How people get pleasure from Playing with/against Akali ? Where is the interaction with her?

ValiantKiller·Nov 29, 2019·39 votes·14,210 views

just sit in lane, out heal you and spam her q doing more damage than you in short time while hearing and killing you till the mercy call of quick death level 6. And then after she fall to ground, you rekt her to the sky and beyond. Where is the fun interaction of playing with her or against her even ? Like honestly she is one direction champion and old Akali in my eyes looked more fun and healthy than her current version.

101 Comments

Inari Fox OrrionNov 29, 201913 votes

I'll get roasted for saying so, but... ah well, the problem isn't with Akali, it's with the balance team themselves. Akali and many others could theoretically be balanced, even with their unique kit mechanics like true invisibility... but because Riot makes all the money in the world (for not doing their job)...

Your issue is with sustain. This problem affects: Akali, Aatrox, Caitlyn, Cho'Gath, Darius, Draven, Fiora, Illaoi, Irelia, Jax, Yi, Vladimir the list goes on and on... but... if you can name me a broken champion, chances are they'll be balanced out by balancing sustain. Unfortunately, many people ignore that and choose to blame the champion themselves like you've just done and, so, the issue never gets resolved.

You notice Fiora? Darius? Yasuo? Akali? Aatrox? Lots of healing, right? It's almost like the healing is stacked onto their kit, sometimes in ways that don't even make sense (Irelia) and the champions who don't have self-healing are in turn overloaded as fuck because they, otherwise, can't keep up. We have CertainlyT to thank for this, but fortunately he's not going to be designing LoL anymore after releasing yet another ~~overloaded champion~~ balance nightmare.

Edit: in some cases, the healing IS literally stacked onto their kit ( item 3146 item 3812 item 3072 or Fleet Footwork/Conqueror) and a 40% healing reduction just isn't enough to deal with something like that.

Z3SIeeperNov 29, 20192 votes

The sustain meta that lurks behind the burst meta should stay until the burst meta is resolved.

Is sustain an issue right now? Yeah. Is burst an even bigger issue right now? Yeah. Does sustain help burst be less of an issue? Yep.

And that’s why.

Inari Fox OrrionNov 30, 20191 votes

This may sound really stupid because it makes plain how dumb Riot is about some things, but all this burst is because of the sustain -- if you don't kill someone immediately, you aren't killing them. Why? Because sustain means you heal from 10% to 50% in a single auto. The burst meta is because of sustain.

Z3SIeeperNov 30, 20191 votes

I sadly don't have an exact timeline. But the burst meta began far earlier. Sustain buffs came creeping all throughout the latter half of S9 in response.

Instead of buffing defense, they slowly buffed more and more sustain effects in the game.

Inari Fox OrrionNov 30, 20191 votes

Well, yeah, but my point is that the sustain meta's just making it worse and encouraging them to make it worse. I do agree the burst meta is a problem, but I think it's as severe as the sustain meta and that they both persist to reinforce each-other.

ValiantKillerNov 29, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inari Fox Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-29T04:32:49.871+0000)

I'll get roasted for saying so, but... ah well, the problem isn't with Akali, it's with the balance team themselves. Akali and many others could theoretically be balanced, even with their unique kit mechanics like true invisibility... but because Riot makes all the money in the world (for not doing their job)...

Your issue is with sustain. This problem affects: Akali, Aatrox, Caitlyn, Cho'Gath, Darius, Draven, Fiora, Illaoi, Irelia, Jax, Yi, Vladimir the list goes on and on... but... if you can name me a broken champion, chances are they'll be balanced out by balancing sustain. Unfortunately, many people ignore that and choose to blame the champion themselves like you've just done and, so, the issue never gets resolved.

You notice Fiora? Darius? Yasuo? Akali? Aatrox? Lots of healing, right? It's almost like the healing is stacked onto their kit, sometimes in ways that don't even make sense (Irelia) and the champions who don't have self-healing are in turn overloaded as fuck because they, otherwise, can't keep up. We have CertainlyT to thank for this, but fortunately he's not going to be designing LoL anymore after releasing yet another ~~overloaded champion~~ balance nightmare.

Edit: in some cases, the healing IS literally stacked onto their kit ( or Fleet Footwork/Conqueror) and a 40% healing reduction just isn't enough to deal with something like that.

