You know that keystone that lets you gain health for killing cannon/large monsters?

Pyrithegethon·Feb 1, 2016·31 votes·3,656 views

As it stands right now, if you aren't a jungler you will almost never utilize this keystone fully.

Why you may ask?

Because cannon minions come by every once in a while while large monsters are always there to kill.

Sure large monsters give you 10 health from cannon minions 20 but a jungler will almost always clear 30 camps by 20-25 minutes.

A laner that did not miss any cannon in his wave at the 20 minute mark will have killed roughly 13 cannon minions if they managed to kill them all.

Cannon minions are harder to obtain than large monsters and thus should reward more.

I propose cannon minions give 25 or 30 health per cannon. Thoughts?

33 Comments

QuephaFeb 1, 201612 votes

Why is it bad for a certain keystone to be better on junglers than laners?

Also, just because you're a laner doesn't mean you won't ever go into the jungle to clear a camp, or assist a jungler with the same thing.

AzteryzFeb 2, 20161 votes

exactly this^^

its like saying "hey im maokai and i dont usually crit but why cant warlords work for me????$" its cause its specifically designed for champs who can utilize it with their own strenghts like trynd

just like thunderlords its better for people with combos

dft for dots

bond of stone is for straight full tanks or tank supports

and so on

RookPusherFeb 1, 20168 votes

Uh, you can still do it. Just jump in on wolves, crows, gromp, and kurg once in awhile. Or take the enemies.

Also, I main Maokai who probably makes the most of Strength of the Ages, but in lane, why would you not take Grasp of the Undying?

Maximum MordeFeb 1, 20161 votes

I'm not a fan of Grasp of the undying. Don't like that the proc won't stay active unless you actually stay in combat. They need to increase the window on it or I'll just stick to other things.

RookPusherFeb 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tki02vXQ,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-02-01T17:05:26.844+0000)

I'm not a fan of Grasp of the undying. Don't like that the proc won't stay active unless you actually stay in combat. They need to increase the window on it or I'll just stick to other things.

I think I've missed something.

This is the one that heals you every 4 seconds by hitting an enemy champion. What's not staying active?

Maximum MordeFeb 1, 20161 votes

It's four second cooldown only runs while you are in combat. If you go out of combat you then have to be in combat for four seconds again before it becomes useable. Minions count for combat but it's still annoying.

TransgressorFeb 2, 20162 votes

That's like, your decision man.

Why the fuck would they "need" to make a change because you decided GotU doesn't fit you?

...

Maximum MordeFeb 2, 20161 votes

You seem to have misunderstood. I directly answered RookPusher's question of why someone might not take Grasp of the Undying in lane and my personal reasoning in my own decision not to. Nothing more.

TransgressorFeb 2, 20161 votes

They need to increase the window on it or I'll just stick to other things.

kasfasFeb 1, 20164 votes

That 8 to 10% heal on autos on champs make trades insane.

Dominick DestineFeb 1, 20167 votes

Strength of Ages is in a pretty good spot right now.

Do not ask for buffs. It will eventually come back to bite you in the ass.... or bite junglers in the ass.

Zero Skill TankFeb 1, 20161 votes

Maybe it is made so because junglers have less gold in general, tanky, slow clearing junglers in particular, so this is meant as chance for them to grab some cheap stats.

Yeah they have cinderhulk, but when cinderhulk was actually strong it was abused by toplaners, leading to 3-4 cinderhulks each game, this mastery in its current shape ties free HP to jungle just a little bit more.

Woook3rFeb 1, 20161 votes

does popy use this mastery?

KorilloFeb 1, 20164 votes

{quoted}

does popy use this mastery?

Poppy generally used the damage mitigation mastery, can't remember the name but it's the one that reduces damage by 4% or something along that line.

ZGM DazzlingFeb 1, 20161 votes

Grasp

KorilloFeb 1, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZGM Dazzling,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tki02vXQ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-02-01T17:11:07.814+0000)

Grasp

No Bond of Stone just looked it up that's what I was talking about.

LankPantsFeb 2, 20162 votes

Depends on role, support Poppy tends to use Bond of stone but overall Grasp is way more popular on her.

kasfasFeb 1, 20163 votes

Grasp is pretty good though, it procs the melee steal on the buckler.

Great ranged harass/heal.

QuephaFeb 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

does popy use this mastery?

Poppy generally uses Thunderlord's. If she wanted to be tanky she'd probably use strength of the ages in the jungle and bond of stone as support.

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Poppy generally uses Thunderlord's. If she wanted to be tanky she'd probably use strength of the ages in the jungle and bond of stone as support.

i always run ages on poppy. i see a lot of grasp of undying. but i think ages is the way to go.

The LovelessFeb 1, 20161 votes

I never thought, but maybe this would go good on non-Cinderhulk junglers. I usually opt for thunder lords

SaiannaFeb 1, 20161 votes

How about normal minions would give 1hp?

6 hp per wave (26 with cannon). Nothing game breaking, yet it feel nicer :)

HoodwinkFeb 1, 20161 votes

Feels too Sion-y. It's sorta like stealing his Soul Furnace passive.

