Meddler threatens to delete Sona (long post)

SnugglePuggle94··15 votes·5,917 views

@Meddler @Riot. Respond please.

Many people have been asking about Sona and her rework/buffs. Just like Cass and other champions, Riot has been beating around the bush and not giving us straight answers, and ignoring our favorite mages in turn to please the LC$BIGPLAYS people and the championship divisions. Here is what Meddler finally told us after months of ignoring:

"There might also be room for some small QoL or buffs, and I expect Sona will be discussed again internally after preseason follow up's on a good track (though I'm personally doubtful we've got much power to work with and simply buffing Sona until she feels good's going to set her up for a nerf)."

(http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EkxbfyvO-so-lemme-get-this-straight)

In response to this, I found a summoner, Pika310, who responded to Meddler, and claims that Riot wants to delete Sona from the game:

"Meddler has already publicly stated that Rito doesn't want Sona to exist in their game anymore. They know she's the weakest support and he's openly threatened that if this ever changes, they will immediately hammer her in the back of the head with yet more nerfs(again.)"

(http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/4JTMeLvw-sona-w-buff-proposal)

Another summoner responded to Pika, saying that they never recalled Meddler threatening to do that. "Um... I don't really see where he said that they don't want Sona to exist anymore, that she's the weakest support. He just said that she got stronger with the changes and if she did get more changes they would be nerfs because she doesn't need buffs. ANd, well looking at her statistics, Sona... doesn't really need buffs right now." (Same cite as above)

Pika replied in significant detail: "Such is the blind Rito-worshipping of a bleating sheep. Here, I'll help break things down and translate:

It's common knowledge Sona is the weakest support, if not the weakest character in the entire game. She is numerically or mathematically either the worst or 2nd-worst in every individual stat and this adds up to a champ that more likely than not has the absolute lowest amount of spent power budget of all 129 characters. Rito knows this, but they intentionally made her this way out of hatred.

Rito's hatred of Sona is clear for countless visible reasons: She's never received a true buff in the entire history of the game. Even when other characters receive standardization or compensations, they refuse to give them to her until more than a year later if ever. Fearless made COUNTLESS promises to Sona fans and broke every single one of them, then was immediately promoted for a failed rework that failed to do anything more than gut a champ into oblivion and incur severe anger from their playerbase. Rito refuses to objectively discuss Sona, they blatantly ignored every Sona thread within something like a 10-month timespan. Every time a community-wide demand for Sona buffs has risen, Rito decides on repeatedly nerfing her instead. On the off-chance a Ritoer doesn't comment on a Sona thread, they repeat the exact same lies and hotword propaganda every single time, completely ignoring the OP, comments or replies and refusing to stick around or check back in for discussion.

Even Rito's skins team intentionally downgraded ALL of her skins in an attempt to sell more copies of DJ because they realize 4.13 severely negatively impacted the sales on it. Considering this and also considering the return on ultimate skins in general is very low, they even gave it the lowest release-price reduction of any ultimate skin to date, otherwise its profits were guaranteed to stay in the red, which they probably still are regardless.

Moving on to translating Meddler's post: he has access to data in the game, he knows as well as anyone else that the mastery changes affected Sona THE LEAST out of any support champ. These masteries' impact are directly affected by a champ's own base stats and scalings, of which as I previously stated Sona is either 1st or 2nd lowest in every single one of these numbers. He intentionally brought up the changes specifically and lied about them, because he knew it would be the easiest thing for the bleating sheep of these forums to manipulate and help continue nurturing players to hate Sona in the same way Rito does.

Stating that Rito intends to nerf Sona has a dual-purpose: he knows as a Ritoer that bleating sheep will blindly listen to his words and draw their own misleading assumptions assuming that their false deity has sincere intentions, when in truth they are 100% bigoted. Secondly, it's meant as a threat to intimidate Sona advocates from continuing to demand Rito set aside their hatred and discrimination to make her playable again. Rito's hatred of Sona is very deep-seated and they have no intention of sacrificing their arrogance to admit they screwed up, especially to say that they did so on purpose, all for a champion that they are very likely to eventually remove from THEIR game. Yes, I said "THEIR" game because the "balance" team believes it's their own personal plaything to manipulate as they see fit and we the players are only PERMITTED to play it."