No you are right, it about the healing and always about the healing. But unlike the rest of champions she having the short CDR access and she can poke you from a good distance.

RyzeReworkNov 29, 20193 votes

She can get 2 q autos in before running out of energy but honestly akali is pretty free without her shroud. Shes almost useless without it. My problem isnt her damage but her 3 gap closers /escapes

ValiantKillerNov 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

She can get 2 q autos in before running out of energy but honestly akali is pretty free without her shroud. Shes almost useless without it. My problem isnt her damage but her 3 gap closers /escapes

That is the point, maybe without shroud she is free but she can escape at same time. That is the whole point, assassin able to poke you from distance then get double their auto range ,refund their cost hide and if you catch her she run. She only start a full combo once she know you going down and that mostly after she poked you like 5 times atleast to 50% hp.

Minimac2000Nov 29, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inari Fox Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-29T04:32:49.871+0000)

I'll get roasted for saying so, but... ah well, the problem isn't with Akali, it's with the balance team themselves. Akali and many others could theoretically be balanced, even with their unique kit mechanics like true invisibility... but because Riot makes all the money in the world (for not doing their job)...

Your issue is with sustain. This problem affects: Akali, Aatrox, Caitlyn, Cho'Gath, Darius, Draven, Fiora, Illaoi, Irelia, Jax, Yi, Vladimir the list goes on and on... but... if you can name me a broken champion, chances are they'll be balanced out by balancing sustain. Unfortunately, many people ignore that and choose to blame the champion themselves like you've just done and, so, the issue never gets resolved.

You notice Fiora? Darius? Yasuo? Akali? Aatrox? Lots of healing, right? It's almost like the healing is stacked onto their kit, sometimes in ways that don't even make sense (Irelia) and the champions who don't have self-healing are in turn overloaded as fuck because they, otherwise, can't keep up. We have CertainlyT to thank for this, but fortunately he's not going to be designing LoL anymore after releasing yet another ~~overloaded champion~~ balance nightmare.

Edit: in some cases, the healing IS literally stacked onto their kit ( or Fleet Footwork/Conqueror) and a 40% healing reduction just isn't enough to deal with something like that.

The problem (as an illaoi player) is that that sustain has to be there and has to be at least as good as it is because ranged melee matchups are already completely fked top lane where picking a melee before your opponent locks in means they auto lock in kayle, kennen, vlad, or ryze and harass you to death and don't let you play the game while also scaling 2-3x better. More healing reduction will make this problem much worse. Kled has already been top tier for multiple patches because literally no sustain based fighter can all in him on even terms because of his random 60% heal reduce

Inari Fox OrrionNov 30, 20192 votes

That or they could stop giving ranged champions dashes and movement speed bonuses ( item 3086 items) on top of their inherent benefit of being ranged. One of the more reasonable ways to balance a mobile ranged champion is as HotS has done with Tracer where they give her weak attacks. If you want someone ranged with mobility and damage, you get stuff like Viktor Top whom was impossible to punish because they, quite literally, outclass anything else... including champions within their own class pool.

This leads to stuff like the Juggernaut and Marksman rework, where an entire class has supposedly become invalid but it's only because the top-tier in any individual class outclasses anything but the top-tier in another individual class. That isn't how you create a balanced game, instead it's more or less a Gacha game style of balancing. Champions like Corki are one star, while champions like Senna are five star. The class reworks are to, supposedly, "fix" that issue.

Hell, maybe that's why people like the loot boxes so much: "do I get a superpowered champion or a useless one?" Of course it matters little when you have them all, but that takes years of play or months of pay to achieve, especially at the rate they release new champions.

RagnaveilNov 29, 20191 votes

Here's the thing, Aatrox's healing is the most balanced due to having a large ass weakness to not only resists but Grievous too, the rest dont, especially Fiora. I have to ban her because theres no physical way to stop her from running your ass down as a True Damage Tryndamere.

GankLordNov 29, 20191 votes

I agree with you but her get out options are also a huge problem she doesn't have to commit to anything and she's virtually impossible to punish for positioning badly.

Inari Fox OrrionNov 30, 20192 votes

She's heavily punished for using her skills badly instead. I would suggest you play her when, without sustain, she'd be either balanced or free food unless fed (like she should be.)

