"I think the way CertainlyT is communicating is wrong"

vfactor95·Aug 10, 2015·83 votes·2,360 views

"Therefore I'm going to also communicate in a way that is also wrong, that will definitely solve the problem right?"

35 Comments

Malicious MetalAug 10, 201529 votes

I personally hate how people simply start hating anything related to CertainlyT. Some of us Morde enthusiasts gave deeply thought out feedback and suggestions on the rework and what to tweak/change/add but it all gets buried under all the shit thrown into his direction.

So in a sense these haters made CertainlyT's already lacking communication even worse and I honestly didn't think it would have been possible :<

vfactor95Aug 10, 201519 votes

Yeah I feel bad for the handful of Morde mains who bothered to take the time and effort to construct proper feedback and got drowned out by all the toxicity.

ArkenStormAug 10, 20154 votes

Me too. I believe Matezoide, Malicous Metal, and myself posted the most thought-out posts, going along with the rework ideas.

Silents429Aug 11, 20151 votes

God forbid any Mordekaiser shows any support for the new changes either, get downvoted to hell.

KnalxzAug 11, 20153 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/nEUnVy2j-im-a-simple-man-ive-played-morde-since-his-release-feb-24-2010-hes-all-i-know

Still ignored.

VoidgolemAug 10, 201520 votes

saying nothing is significantly better than false platitudes and broken promises.

Either way is going to make the community upset but this way you only get the short term bandwagon upset people as opposed to the long term "CertainlyT promised me a pony!"

vfactor95Aug 10, 201513 votes

See the thing is people don't actually want a solution, or rather they aren't willing to work towards one.

People complain about Rioters not listening to the community but how often do people here actually take the time to listen and process what Rioters say without automatically dismissing what they're doing if it doesn't perfectly fit with how the player thinks things should be.

Unfortunately most of the people here aren't capable of putting the thought or time into crafting responses to facilitate healthy discussion so they just default to one-sidedely putting all the responsibility and blame of miscommunication on Riot because that's the easy thing to do.

It always amuses me how people wonder why Rioters don't communicate more often on the forums.

Edit: In case it wasn't clear, I agree with you. Just wanted to add this on.

Knight SoIaire Aug 10, 20159 votes

CT is holding the stick here

if he would come here and write something ... he wouldnt get hate in return ... people woukld probably throw their feedback first becuase they want to compete and help

if how would do that often ... hate w ould die

the thing is that boards is always the second one .. the hate we give him is just a response to shit he gives us Seen riotrepertoir ? he talks here ... and everyone is happy even if they dont agree with the reworks so much

he appear once ... gets feedback and much hate appears second time ... gets feedback and little less hate

and it can go on to the point where he doesn't get that much hate

manbearswineAug 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TnEdN2ra,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-10T16:39:41.753+0000)

CT is holding the stick here

if he would come here and write something ... he wouldnt get hate in return ... people woukld probably throw their feedback first becuase they want to compete and help

if how would do that often ... hate w ould die

the thing is that boards is always the second one .. the hate we give him is just a response to shit he gives us Seen riotrepertoir ? he talks here ... and everyone is happy even if they dont agree with the reworks so much

he appear once ... gets feedback and much hate appears second time ... gets feedback and little less hate

and it can go on to the point where he doesn't get that much hate

I disagree.

Sure garen rework was hated then riotrepertoir started listening to feedback,but the thing is unlike certaintlyT riotrepertoir hasn't actually (let's say)pissed off anyone in particular,the garen rework was seen as bad and he is working to make that better,so as of now,no fails yet.

certaintlyT on the other hand has big abominations under his name,things like kalista,yasuo,thresh(and well zed,darius who I think are hated to a lesser extent,and zyra who you don't see anymore),see thing is that I(for example,but I'm guessing a lot of people see it the same way) see the existence of these three as a big mistake and a trap,and seeing how he has been outputing so much fail so fast(I mean other designers have fails of their own,like fizz,but they don't output them so consistently) I just have no faith in him,I can give him another shot if he admits these champions to be mistakes and intends to improve,but if he doesn't do that I have no reason to assume that his methods of designing and balancing aren't the same shit as before,so my criticism is going to remain in the same form of "get rid of this guy already".

Now obviously I'm not saying that my opinion is the only opinion,that's what upvotes,downvotes and posts are for,but it is still valid feedback,even if the feedback is "you fucking suck".