(My post/thoughts): So, even if Meddler comments on this thread to lie or refute these claims, the proof is there about the bias hatred towards Sona, and other champions alike. It's about time Riot stops beating around the bush and help the champs that actually need it, and actually do something after they listen to us, instead of lying and ignoring.

Fellow Summoners, you can think what you want. All I ask, is to stand up with us and help get Riot to not remove one of the most fun and interesting mage/support in the game, and actually buff her for once. Maybe if Meddler/other Rioters actually listen and do something to help, the more happy the playerbase will be.

TL/DR: Long story short, Meddler and Riot has constantly lied to us and ignored the playerbase's suggestions for Sona. They have never buffed her, and constantly nerf. Some of you may think she is not weak, but in reality, she is.

So, Meddler, I challenge you to respond. Tell us why you ignore us, why you constantly nerf champions to the dirt, why you promise over and over again but never follow up with your claims.

EDIT: Sona haters/people who like to negatively comment and abuse others-don't post on my thread. It is not necessary and is unsportsmanlike. You will get downvoted and reported.

Also, stop with the downvotes on my post. It's also unnecessary and downright rude.

EDIT: I seriously hate the people on here. Downvote and attack for no reason. I am challenging Meddler to respond, not all of you. Pika has decent evidence on the bias towards Sona, and why I used her/his words is because they speak truth. You want numbers? Here you go.

Sona has the weakest heal in the game ( Champion.gg):

Sona heal: 9582.8 Nami heal: 10902.44 Taric heal: 13404.53 Soraka heal: 22992.86

One of the lowest play rates (besides Taric):

Sona: 6.37% Nami: 7.09% Soraka: 8.49%

Weakest shield in the game:

Sona: 35/55/75/90/115 (+20% AP)(+10/20/40) Janna: 80/100/160/200/240 (+70%AP) And many more, all of better shields: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shield

I will not go into any more detail now. Sona is one of the weakest supports in the game. It's about time something is changed.

FINAL EDIT: Criticizing my post is being rude and abusive. Downvoting everything I say is downright rude. Saying I don't know anything about Sona is the definition of being a rude person. Calling me a whiny child, a nonsensical ranty person, or any other thing is mean. I am posting about one of my favorite champions and all of you are attacking me for no good reason other than to help yourself feel better by putting someone down. I have defended myself from your words, and have not tried to harm people like all of you have, save for a few. There are so many other posts that provide TONS of numbers, statistics, etc. I am simply just providing some people's opinions about Meddler to show that there are people out there that think this is true so more are educated and can see that Riot does these kinds of things. I don't need numbers for this kind of thing because I wanted people to agree with Pika and me, not say "Oh where's the facts? You're stupid and have no brain."

I am astounded at the hostility of this community, and downright ashamed of all of you.

-100 votes. Ridiculous.

539 Comments

SnugglePuggle947 votes

Get out of here. If you have nothing nice to say or post, don't say it at all.

Serevas23 votes

I'm just saying, it's as though you either didn't read Meddler's post at all, are actually trolling, don't understand the English language, or are actually living in a fantasy world and are posting your own hallucinations.

SnugglePuggle947 votes

I don't deserve the downvotes or the negativity from you all. I'm simply trying to get Meddler to respond and to help others get educated on how Riot does things. I did read Meddler's post. I'm not trolling. I'm fighting for Sona and the playerbase.

HigeR20 votes

you are not, you are raising false claims and pointing fingers at meddler for no reason at all but the words of some random dude on the forums, not only that but you are NOT supported by Sona's numbers or math as you call it as shown on her champion.gg page

The only negativity here are your salty comments about a support that is perfectly fine and that requires skill to use effectively.