If you want an example of what I mean, play her without item 3812 item 3146 or Ravenous Hunter/Fleet Footwork. You'll probably notice that she plays like you'd expect an assassin to -- you have to pick encounters wisely and carefully, and if you get jumped on without your W or R, you're likely dead because you can't just Q>Q someone and recover half of your health. Same for Zed, Shen, Kennen, Talon, LeBlanc, etc. in that you need to waste both a skill and an ult to escape which, since you're an assassin, probably isn't worthwhile.

Sustain is her problem.

Veloz DestelloNov 29, 20199 votes

You get outhealed by a champ with no heals in her kit? [sg-lux-2]

She's one of the most fun champs to play as, a bit annoying to play against her BCS her shroud and mobility, but anyways is punishable. Prefer to play against her than against Darius, Garen, Velkoz, zed or other 0 skill required op champs

CRIMSONFKRNov 29, 201925 votes

Fleet footwork makes her lane phase a breeze and once she get gunblade there is no way to keep from out sustaining your harass or all in's.

Veloz DestelloNov 29, 20196 votes

Fleet footwork is overrated and taking it makes her fall in late. Also, you can build these things too.

Ensign TorpedoNov 29, 20197 votes

Not if you're something like Jax (Inb4 URF AP Jax), Ornn, Swain, Ryze, Darius, Pantheon, Aatrox, Camille, Urgot, Tryndamere (inb4 AP trynd), Cho'Gath, Yorick. Just naming a few.

If Akali picks Conqueror she can literally stack it in 2 seconds still having 2 out of 3 abilities off cooldowns. How can you outsustain it? And how is Akali "falling off" late?

Veloz DestelloNov 29, 20192 votes

Are you telling me you cant build sustain as jax?

Ensign TorpedoNov 29, 20192 votes

I am telling you that building sustain as Jax is a waste, considering that you play with Conqueror. This is the only sustain you'll need and to get more of it, you need damage. Building lifesteal won't do much good - you deal a lot of damage with your abilities (W and R doesn't heal off lifesteal) - and Gunblade is a huge waste of potential ESPECIALLY considering SoS's removal.

Of course, building Vampiric Scepter early is viable against tanks and slightly poking champs - but not against Akali. It's quite simple, I don't get which thing you can't understand

Veloz DestelloNov 29, 20192 votes

Wouldn't it be nice an item that heal you with all the damage you do? Something that gives you AD, lifesteal and CDR. And maybe some passive to don't get blown....

I would tell you to build defenses, since there are one item that increase your heal and give you MR. But knowing how boards thing about defense, better keep crying BCS you struggle to play against one of the worst champ of the game

Z3SIeeperNov 29, 20198 votes

“The worst”

Yikes. Yeah I’m sure she’s played often in high elo cuz she’s the worst champ in the game.

Minimac2000Nov 29, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ensign Tor%%%%,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-29T05:12:00.209+0000)

Not if you're something like Jax (Inb4 URF AP Jax), Ornn, Swain, Ryze, Darius, Pantheon, Aatrox, Camille, Urgot, Tryndamere (inb4 AP trynd), Cho'Gath, Yorick. Just naming a few.

If Akali picks Conqueror she can literally stack it in 2 seconds still having 2 out of 3 abilities off cooldowns. How can you outsustain it? And how is Akali "falling off" late?

Just saying ap trynd is no longer a thing. They more than halved his ap scalings a few months ago

Ensign TorpedoNov 29, 20191 votes

Well, I saw it once or twice in my life - didn't even realise it was nerfed because of how niche it was - that's why I didn't really even consider it in my comment and just wanted to make sure that Akali/Ahri main would not pull out "Haha, but Trynda can build gunblade!" which would be too annoying of an argument to deal with. Thanks for the information btw, I saw one recently (On URF) and was wondering why was he doing 1/3 of damage I expected from him.

BârdNov 30, 20191 votes

What? You don't need a keystone to do that. Hell, if you're only using that keystone you'll find yourself short by quite a bit, since Fleet does jack shit for healing until you have money and levels.

If you just want to sustain through lane, just run Taste of Blood.

If you run Fleet you're running it for the extra strength in the mid-late game. If you're considering it as a tool for the lane phase, it does less than any other Keystone Akali would consider.

