Gnar needs this, before it's too late

The Ecdysiast··1 votes·1,440 views

They keep slapping buffs onto his ultimate, but that isn't where Gnar's problem lies. The issue is that his kit is trying to reconcile two completely different champions that you don't have control over switching between.

He isn't like Jayce or Nidalee. They can switch at will and directly turn landing their poke into going all-in with their melee burst. But he doesn't do that, because when he becomes melee, he becomes a tank instead of a burst champion. Which means he becomes one of two things:

  1. An AA-based marksman who can't build like one because transforming more often with that kind of build is a detriment, thanks to the fact he needs to be able to survive during his ultimate. OR
  2. An engage tank who can't choose to engage at will and will have even less income than usual if he tries to build full tank instead of off-tank fighter-- which doesn't work for ranged champions.

I suggested this before, but it's more important now than ever that he get this specific change:

Gnar should convert his offensive stats into defensive stats upon transforming. That's the basic suggestion, but specifically I think he should keep his AD, convert his AS into added bonus health and give him armor/mr based on his Crit Chance and AP.

That way, he'd be able to build like a markman, as it seems mini should've always been able to do considering one of his abilities is a 3rd-hit passive instead of an active cast. But be able to do his job in Mega without getting demolished. He'd be able to build either crit or hybrid on-hit, since the latter would benefit his W, to get either the armor or MR he needs for the opponents.

He'd be able to do what his design intended, without being too tanky in mini or too damagey in mega, and most importantly without doing the in-between he's always had to do thanks to the un-synergized design.

He needs this before they just break him by continuing to add ridiculous buffs to the point he'll need to be thrown back into the dumpster, even deeper than before.

Edit: Important note. I'm not saying the conversion would be high. In fact it should be half or even less than half the gold value of the offensive stats. Certainly not the stats of a full tank.

11 Comments

Thingamajig1 votes

thats IS LITERALLY HIS DESIGN to be a marksman that turns into a tank

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

thats IS LITERALLY HIS DESIGN to be a marksman that turns into a tank

Um... yes? That's why I'm suggesting he actually do so, instead of not being able to build properly for either of them because he has to worry about building in between both.

As it is, he can't build marksman because he'd blow up in mega. But he can't build tank because he'd be garbage in mini. With this suggestion, he'd be able to do both without being too tanky in mini or too damagey in mega.

Thingamajig1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TtuEeFXq,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-19T22:55:39.325+0000)

Um... yes? That's why I'm suggesting he actually do so, instead of not being able to build properly for either of them because he has to worry about building in between both.

As it is, he can't build marksman because he'd blow up in mega. But he can't build tank because he'd be garbage in mini. With this suggestion, he'd be able to do both without being too tanky in mini or too damagey in mega.

alright lets suppose Riot goes with the stat conversion just like in Pykes case Gnar builds Full glass cannon like a marksman should he smashes your front line with all the %dmg he has and then when you finally get on him now he is immortal as all the damage stats got converted to defense oh and you wanted him to keep his AD man i would definitely love to be facing a 400-500 ad tank with 300-400 armor and mr that can stun lock me that would be AAMAZING!

His Design is already functioning properly he CAN decide when to transform and his ENEMIES counter play is to know When he wants to transform Pro players very rarely had issues with his transformation so just learn to play with it The "ITEMIZATION PROBLEM" you calling it is not a problem. It's your challenge to build him properly just like Kaisa's challenge is to get her breakpoints just like so many champions that function specifically off of items

building a champion properly is a part of a skill set a player needs to have don't expect riot to give you everything just because

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

alright lets suppose Riot goes with the stat conversion just like in Pykes case Gnar builds Full glass cannon like a marksman should he smashes your front line with all the %dmg he has and then when you finally get on him now he is immortal as all the damage stats got converted to defense oh and you wanted him to keep his AD man i would definitely love to be facing a 400-500 ad tank with 300-400 armor and mr that can stun lock me that would be AAMAZING!

