I agree with everything riot has done to Veigar except for one thing.

Curling Veigar·Jun 1, 2015·35 votes·1,852 views

His ult shouldn't have been touched at all.

Why was it changed? Didn't they state they didn't want to touch his damage?

Everything else about the mini-rework was perfect, though

35 Comments

OverpoweredSoapJun 1, 201530 votes

So they were suppose to change and help Veigar after the loss of DFG.

And they nerf his ult ratio.

ok then.

Curling VeigarJun 1, 201517 votes

{quoted}

So they were suppose to change and help Veigar after the loss of DFG.

And they nerf his ult ratio.

ok then.

Best logic!!

DrCabesJun 1, 20159 votes

I still don't understand the ult nerf myself. Maybe if they just nerfed the ratio for the enemy's ap I could understand. Don't like cheesy abilities that punish the other team for being strong, that I could at least understand. Nerfing his own ap ratio doesn't really make sense though.

UPfreelyJun 2, 20154 votes

I agree, though i always wished they would buff the scaling and reduce its dmg by enemy ap. (it's far more thematic to burst primal noobs who don't learn the magical ways of building ap)

Deep Terror NamiJun 1, 20154 votes

I already forgot what they changed with his Ult but wasn't it a change due to the loss of DFG?

Curling VeigarJun 1, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TnfmK7N8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-01T19:30:47.201+0000)

I already forgot what they changed with his Ult but wasn't it a change due to the loss of DFG?

Ap ratio was lowered.

DownfallJun 2, 20151 votes

CD was also lowered.

JimmyNtheKudosJun 2, 20154 votes

I think they should buff his comet. The cast time made sense when you had to time it with stun. Since the stun isn't instant now, it just feels very clunky coordinating those two skills and actually landing one your major damage sources.

ArkenStormJun 2, 20151 votes

I've said this so many times..... :P

The SoulforgedJun 2, 20154 votes

Everything besides the ult nerf was perfect on the Veigar rework? Oh god you're killing me.

DirkTarTarJun 2, 20153 votes

I feel like his Ult change was rather unnecessary with the changes to everything else.

Revert the changes to his trap and he will be in a much much much better spot.

IceKingChernobogJun 2, 20153 votes

i wish they made his W faster

Silents429Jun 2, 20152 votes

Ult still blows people up, just not as soon in the game.

CudyDarkyzJun 2, 20152 votes

Veigar change was the best!

Almost as good as Nidalee nerf!

TwitchInMyPantsJun 2, 20152 votes

Veigar rework is dumb, his e is easier to outplay while still being able to be setup but requiring an escapeless enemy going ham or allies slowing so you can land your stun is a bit ridiculous just to add some range/bonus farm to his q. And then they just pretty much nerfed the only thing he had left which was his damage. Veigar certainly isn't useless right now but why pick him over any champion that has better burst and more reliable cc?

GodhriJun 2, 20151 votes

wait.. you mean.. his stun actually requires some tactical/strategic work now? What!? RIDONKULOUS!

Curling VeigarJun 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

wait.. you mean.. his stun actually requires some tactical/strategic work now? What!? RIDONKULOUS!

Yeah and I agree with that.

I've never complained about his stun having a delay.

It's the freaking lowered AP ratio on his ult.

TwitchInMyPantsJun 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

wait.. you mean.. his stun actually requires some tactical/strategic work now? What!? RIDONKULOUS!

Yea, that totally makes sense. Tho his W is entirely balanced around his E being instant so that you can land it reliably despite the delay. Its much longer than the stun itself and has a moderate AP ratio for a spell of its nature. His Q is in a decent state, his R got nerfed, and his W is more situational than ever on top of his E becoming unreliable. I don't see any other mage with a skillset like that who doesn't have some significant ratio or something to compensate for the risk.

Curling VeigarJun 2, 20152 votes

Their reasoning for nerfing it was "whoa, it did a lot of damage" (aka an identity they wanted to keep?)

And as for the cooldown/mana cost lowering..

I didn't notice anything about the CD change and the mana cost (while helpful) doesn't justify it being a single target meh damage spell if used on a champ that isn't glass cannon AP

I'd rather have a 225 cost ult with better damage than vice versa.