G0blinSlay3rNov 29, 20199 votes

Her rework was pure horse shit. every single rework did one thing.. tear away everything we loved.

MortismoNov 29, 20192 votes

shes much better and stronger now than before

Crescent DuskNov 29, 20197 votes

It's the slow in her Q that makes her so abusive. She can virtually poke you down with little chance for retaliation since her spammable poke is a conal slow that helps her get away from ganks on top of her shroud, E dashback, and gunblade slow on top of 2 dashes from her ult.

She has way too many outs of mispositioning or getting caught out. A way worse version of Zed since at least Zed has a 22 sec cd on his escape outside his ult, and his slow is not spammable nor does it have the range of Akali's slow.

It's too easy for her to dictate the terms of engagement, and once she gets gunblade she gains way too much healing.

ValiantKillerNov 29, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-11-29T07:31:07.371+0000)

It's the slow in her Q that makes her so abusive. She can virtually poke you down with little chance for retaliation since her spammable poke is a conal slow that helps her get away from ganks on top of her shroud, E dashback, and gunblade slow on top of 2 dashes from her ult.

She has way too many outs of mispositioning or getting caught out. A way worse version of Zed since at least Zed has a 22 sec cd on his escape outside his ult, and his slow is not spammable nor does it have the range of Akali's slow.

It's too easy for her to dictate the terms of engagement, and once she gets gunblade she gains way too much healing.

It just fun to see yourself pushed under tower while she pokes you and heal , poke you and heal , backing to base and back with more healing item. Worst part even your best defensive skill would have twice her q CDR.

RagnaveilNov 29, 20192 votes

That and her auto range is doubled when she has passive. Like, adding 50 or 75 range to her next auto is fine, doubling it isn't.

Unusual midlanerNov 29, 20193 votes

That and zed also makes it very clear who he’s focusing and doesn’t have a bullshit instant energy recovery mechanic

Inari Fox OrrionNov 30, 20193 votes

He recovers 30-50 energy when he hits you with things, and he can do it more than once. Akali only recovers 10-20 for crossing her border and 80 for using her long-cooldown shroud. A decent Zed, in general, will recover a lot more energy over the course of a fight than a good Akali will. Not only that, but her shroud has a 20s CD that starts after it ends. Zed's clone CD starts the moment he uses it.

I feel as if you're just somewhat salty over the wrong thing.

Inari Fox OrrionNov 30, 20192 votes

A 50% slow isn't anything compared to Zed and, unlike Zed, she can only land that slow if she hits a skill within a 100-unit radius.

Assassins are meant to dictate terms of engagement, hence their mobility and efficiency at going in and hopefully getting out. Their entire purpose is to wait for a target to present themselves as a target, and then kill them. Typically this target is the enemy ADC, and (supposedly) if you succeed and killing the enemy ADC then you would win the deadlock.

In practice, a fed Akali isn't doing anything against a fed Fiora, and a fed Fiora is a whole lot more useful than a fed MF. Once again, people are focusing on the wrong thing: they're focusing on the symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.

Crescent DuskNov 30, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inari Fox Orrion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TvyQWAIE,comment-id=00040003,timestamp=2019-11-30T07:38:56.708+0000)

A 50% slow isn't anything compared to Zed and, unlike Zed, she can only land that slow if she hits a skill within a 100-unit radius.

Assassins are meant to dictate terms of engagement, hence their mobility and efficiency at going in and hopefully getting out. Their entire purpose is to wait for a target to present themselves as a target, and then kill them. Typically this target is the enemy ADC, and (supposedly) if you succeed and killing the enemy ADC then you would win the deadlock.

In practice, a fed Akali isn't doing anything against a fed Fiora, and a fed Fiora is a whole lot more useful than a fed MF. Once again, people are focusing on the wrong thing: they're focusing on the symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.

Akali is one of the most oppressive champions to take into top lane. That 100 unit restriction you talk about means nothing when your champion is melee and doesn't have mobility built in.