Raven RedeemedFeb 1, 20161 votes

I like getting that mastery on Sion . He spends most of his time positioning or using abilities so Grasp of the Undying is meh, and he's usually deep in the front line so Bond of Stone isn't usually protecting your squishies. Strength of the Ages really helps Sion stack up that HP and it great when it's fully stacked and you are healing 6% of Sion's crazy late game hp values.

However, I agree it is much more difficult for lanes to stack than junglers. Sometimes the enemy laner will attack as I go the cannon so I have to forgo it. I might have to tp bot or just have a bad lane. If I miss those cannons for any reason, I'm missing out on 30 extra hp (on Sion) and have delayed the % healing.

Your extra hp per cannon is an interesting idea. I also think it would be fine if you were allowed to get the hp just by being close when it dies (for any reason).

GundayMondayFeb 1, 20161 votes

I counter jungle as a support. Works fine for me.

Livin like RivenFeb 1, 20161 votes

It's pretty good on supports for cheap stats if you don't mind giving up one of the other keystones. Cannons are pretty free with a relic shield and two people actively trying to get it dead, and if you leave to ward while your JG's around, you can actually sit near his camp for a sec and when he kills the camp, you can nab the passive that way, too. If you're fast enough, you could actually get one from bot, one from mid, then get wraiths with the JG, into scuttle and dragon for five quick ones, all while warding up the area to prepare for the dragon.

Beardyface86Feb 1, 20161 votes

I actually feel like this is a more balanced ketstone, definitely more risk/reward, and gated effectively. Unlike thunderlords, and windspeaker, which require little to NO setup. It's a gradual build with little to no toxicity. Again, something thunderlords and windspeakers lack.

La BarbotteFeb 1, 20161 votes

or just tax his jungle and get raged on

ChaoticPineconeFeb 1, 20161 votes

Wait - what?

going by your numbers, Large Monsters give 10 health and jungler should clear 30 camps by 20-25 minutes. Cannons give 20 health and get 13 by 20 (so at least 15 by 25, right?). So they should balance out around the same time. Of course, its different if you miss every cannon (just like its different if you get invaded and the enemy takes every large monster you get).

SohleksFeb 1, 20161 votes

Definitely a lil undertuned for laners.

IDK. It's either a stat stick keystone. Or it can heal you late game which is kinda interesting. The problem though if the healing is introduced earlier it's simply more directly competing with grasp in a less interactive way.

TBH I'm not sure if resolve has ummm. Engaging keystones beside grasp. Certainly not so much weak but more like... flat and uninteresting..? We have things like thunderlords and dft, stormraiders or grasp having visual impact and fantasy. But other two resolve keystones are just there. Invisibly granting tankiness.

I think it's good we have one keystone for bonus hp to improve desire to build resistance (it's not good optimally it's limited to junglers however). The other is flat damage reduction. Perhaps that could be better if it was retargeted as a armor/mr keystone to improve its desire to tanks who prefer HP in their buildpaths.

Bond of stone as a support keystone is doing nothing to me to fulfill a "fantasy." Its damage transfer is negligibly small and invisible to provide satisfaction that way.

I'll try my creative hand at a mastery to replace bond of stone: your champion's skin gradually turns to smooth iron as he receives champion damage [making them look like iron mario], increasingly higher armor/mr bonus as stacks are given: fervor of iron ( horrible name lul, came out with the fantasy before the name or thinking of fervor of battle)

As a gnar main I find none of the resolve keystones super great. But grasp works okay especially since he is resourceless.

invisiblecat1Feb 2, 20161 votes

I think it was purposely built to help farm junglers get tankier, rather then more lane champions to abuse it to get even more health.

LankPantsFeb 2, 20161 votes

I don't think Strength of Ages is very good right now full stop. I've not even been running it on my junglers and I'm a Sejuani main. Grasp of the Undying just feels like the best resolve mastery to me, I think people underestimate how much this mastery does, especially on HP stackers like Sej.

I really can't think of a champ who I'd prefer Strength of Ages on, Maybe if Thunderlord's gets more nerfs Strength of Ages could become the best on Elise since it would help out with her sketchy base HP a lot, but as it stands now it just feels really bad to me.

It's only 800 gold worth of stats once it's stacked up. Grasp usually does over 100 damage for a straight tank and heals them equally, which seems like it's worth more than 800 gold to me.

OksanaandjoyFeb 2, 20161 votes

I like it in lane as Maokai support. Take it with relic shield and there is even more reason to be getting those cannon minions. He's not the tankiest of dudes so the extra HP helps out. That said, I have had games where at 20 mins I haven't cracked 100 hp; bad games that need to be forgotten. I do usually remind my adc to focus the cannons though (not that they should need reminding, but it's helpful that they understand the double importance of hitting them). On the average game, I don't feel like it takes too long to get a decent amount of HP up.

Maokai doesn't need grasp as he has that built into his kit and bond's difference seems negligible.

I like the ideas of roaming to pick up more mentioned below, but I find my adc's don't know how to back off while i'm away. It's just too dangerous. I'd love to get to the point where i'm roaming bot to mid, but it just doesn't feel safe in my (and my peer's) ability range.