SnugglePuggle947 votes

I said not to negatively comment. Downvoted and reported.

I posted numbers, since all of you attack me for no reason. She is not fine and is mega weak. Meddler has beaten around the bush, so has Riot. Things need changed.

My claims are not false. They are true. You are just a Sona hater that wants to put other people down to make yourself feel better.

HigeR17 votes

false claims since I'm not a Sona hater because I play her A LOT, as a matter of fact I went from Gold to Platinum thanks to Sona.

Onto the numbers you posted, those are isolated, you compare her heal to others and her shield to others, but the reality is that she has BOTH at the same time, weather you are able to apply them or not depends on your skill, but together they're one of the strongest combinations you can get out of a support, since the shield that you despise so much applies to a total of 5 teammates, therefore you'd have to multiply it by 5 in order to get the true value AND EVEN THEN YOU FORGOT WINDSPEAKER'S BLESSING THAT INCREASES ALL OF HER ALLIES RESISTANCES IF SHE ACCORDINGLY HITS THEM WITH THE AURA.

you also seem to forget the fact that she has a haste and an AREA stun with quite the long range.

If you don't want negative comments start stating facts, the only one getting reported for being this salty is you.

SnugglePuggle948 votes

I haven't been salty. You all have been.

I know her heal targets more than one. I fucking play her good Lord. I know about Windspeakers. But all of that combined, even Soraka's ult outclasses Sona's.

I know all her spells.

I have stated facts. You all just attack me for no reason.

HigeR14 votes

Soraka outclasses Sona because healing is the ONLY thing Soraka is good at, unlike Sona who has damage, utility AND HEALING.

you keep saying it's for no reason, but the community have had enough of this conspiracy theory. Sona is fine.

SnugglePuggle948 votes

She is not fine. I know Soraka's identity.

Sona has weak damage. Only CC is her stun that has high CD, and most won't use her passive on her E.

Yes, they attack me because they are Sona haters and want to make themselves feel better by putting others down.

Also, there are a lot that have had enough of Riot's balance and still want justice for Sona.

HigeR12 votes

Sona has the highest damage output out of all the support (real supports) how hypocritical you need to be to say that she has weak damage? and then deeming an AoE STUN with crazy dmg potential as "only CC" are you kidding me?

Who says that no one uses her other power chords? the fact that YOU don't means that you have no clue how to play as Sona, I personally use Tempo quite a lot and against fed enemies I make sure I hit them with Diminuendo first.

Lich bane is not just good with Staccato since half her damage comes from Power chord itself, learn to play her and then maybe base your crazy theories on facts.

Miku Hime sama10 votes
HigeR3 votes

[deleted]

HigeR9 votes

You know, I can agree with this, balance on Sona is a hard thing to achieve, but trying to deny that she's better than she's ever been just irks me, specially when they direct their attack onto Meddler by twisting his words into a big puddle of non-sense.

Just to get this straight, the balance team has no reason to hate on ANY (yes, caps) champion, Rioters have constructed all the champions through hard work, hating on it would be simply hating the work of a lot of people from within!

Now there could be reasons why a champion is heavily nerfed, like when Eve had a stun and a thousand minutes stealth, but none of it is out of spite, this game is their life! more than it is to any of us! If a champion needs to be nerfed for the sake of balance then that champion will be nerfed, period.

There is nothing to compensate Sona for, because of the many venues they added for her to be viable and because, as you can see from the amount of downvotes this thread has, a big part of the community has been making her kit work successfully and most of those understand why she cannot be buffed without risking an upcoming, harder, nerf.

Quepha11 votes

{quoted}

I haven't been salty. You all have been.

I know her heal targets more than one. I fucking play her good Lord. I know about Windspeakers. But all of that combined, even Soraka's ult outclasses Sona's.

I know all her spells.

I have stated facts. You all just attack me for no reason.

Are you saying Soraka's ult outclasses Sona's W? Because that should be expected Are you saying Soraka's ult outclasses Sona's Ult? Because that's just straight-up wrong

SnugglePuggle947 votes

I meant Soraka's ult outclasses Sona's heal, not her ult.