Knight SoIaire Aug 11, 20152 votes

certaintlyT on the other hand has big abominations under his name,things like kalista,yasuo,thresh(and well zed,darius who I think are hated to a lesser extent,and zyra who you don't see anymore),see thing is that I(for example,but I'm guessing a lot of people see it the same way) see the existence of these three as a big mistake and a trap,and seeing how he has been outputing so much fail so fast(I mean other designers have fails of their own,like fizz,but they don't output them so consistently) I just have no faith in him,I can give him another shot if he admits these champions to be mistakes and intends to improve,but if he doesn't do that I have no reason to assume that his methods of designing and balancing aren't the same shit as before,so my criticism is going to remain in the same form of "get rid of this guy already".

but there are still people who dont like new garen skarner and darius reworks and the way i see it they dont mind because they follow the development process

I get that CT wont be loved by community from the start ... but it takes one step to start rebuilding his image even if his design choices wont be always liked ... because it happens for every designer... he can get some points for simply talking to us about what sits in his head and allowing us to compete in that

It will take some time ... but it think that he can do it easily by just being here

manbearswineAug 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TnEdN2ra,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-08-11T10:56:28.519+0000)

but there are still people who dont like new garen skarner and darius reworks and the way i see it they dont mind because they follow the development process

I'm not sure that they necessarily don't mind,they just don't really have another choice.

I get that CT wont be loved by community from the start ... but it takes one step to start rebuilding his image

See the best way to start rebuilding your image is saying "what I was doing before 'name specifics' was bad,I have learned from that and aim to improve",if he doesn't do that there is no reason to believe he aims to rebuild his image,and no reason to give him a chance,instead the sensible response actually is "get lost,you fucking suck". If he hasn't changed his attitude from kalista/yasuo/thresh then I don't want him to have anything to do with design/balance.

even if his design choices wont be always liked ... because it happens for every designer...

He does seem to make those choices a lot more often,doesn't he?

he can get some points for simply talking to us about what sits in his head and allowing us to compete in that

He can,but my point was: don't expect me to just leave all the nonsense he created in the past,this post is about the community reaction to him,and I feel the constant negative attitude he gets from the community is both justified and deserved.

It will take some time ... but it think that he can do it easily by just being here

He can be here all he wants,but if he continues with his nonsense(as in yasuo,kalista,thresh) it won't matter. If he wants to change from his previous designs he should say so,if not you really can't expect the community to give him another chance.

ErgonoAug 10, 20157 votes

It's the age old chicken or the egg problem. When positive form of communication is left on deaf ears by Riot the behavioral consequence is to just raise hell because we all know nothing will get resolved regardless. The question is which came first poor Riot communication or just a Toxic community.

Given Riot's recent acknowledgement that they have so much technical debt that current reworks and system mechanics are years behind where they should have been. This because they prioritize making $$$ off nonsense than profit that revolves around the actual game, and because of that their communication will naturally be fragmented. #SkinsWins

I will say Riot was the catalyst for this type of behavior. CertainlyT just makes it more pronounced.

vfactor95Aug 10, 20156 votes

We can play the blame game or we can try to solve the problem. If our goal is to make the game better, we need to make every effort necessary to improve our communication.

If our goal is to bitch, whine and vent about how things are wrong without any intention of trying to make things better, well then I'd say we're on the right track.

ErgonoAug 10, 20155 votes

I Agree, but what I am trying to elucidate is that Riot continually show us that they themselves are not trying to solve these problems. The only reason why they made that push tor educe toxicity was because they needed a more positive E-Sports presence with sponsors etc. with the goal of $$$.

If Smite and HoS and other competition wasn't slowly creeping on them this new communication agenda with their blogs wouldn't have been as important either. Blizzard's sustain scares the hell out of them and now are just be hyper-reactive to the somewhat volatile market.

Silents429Aug 11, 20151 votes

The only reason why they made that push tor educe toxicity was because they needed a more positive E-Sports presence with sponsors etc. with the goal of $$$.

I actually remember a Riot member commenting saying Riot doesn't make a profit off of the E-Sports actually.

ErgonoAug 11, 20151 votes

That's horse crap... Exposure = money.. When kids want to grow up to be the next Faker or whoever that's the revenue and you don't make that revenue without positive exposure our sponsors will eventually bury you.

Of course having an LCS with a million dollar prize pool isn't helping when DOTA blows that out of the water. These kids still have some learning to do.

Silents429Aug 11, 20151 votes

You're right, let's trust you for this, not the people who would know.

ErgonoAug 11, 20151 votes

You obviously don't work in the corporate world or aren't paying attention. Most people working for a company don't know the underpinnings unless they are directly involved.

Or the statements they make are true, but also not true. E-sports may not directly make Riot a profit... True... E-Sports and the attention it garners leads to indirect profit... True

If there wasn't money involved in some way there wouldn't be an E-Sports push. game companies would see no value in it. Anything a company does has an ROI.. FACT

Silents429Aug 11, 20151 votes

They make profits by the attention it garners, but not enough where they dictate very move they do based on it. They make no profits if they focus on just E-Sports instead of the playerbase they have currently.

Voluug13Aug 10, 20151 votes

Link to where they admitted that?

Just curious.