Moreover, a fed Akali is miles more useful than a Fiora for the simple fact she will live through teamfights whereas Fiora will not if even a single person in your team built Grievous Wounds. Fiora has parry and that's as far as it goes for incoming focus fire. Akali has shroud, 2 ult dashes, and her E on top of her core item, gunblade giving her another way to control opponents and avoid focus fire in a teamfight. There's a reason only Akali and Qiyana have seen pro play in these recent seasons; one has incomparable safety and the other the ultimate teamfight pickmaker and objective contest ult. The rest of the midlane roster in the competitive scene has been nothing but artillery mages and Tristana/Lucian, that should tell you something about assassins compared to Akali and Qiyana.

A fed MF is more useful than either of those for the simple fact ADC's rule teamfighting and siege when supported properly. It just so happens that other ADC's do what MF does better and have all these self peels no ADC should have (being ranged and the best scaling champion with absurd right click damage should mean that when someone gets on you, you die; not like the currently obscene Kai'sa/Xayah/Caitlyn who can now even 1v1 many champions despite the ADC role being designed as a 2-man package).

Inari Fox OrrionNov 30, 20192 votes

and that is an issue with the non-broken Top roster, not Akali herself. It'd probably be a lot better if she wouldn't heal so easily, eh?

You forget about the fact that Akali has to wait 2.5s to use her second dash in a meta where you die in 15% of that time. Similarly, unlike Fiora's dash, Akali has a hefty 160s cooldown on her R at rank 1, down to 100s at rank 3. Fiora will block all incoming damage and CC with her W, while Akali's W neither makes teammates invisible nor protects her from damage or CC.

Argue semantics all you like, but fact is Akali is a champion made to be good when the person playing them is and she is otherwise completely useless. However, sustain has vastly reduced the need for people to actually be good with her to do something because it allows them to ignore positioning, target priority, aiming, etc. and just mash buttons to win.

A fed MF is not more useful than a fed Fiora in this meta. A fed Fiora will 3v1 and win, while a fed MF can be instantly killed easily, while a fed Fiora gets plenty of stats from her itemization to win a 1v1 or a 2v1 or even sometimes a 3v1. Again, it's an issue with the balance team and not an individual champion.

NelsieLisnenNov 29, 20194 votes

Uuuh Akali no longer has sustain in her kit, it was taken from her Q long ago. She's "one direction champion"? I'll pretend I understand this phrasing so as to say that old Akali had 4 point clicks built into her kit, 3 of which were dashes. Old Akali was trash because she was not a champ before level 6 and couldn't get lane prio for sht. Pretty much

ValiantKillerNov 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Uuuh Akali no longer has sustain in her kit, it was taken from her Q long ago. She's "one direction champion"? I'll pretend I understand this phrasing so as to say that old Akali had 4 point clicks built into her kit, 3 of which were dashes. Old Akali was trash because she was not a champ before level 6 and couldn't get lane prio for sht. Pretty much

When i talked about healing, i talk about the fleet rune and gunblade. And when i talk about fun wise playing with her or against her, tell me what is so fun about not having an intractable lane or even worst for the akali player that once the enemy champion hit their powerspike she become useless ? Like honestly where is the fun that suppose her new rework to bring that is different from the old akali ?

hiyaresNov 29, 20194 votes

honestly akali is pretty easy to lane against in most situations unless you are going with another melee but even in that situation she is easy to read how she wants to play just by paying attention to her shroud. in terms of the while omg she can one shot me it tends to be only on the adc because the actual way she is reliant on trading is something like

q auto q auto w q auto run

e q auto w q auto run

it is pretty easy to bait her out on her q she will try to use it while csing so if you just sit next to your wave instead of behind it she has to make a choice on where she uses her q and you also need to understand the general range of it so you could walk in and back off just as she tries to land it. when she hits lvl 6 is where she actually has kill potential over you but realistically if she isnt running electrocute its gonna take her a while to get you into a comfortable range in order to do so if you are smart about keeping a good distance on her ability to use q.

NUMBER 1 TIP!!!!! if she drops shroud dont fucking stand on it like she isnt gonna beat the shit out of you. you cant trade with someone you cant reliably hit so just walk away it goes on cd you have about 20 seconds of free time to set up a wave or harass her with out her ability to kill you even with ult.

tip number 2 - if you are gonna play a passive lane focus on something that can push from a distance and hard punishes roaming akali doesnt have the ability to quickly push without using a lot of energy with her cds. If she is not in the lane ping it o matter what and proceed to hard push and punish for the roam.