PerishSoftlyJun 2, 20151 votes

Do recall though that his ability to farm AP was theoretically doubled. You can double-tap minions, monsters, champions, etc. with Q to get 2 AP per cast (thus more mana efficiency) or get an AP and some poke on the enemy midlaner (again, more mana efficiency) and it can damage two targets in a teamfight.

dr lichdeathJun 2, 20151 votes

which also means u push 2 times so hard which means less safety if u want to continue farming unless ur enemy is pushing like a retard and when the wave is pushed and ur opnent is smart and freezes the lane u can easily get ganked while trying to farm or... lose huge amounts of xp and gold basicly getting enemy mid fed on farm basicly ur laning phase sucks now before it was bad now its worse aznd u cant apply pressure or the enemy ganks will porbably kill you

DEN TEL0SJun 2, 20152 votes

I just wish he had some way to defend himself.

MrBuffingtonJun 2, 20151 votes

IIRC they stated that he was gaining tons of AP from Q during playtests that even with the lowered ratio on his ult, he was doing similar amounts of damage to pre-nerf because of the extra AP. I don't play enough Veigar to know if this is actually the case though; what's your experience with it?

Spicy RiceJun 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

IIRC they stated that he was gaining tons of AP from Q during playtests that even with the lowered ratio on his ult, he was doing similar amounts of damage to pre-nerf because of the extra AP. I don't play enough Veigar to know if this is actually the case though; what's your experience with it?

My experience is that im doing less damage with my ult, because i already was farming 90-95% of the minions with my q. All that happens now is that if im trying to kill an ad champ, I fail because my ult doesnt do enough damage and i dont have DFG to help do more damage

DrCabesJun 2, 20154 votes

People always say he gets more ap from the new Q but they forget there's a fixed number of minions per wave and that hasn't changed. Being able to farm two at a time doesn't matter when the end number is still the same. The new Q made it safer to farm, not necessarily easier, also at the cost of being able to harass. If anything, he may get less ap now from having no solo kill pressure until the late game.

FistOfSharkieshaJun 2, 20152 votes

Plus it's easier to fuck with him now, especially as a melee champion. You can prevent him lowering the health of two minions by harassing him, and you can escape before he hits you with his delayed stun. He has 0 assured damage besides his auto attack without his ult.

ArkenStormJun 2, 20151 votes

People also forget that you can now harass and poke with one ability, which makes it worth twice as much. However, it hitting twice as much at a longer range made you able to more easily get every creep in the wave.

DrCabesJun 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

People also forget that you can now harass and poke with one ability, which makes it worth twice as much. However, it hitting twice as much at a longer range made you able to more easily get every creep in the wave.

The new Q only gave Veigar more safety to help make up for the safety lost from his E. At the cost of this however, he lost viable poke/harass, which arguably takes some of that safety back. The new Q is too easy to dodge by simply standing behind the creep line, or if Veigar is behind you can just stand in front of the line to deny a large chunk of his farm.

Old Veigar was still safer then the current one because you could put the fear of god into them by stunning them when they try all-in you and punish them for it (but you would most likely die if you missed), or you could trade more evenly with the Q that would still hit them regardless of how many minions are in front of them. Now Veigar's safety is simply staying as far away as possible which isn't very easy is in League of Mobility.

dr lichdeathJun 2, 20151 votes

well he actually still could use a buff tbecause of the e nerf they buffed his q but theyre forgetting that killing 2 minions = pushing and if the enemy is smart he can force veigar to lose huge amounts of farm or make him take huge risks thats why i dont really like the new veigar

dr lichdeathJun 2, 20151 votes

are u sure they tested him against good players and not botsor noobs?

MrBuffingtonJun 3, 20151 votes

I'm not a Red, just relaying stuff they've stated in posts or videos (I think they said this in the patch rundown)

Curling VeigarJun 2, 20151 votes

He only farms using less mana Honestly if they lowered his q's mana cost that might make him even better

dr lichdeathJun 2, 20151 votes

and pushes more = less safety again...

xLyoJun 3, 20151 votes

well, point-click abilities shouldnt have much damage in my opinion. no effort- no reward. anyway he is balanced now.

LordofthepitttJun 3, 20151 votes

I'll tell you what should have happened with his mini-rework. They should have nerfed his damage into the ground. I've never been killed quicker than a Veigar with 3 kills. As a squishy ADC, its not really fun to be killed by something in 0.39 seconds. Doesn't offer alot of counterplay. I mean... You could say 'just don't get hit by his boxing ring jajajaja'. But eventually you will get hit by it more than likely. And plus, Kha'zix was nerfed repeatedly, when all ya had to do to not be instakilled by him was not be isolated. So why is Veigar not gutted yet? Is it because he is immobile?