Quepha11 votes

{quoted}

I meant Soraka's ult outclasses Sona's heal, not her ult.

So you're saying you won't be happy until Sona's normal abilities outclass the ults of other champions?

SnugglePuggle947 votes

I never said anything about her outclassing others. I want her to be more up to par against the other supports, not have the weakest things in the game.

Quepha8 votes

{quoted}

I never said anything about her outclassing others. I want her to be more up to par against the other supports, not have the weakest things in the game.

She IS up to par. Her TOTAL shield if she snuggles her whole team in a fight with W is far beyond what other champs can do on such a low cooldown, her TOTAL damage contribution if she snuggles her whole team with Q defies reason, her E for being a regular ability helps her team get to objectives faster and makes a difference, her burst in lane has an insane base value given how easy it is to land and makes her effective at zoning, she can build lichbane to make that burst stay relevant into the late game, and her ult is, was, and always will be one of the most powerful ults in the game due to its powerful stun, respectable area of effect, microscopic cast time, and near-instant travel time.

And her winrates reflect these strengths. In every mode at every rank within that mode.

Miku Hime sama6 votes

{quoted}

that's very rude, sona is a person.

Not according to Rito.

Veraska36 votes

This post is embarrassing. No wonder reds don't like talking to us.

Stars Shaper28 votes

Trying too hard without even being funny

-10/10

SnugglePuggle947 votes

I wasn't going for a funny post. Also, if I remember right, Stars Shaper, you are a constant nuisance to the boards, and always negatively comment. Keep your words to yourself.

TehNACHO19 votes

Except for a few things.

You're taking the word of a random poster over a Red. Sona is by no means weak statistically in win rate or any stat represented in the champion matrix given in the site Her pick rate isn't even that substantially terrible anymore; ever since the Marksman update she shot back up to a just below average pickrate

SnugglePuggle947 votes

This poster speaks truth. She is weak and most people don't pick her because there are better options available. The recent ADC update did not help much at all.

TehNACHO17 votes

On what basis.

Other than an anecdote.

SnugglePuggle947 votes

I've seen posts with numbers, but will take too long to find. She is weak. Stop ganging up on me.

TehNACHO14 votes

But it didn't take too long to type up the thread?

Don't use a post, as that's still not anything better than an anecdote most likely. Use statistics, like Lolking or Champion.gg.

SnugglePuggle947 votes

I am in class all day and this post I worked on in a little at a time. I don't have time to respond to negative people.

TehNACHO19 votes

And that's why this thread will never go anywhere.

You're defying common logic by taking the words of a random over a red. You're not substantiating your claims with evidence. When asked for said evidence, you backpedal. And now you're going to ignore the thread because people do not agree with you?

Dude I'm not even being negative, I'm giving you the tools you need to make this thread palatable. You need to substantiate your claims with facts; not anecdotes, facts. Just give us that and maybe you'll get more people on your side of the argument to defend your points.

SnugglePuggle947 votes

That random has proof. Screw off. I do not backpedal.

Yes you are. You are attacking me for no good reason.

BakaNerd14 votes

None of what that random posted is proof. Its all their interpretation of what they believe is happening, with no solid data, such as what several posters here have requested from you, to back up any of it.

SnugglePuggle947 votes

Yes, his words are proof. I just put up some numbers to show. Stop ganging up on someone that is trying to help the Sona playerbase.

BakaNerd12 votes

No, his words are NOT "proof." they are purely his opinion and interpretations of what he/she feels the state of Sona was at the time of posting. Updating your post with numbers, however, does help to back up your claim. However, it would be beneficial to you in the future to include statistics such as what you added in your initial post, not editing it later on.

Don't get me wrong, I love Sona (although I only play ARAM these days), but I find her super fun to play, and I enjoy watching her played by pros and streamers as well. I am all for making all the champs have equal footing for picks, bans, wins, and utility.

