didn't give any direct reward, players would only gain advantages from cs and objectives. Personally, I think that would drastically help with the snowball factor and could help put more emphasis on towers and strategy rather than becoming the slayer match it feels like now.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

I'm opposed to taking all reward out of kills, because as Rexxiee has pointed out, that would encourage passive play and would make games boring.

What I think we need is to strike a better balance between large reward and no reward for champion kills.

But I agree it feels like a slayer match currently, and that is a problem.

PB4UAME1 votes

If player kills weren't worth gold they would still be necessary.

Its simple math. If you want to take a tower, how easy is it to do if their whole team defends it? Thats 5 + T vs just your 5, and we all know how bad that fight would be between equal teams--even with the current state of towers. What about in lane, then it's only 1 vs 1 + T or 2 vs 2 + T, and since the towers in all situations are the same, what you'll actually notice, is its even worse of an imbalance during laning.

Basically, you need the other team to not to be there to successfully and easily push, otherwise they will have a numerical advantage with their towers, and the only way to guarantee they aren't able to defend their towers is to kill them, or at least force them back temporarily. Honestly, a routed enemy is as good as a dead one in the short term, something this game does not currently reflect with kill bounties; yet the entirety of the value of a kill in LoL far outstrips the mere 300g price tag it holds. Even without the extra gold, they would still be a strategic goal to enable one's team to more safely pressure objectives.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

If player kills are not worth gold, players will have too much motive to play passive in the early game and simply scale for teamfighting. Taking gold out of kills would just further reduce everybody's agency over their laning phase.

DarkRooster8 votes

There was one comment a while ago '''Just tone down whole game damage for 20%'' more i think about it, more I like it. Of course the first effect would be it would feel absolutely weird, but that would definitely fuck all the snowball fast down just like that.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

That's an interesting way to fix it. I'm intrigued.

VoraciousX1 votes

{quoted}

There was one comment a while ago '''Just tone down whole game damage for 20%'' more i think about it, more I like it. Of course the first effect would be it would feel absolutely weird, but that would definitely fuck all the snowball fast down just like that.

There's a problem with this. It'd slow down the game but it'd likely create a tank meta and I'd appreciate it if I could actually kill a Maokai and Mundo.

ROX Prime1 votes

I dont think it would cause a tank meta simply because tanks already do alot of dmg, more dmg than most bruisers, have u ever played shen vs any bruiser? he out dmgs, out tanks, if he has grasp he out sustains, he out ranges most top lane bruisers by 25 or 50 units and as if being tank wasnt enough two of his ablities say fuck your aa's. People dont play tanks cause there blinded by the rational i need to carry so i have to play yas and zed. riot even stated they raised tank base dmg so ppl would play them but people still dont.

MAGA MAN X 20202 votes

You realize Shen is designed to counter AA heavy champs right? It's almost like he has a spell that completely stops their damage. Why would you use such a blatantly awful argument to complain about balance?

ROX Prime1 votes

Well fighters only go jungle and top and shen goes top i think, could be wrong. Malph aa slow, ramus galio taunt and dmg reduction ww sej hard cc? Most tanks have mechanics to counter aas. Also it was not an origanal argument it was make by wickd icu decker hashinshn i.e people ranked higher than you.

VoraciousX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ROX Prime,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U2hsT1T9,comment-id=0001000200010000,timestamp=2017-12-29T13:19:04.014+0000)

I dont think it would cause a tank meta simply because tanks already do alot of dmg, more dmg than most bruisers, have u ever played shen vs any bruiser? he out dmgs, out tanks, if he has grasp he out sustains, he out ranges most top lane bruisers by 25 or 50 units and as if being tank wasnt enough two of his ablities say fuck your aa's. People dont play tanks cause there blinded by the rational i need to carry so i have to play yas and zed. riot even stated they raised tank base dmg so ppl would play them but people still dont.

The point is, they raised tank damage, a 20% all around reduction in damage would mean tanks TAKE LESS damage, making them extremely overpowered which would then create a tank meta. No one would be able to hurt them and they'd still do the same damage in comparison to every other champion as they did before. Less damage would buff tank's defenses more than it would everyone else's. Can you imagine a Nasus with full defensive items(except his Trinity Force of course) running around unable to die because he has a ton of defense, MR, nice amount of lifesteal, and an ult that increases his defenses(and raises his max health by 600) by up to 100 each by the end of his ulti vs EVERYONE who does 20% LESS damage to him? Or a Maokai/Mundo running around with insane health regen and being unable to die because in addition to taking tons less damage(20% is a lot), they also heal like madmen.

PopcornBunni10 votes

To be fair, the games now ARE full stomps. There is no such thing as a comeback in 2018.

Cavesloth7 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, the games now ARE full stomps. There is no such thing as a comeback in 2018.