His Design is already functioning properly he CAN decide when to transform and his ENEMIES counter play is to know When he wants to transform Pro players very rarely had issues with his transformation so just learn to play with it The "ITEMIZATION PROBLEM" you calling it is not a problem. It's your challenge to build him properly just like Kaisa's challenge is to get her breakpoints just like so many champions that function specifically off of items

building a champion properly is a part of a skill set a player needs to have don't expect riot to give you everything just because

Except that wouldn't happen. Marksmen don't demolish people like that. And he'd be vulnerable to assassination the entire time, with a very clear indicator of when he's going to transform.

I suggested he keep his AD specifically because he would have around 325 even at level 18 with a full build, not the 400-500 you're pullin' out your butt, completely ignoring the fact games don't even last long enough for Jhin to get that high most of the time.

And I never said it would be a 100% conversion. It'd be ridiculous to even assume that. I specifically left the numbers out of it because they could be negotiated. Like, say he has a full marksman build of item 3153 item 3031 item 3087 item 3026 item 3080 item 3006, so that's 105% AS. So the ratio to health could be something like [3 HP per 1% bonus AS], which would only be 315 HP. That's less than half the gold value in health compared to AS. And could be adjusted further. And the crit to armor ration could be similarly low.

I'm not saying to give him the stats of a full tank. But defensive stats slightly better than what he builds now, while allowing him to not be trash in mini.

Daddy Ants1 votes

NO

MORE

GNAR

BUFFS

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

NO

MORE

GNAR

BUFFS

W H Y

you do know he's been the second-lowest performing top laner for almost three years now, right?

What I'm saying is that if they don't implement a change like this, they're just going to keep buffing him to try and make up for the fact his kit isn't cohesive. And if he does get enough buffs to just overcome that problem with raw stats, he'll be overpowered and end up gutted again anyway.

This wouldn't necessarily be a buff. What it would do is make his kit cohesive. Then they won't have to keep buffing him.

TengenToppaGnar1 votes

As a Gnar Main, don't fix whats broke. This change may have unintended consequences.

  1. League of Gnar until the next patch.
  2. NERFS OUT THE ASS UNTIL HE'S UNPLAYABLE
  3. Me cursing you out, cause you made this stupid suggestion.

Edit: Also the recent ultimate buff has made Gnar Play super healthy since roughly having an ultimate ready when you go mega each time is sweet

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

As a Gnar Main, don't fix whats broke. This change may have unintended consequences.

  1. League of Gnar until the next patch.
  2. NERFS OUT THE ASS UNTIL HE'S UNPLAYABLE
  3. Me cursing you out, cause you made this stupid suggestion.

Edit: Also the recent ultimate buff has made Gnar Play super healthy since roughly having an ultimate ready when you go mega each time is sweet

If the direction they're going results in him being playable even despite the problem with his entire kit's cohesion, then he will start getting nerfs until he's back to being unplayable. That's exactly the problem I'm trying to preemptively avoid.

TengenToppaGnar1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TtuEeFXq,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-19T23:20:09.816+0000)

If the direction they're going results in him being playable even despite the problem with his entire kit's cohesion, then he will start getting nerfs until he's back to being unplayable. That's exactly the problem I'm trying to preemptively avoid.

I doubt that'll happen. They'll probably find a middle ground between pre-buff and post-buff. Out of 50 Top Laners, Gnar's playrate is a mere 2%. Surprising, I know, before the buff it was 1%. Now, while his wins might be increasing, I think its because a lot of people aren't used to the current state of Gnar when he's mega. I myself think his last 2 buffs were pretty fucking drastic. Either way, Gnar isn't easily balanced, and your suggestion, sure as hell will make that worse. He's balanced around the fact his Transformations are Pseudo-Random.

Thingamajig1 votes

Jhin in 30min usually has 600+ ad if he is ahead it can be 800+ dunno about your elo but this is my experience in diamond

none of those conversions make sense just like pykes health conversion doesn't make sense it's just there to keep his health regen balanced

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Jhin in 30min usually has 600+ ad if he is ahead it can be 800+ dunno about your elo but this is my experience in diamond

none of those conversions make sense just like pykes health conversion doesn't make sense it's just there to keep his health regen balanced

So you did pull it out of your butt, having to use Jhin as your example because what you said isn't true of marksmen.

Do explain why the conversion doesn't make sense, and I'll be happy to explain it to you. But considering you think Pyke's doesn't make sense despite listing exactly why it does make sense in literally your own next sentence, I don't know if I can help you.

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