ErgonoAug 11, 20151 votes

It was in one of their commercials a few years back when they had their giant corporate PR acknowledging what people were saying about their pizza sauce. The youtube video displays more than just the bad sauce remarks. Riot and other companies can learn from this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dominos-admits-pizza-was-the-worst-bets-the-company-on-ads-vowing-change/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH5R56jILag

http://www.perfectapology.com/dominos-pizza-apology.html

Crowe StalkerAug 10, 20151 votes

Upvoted for #SkinsWins. Honestly, screw skins like Underworld TwistedFate who are clearly broken when Riot does nothing.

TotalJerkAug 10, 20156 votes

Honestly that thread is a fucking mess on both sides. Anybody who has a reasonable complaint or feedback gets lumped in with the fucking lunatics and isn't given a reasonable response, meanwhile anything reasonable CertainlyT has to say is being down voted to oblivion. He's even getting downvoted for saying he'll look into bug reports.

I know it's going to be taken as "Censorship" and lead people on some kind of crusade, but honestly Riot needs to start suspending/banning people who are blatantly verbally abusing them so we can have room for sensible critics to be taken seriously.

JariAug 10, 20151 votes

Ups and downs to this. Riot can do it, but I think there is a reason why they don't just out right remove people that are doing that.

The reason why it's a good thing that they should suspend those that arrive just to attack employees is because there's no need for that. They aren't helping in any way, and actually could make things worse. Doesn't matter how much thick skin you have, it'll get to you eventually. And of course it'd clean this up.

They won't do it though because of a simple reason: Some people see it as attacking, while others might still see it different. And vise versa, something that actually is helping could still be taken as an attack, as that's how the internet is. It's fear of a rioter abusing that kind of power, since it'd make them think, "Wow, if this hurt me, I can remove it and it's gone forever."

Honestly with this Morde thing, I just don't know how well it's going to go. I'd give my thoughts, but I stopped PBE testing months ago. I don't know how it feels, so I can't give good feedback based apon what I've done. I just hope Morde doesn't die away.

Lil PeetoAug 10, 20154 votes

this has NOTHING to do with game play OR balance. Take this shit to GD

vfactor95Aug 10, 20153 votes

But it has to do with things that are happening on this specific board, even if the topic itself isn't strictly about G&B. I don't see why we should discuss something that's happening on this board on a separate one.

COWmanLordAug 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

But it has to do with things that are happening on this specific board, even if the topic itself isn't strictly about G&B. I don't see why we should discuss something that's happening on this board on a separate one.

I always find it weird when people get needlessly pissy over what board something is on. And technically speaking community interaction with each other and rioters could be considered an important part of gameplay.

Count BuffonAug 10, 20154 votes

While I'm not 100% in either camp, the huge difference is that for Rito, it's literally their job. They have vested interest in doing their job and maintaining a healthy company, and they have to be the grownup. It's also not true that anger on the player side has no impact. A mixed bag of negative responses, some more polite than others, carries a lot of weight, or at least they can only hold their ground on overwhelmingly unliked changes for so long before they start to hemorrhage revenue.

The fan base is a mixed bag and we have much less control over what anyone says beyond actionable forum TOS violations. ANGRY ANGRY GRRRR CERTAINTYT is still a message sent, even if that message is nothing more than a red flag.

stuartk11Aug 10, 20152 votes

Unfortunately, some people are morons. I suppose we have to live with that fact.

vfactor95Aug 10, 20152 votes

But we don't!

Even morons are able to recognize when they're in the wrong if enough people set an example as to how people should be behaving.

CasterGilgameshAug 10, 20152 votes

looking at the hate towards him and most of my rank matches truly make me hate this community im glad at least some people like you are at least saying that this hate needs to stop

ModKnightsKemplarAug 10, 20152 votes

The biggest problem with the way CertainlyT is being talked to is that reasonable posts about him rarely become visible. I'm astonished that this is as high up as it is.

Honestly, that's just kind of human nature. People tend to pay attention to more polarizing messages. That means that CertainlyT will see the most polarizing ones.

AuryielAug 11, 20152 votes

I mean I think it's silly, yeah, but then I think about it and... well good feedback makes no difference, so why does it matter? Good feedback thrown at CertainlyT is about as pertinent to the non-existent discussion as asking him to put a gun in his mouth (I have not stepped anywhere near any of those threads, but I assume such things have been said).

It really doesn't make the problem WORSE. It just shows how bad the problem is in the first place and that problem was created almost entirely by only 1 person.

I wouldn't bother giving feedback OR hating on him. It really just has no impact whatsoever.

lDontLiftIcarryAug 11, 20151 votes

He's had how many years to improve? Yeah.

Lost my patience after that abomination that was zyra+thresh(thresh is still an abomination but at least you don';t take 100+ damage auto's from a rank 1 E every few seconds anymore :^])