BakaNerd13 votes

Very few people are attacking you. Most said the same thing I did, that you were only providing anecdotal evidence and opinions. If you had included the numbers in the initial post, you would have likely avoided many of the posts that you seem to feel are "attacking" you by disputing that a random boards poster's thoughts are not proof.

Again, I enjoy Sona... but even I downvoted your initial post, as without the numbers, it was rather nonsensical and ranty, without any real statistics backing up your statement.

legionnaire9910 votes

{quoted}

This poster speaks truth. She is weak and most people don't pick her because there are better options available. The recent ADC update did not help much at all.

name what makes her weak?

SnugglePuggle947 votes

Moderately high cooldowns. Lowest damage numbers in the game. Lowest shield strength in the game. One of the weakest heals in the game. Staccato Passive on W and E are totally useless as people have to spam Q to be relevant in game. Ult has significant cooldown. Mana costs are all over the place. Has weak defense numbers and movement speed (her e doesn't help much at all).

Literally every other support is better compared to her, and most will take one if better lockdown/cc/defenses.

Jorencice9 votes

Not a single one of those are correct....

Or should I say they are taken out of context....

SnugglePuggle947 votes

They are correct.

Jorencice10 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Sona

Educate yourself.

She has the 2nd highest winrate.

Miku Hime sama9 votes

Linking a 3rd-party site... Spreading winrate propaganda...

You're the very definition of a sheep that can't think for itself.

Jorencice6 votes

Your just salty my main #1 Janna

Is better than

2nd place Sona

#2ndPlaceIsFirstLoser

Pika3107 votes

{quoted}

Your just salty my main #1 Janna

Is better than

2nd place Sona

#2ndPlaceIsFirstLoser

I realize it's necessary for the Spiderman reference you're making, but there's technically more than just two places and 1st has gone hands-down to Thresh since the day he was released. Since Sona is the weakest champ in the game, she'd be "last loser."

Primaquarius3 votes

Her heal is super weak considering the high mana cost to use it

LostFr0st10 votes

Nice post; I can tell you really care for Sona, but I suggest adding a tldr. Riot employees (ex:Meddler, whom I can tell you are trying to get a response from) have stated that they tend to post during 15 minute~ish intervals they have throughout the day.

-LostFr0st

Gigahappytown7 votes

she needs a rework in general

both her past and current kits weren't bard like at all.

Miku Hime sama7 votes

Her past kit was more bard-like than what she has now. I'll agree that a rework is definitely overdue.

Jupıter5 votes

You know, its interesting because the people that you have claimed are 'attacking you' have merely been posting counter arguments. I have see people being rude, but that is not the same as attacking. No one is 'abusing you,' they are just asking for proof that back up your claims. When you make a post talking about the state of a champion, people are going to ask you to give sources, they want the statistics, facts, etc. You can't just tell people that others have made posts with information on them regarding the champion you're talking about. That's like passing the responsibility of work in a job that you applied to, to someone that has been there for a while, purely on the grounds that 'they did it first.'

Now allow me to say that numbers don't always matter, yes. You also have to think about utility. Sona, as you should know, has great poking potential, and the ability to pull off a five man stun that lasts for 1.5 seconds. I'm sure you know that 1.5 seconds is a good amount of time for a stun with virtually no cast time. That's enough time for a Vayne to land at least four auto attacks. It would also allow any tank to begin throwing out their own CC.

Keep in mind that I am not attacking you. I'm stating facts. I'm stating what I've seen in this thread. I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU. I AM NOT ABUSING YOU.

SnugglePuggle947 votes

I did give them proof and they still say my claims are stupid or wrong. Most of them did attack me and kept doing it.

Also, this post was to challenge Meddler. I wanted him to read what Pika had said. Not for everyone to freaking attack me. I gave them proof after they wanted it but this was meant for the reds, not them. I shouldn't have had to prove anything but I did anyway.

Jupıter4 votes

Yeah, posting on the boards is not the best way to get a Red's attention. I wish I could help you there, but I'm not sure how. Perhaps an email?

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