Exactly. I don't think the game length is the problem, just a symptom. The problem why the game feels terrible is that once you are behind, that's it. I am one of those people who was always trying to hold out and make a comeback, but since the preseason it never happens.

This is the problem. There needs to be a comeback mechanic (or they just need to be made possible again) to make the game feel less hopeless if your losing, and less like going through the motions if your winning. Without a chance for comeback even winning doesn't feel rewarding because you for the most part you didn't have to work for it.

Its like the difference between buying computer with your own money you worked hard and earned, or getting it as gift for doing nothing. I guarantee the guy who earned it appreciates it and the one who didn't, doesn't.

Its clear they want shorter games, and we might be able to deal with that IF comebacks were possible. Because right now the game feels a bit like tic tac toe. Whoever makes the first move automatically wins unless they are just flat out stupid.

hoyohai1 votes

I believe it's because Riot removed catchup EXP

Cavesloth5 votes

{quoted}

I believe it's because Riot removed catchup EXP

I thought they just nerfed it, but w/e its just one of many things that made the game so snowbally and made comebacks nearly impossible. I just had one in URF, haven't had one since preseason started, but to have one in urf, well maybe we could learn a thing or two from that.

Śhunpo2 votes

They nerfed catchup EXP because it was bullshit in the jungle.

MrHaZeYo9 votes

This. Extend the average games jesus.

I miss Season 3/4.

Mogs01gt1 votes

lol I think that is about the time I stopped playing SR. Matches took way to long back then. 15-20 minute matches is perfect.

AleksaTeemo2 votes

You have twisted treeline for it.

WacingTheFind9 votes

Remove that stupid minion autopush mechanic, and the game duration should increase.

Ayame Isaki2 votes

So much this.

Akumu8 votes

'actually damage is fine its just supports skewing damage numbers' - Riot 2017

Hey Riot fuck you. No Just no.

big boi edri4 votes

I think the average time is more like 27-28 minutes or around there. Just a touch less than last season 29/30 min average.

The question though is how many games were already lost at 15 minutes.

Nea1045 votes

{quoted}

I think the average time is more like 27-28 minutes or around there. Just a touch less than last season 29/30 min average.

The question though is how many games were already lost at 15 minutes.

Yes, indeed. Maybe a game lasts for 35 min, but actually it's already lost at 10-15. The rest is just a painful agony :P

ghosthunter5231 votes

15 to 20 mins of farming LOL, hey man if you want to play farmvile thats you dont make the rest of us suffer

Rexxiee10 votes

{quoted}

15 to 20 mins of farming LOL, hey man if you want to play farmvile thats you dont make the rest of us suffer

Just because for you laning = just farming (probably a tank player LOL) doesnt mean it is just that.

Laning is fun when you're playing a skill matchup like irelia vs jax top for example, but you probably just play shit like maokai and dont know what fun laning phase is.

ghosthunter5232 votes

{quoted}

Just because for you laning = just farming (probably a tank player LOL) doesnt mean it is just that.

Laning is fun when you're playing a skillmatchup like irelia vs jax top for example, but you probably just play shit like maokai and dont know what fun laning phase is.

Laning for 15 to 20 minutes is boring as shit, you know whats more fun? team fighting, exciting team fights is what is hype. i do not want to be laning for 20 minutes, it gets stale. and not every matchup is a skill matchup, Its not that laning isn't "fun" its that if im stomping my lane or losing hard in my lane I dont want to sit there the whole game and continue stomping/getting stomped. Team fighting gives losing lanes a chance to "catchup" per say. If you make laning 20 minutes long, 2v2 and 1v1 champions get better than team fighting champions that cannot 1v1 as well as their opponents.

Darkeus11 votes

Go play Heroes of the Storm or Battlerite then. Right up your alley.

Wrong game here, for now...

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

So in short you are bad at laning and want your team to deathball the enemy. Gotcha.

ghosthunter5231 votes

{quoted}

So in short you are bad at laning and want your team to deathball the enemy. Gotcha.

Yeah I do, what you want me to extend the game for late game hyper carries to bend me over? The point of snowballing is to end before the enemies catch up. I played a game where the enemy kayn was full build 26 mins in 20/0 and we won the game because we got to late game and I was playing trist. He had a lot of chances to end but didn't and extended the game. If games start getting longer because laning phase is longer then won't late game champions get a "buff"

Also laning is fun and all for me it's nice to have a 1v1 or 2v2 but once someone gets ahead what do you really want to lane for another 10 mins getting starved out of cs and become weaker and weaker. Hell no id rather group and try to come back from my laning phase.

Great Ozymandius1 votes

I like to Nasus top, which is a farming champion, but laning is fun because farming as nasus early is so fraught and it pays off big if you can make it work. That said, in this meta it generally doesn't matter if I farm well because bot lane is either 6-0 or 0-6 by 8 minutes and there's pretty much nothing you can do as nasus if bot lane starts snowballing that hard that early.

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