Solution to the problem of ADCs, Tanks, and Support items being too powerful.

AirKingNeo··3 votes·1,307 views

History over the past 2 years tells us ADCs are always unhealthy when: 1) Crit builds are too cheap and 2) ADC items are too expensive. It also tells us tank items are way too cheap and the argument that "tanks get less gold thus need cheaper items" no longer holds up, especially the early game. The past year also tells us supports being too strong makes ADC too strong and makes assassins and bruisers fucking garbage.

Solution is simple. If Crit is too broken when not too costly in it's current state, then nerf the power of Crit to justify lower costs. This also means tanks will have to hits, but also changes because their current item set is clearly what it should not be. Support items also take a hit, specifically Ardent Censer and tank ones which tanks are abusing.

  • Infinity Edge's critical damage modifier reduced to +35% from +50% (235% AD for crits from 250% AD). Attack damage lowered to 65 from 70. Cost reduced by 50 gold.

  • Reduces overall late game power with reduction to AD and Critical Damage, but slightly compensates with a cost reduction. Cost reduction is also to keep decent combine cost with a future change/

  • Essence Reaver reworked. 2900 Gold = Caulfield's Warhammer + Pickaxe + Cloak of Agility + 125 Gold. 60 AD, 20% Crit Chance, 20% cooldown reduction, same passive.

  • Cooldown reduction is given right away and cost is heavily reduced, making the item a much stronger first item. However, the lost to 10 AD and 10% cooldown reduction makes it much worse later into the game, where caster style ADCs should fall off but mostly do not currently due to overall ADC strength and scaling being too much.

  • Rapid Firecannon's passive and Stattik Shiv's passive can no longer co-exist, similar to the Harmony and Dissonance passives of Mikael's Crucible and Athene's Unholy Grail respectively. If possible, make buying one disable the buying of the other.

  • Lord Dom's bonus damage based on health difference reduced to 10%. Bonus armor pen increased by 5%. (Power shift from killing bruisers and tanks to killing tanks moreso.)

  • Rageblade get's slightly changed. Stacks of item now give 6% attack speed from 8%, but the item now has 30% attack speed starting (11% attack speed loss). Cost is also reduced by 200 gold.

  • This is mainly to lower Kog'Maw's power much like Infinity Edge, but cost reductions to keep neutral.

  • Bami's Cinder is the core item for tanks, or is supposed to be but it sucks. Build path and cost changed to Ruby Crystal + Ruby Crystal + Rejuvenation Bead + 300 gold; total cost of 1250 gold; 50% base health regen + 350 health. Passive damage adjusted so it hurts champions a bit more and hurts minions about the same.

  • Basically this makes Bami's Cinder a strong laning phase item mirroring Tiamat. Don't worry, other tank items are being nerfed to compensate for Sunfire being made into a good item. Build paths for Cinderhulk and Sunfire changed accordingly to Bami's Cinder + Chain Vest/Smite Enhancement.

  • Following the Bami's Cinder change, Sunfire gets it's own set of adjustments. Cost reduced to 2850 gold, gains +100% base health regen following Cinder's change. (800 Gold combine cost.)

  • Stoneplate nerfed and changed. Builds from 2 Aegis of Legions. Gives 60 Armor and 60 Magic Resistance plus 20 Armor and MR while near 3 or more enemies. Costs 3300 Gold. Active nerfed so health counts as base health instead of bonus (no longer interacts with Locket or Cho'Gath's ultimate).

  • This item is currently overpowered and if you showed this item in it's current state to someone in season 2-5 people would ask if you were insane. Also tanks have no expensive, late game item so I thought they should have one instead of having nothing.

  • Locket HP scaling reduced to 15% bonus health. Stop building it in top lane and jungle.

  • Knight's Vow armor reduced by 5. Damage mitigation/healing based on bonded ally lowered to 8%.

  • Targon's Embrace, Face of the Mountain, and Eye of Equinox now give 1.5x gold to the player (who has the item) when they execute a minion. (Compensation to their items being nerfed.)

  • Coin gold generation is nerfed. (LCS game a guy had 2000 gold more gold with coin than a guy with spellthief.)

  • Ardent Censer attack speed reduced to 20%. Healing onhit reduced to 10-25 based on level.

  • Maokai's healing from his passive nerfed. Health per R - Feast reduced on Cho'Gath. Sej and Zac CC is nerfed. Zac's latest nerf gets reverted though.

ADCs are less damaging. Tanks are less tanky. Supports are less overpowered. Tank supports (hopefully) stay viable. Cho'Gath can't locket for 1000 and can't nuke for 1700. ADCs heal less with lifesteal since their damage is reduced. Bruisers are more viable.

23 Comments

Rexxiee3 votes

Lol, you're nerfing adcs 10 times harder than supports or tanks when the later 2 are actually a lot more broken than adcs.

Nerfing supports would already make adcs worse, shit like ardent is what makes ie + double zeal item be good since they dont even need to buy sustain and they get more damage.

AirKingNeo2 votes

No? ADCs get IE nerfed, Essence adjusted (nerfs to caster's late game but buffs to early), and RFC and Shiv cannot co-exist. Tanks lose Locket and Knight's Vow, while gaining Sunfire and getting Stoneplate to a reasonable price. Tanks also get their broken champions nerfed. Supports get Ardent, Locket, and Knight's Vow nerfed.

What does it matter if nerfing supports lower ADC survivablility? ADCs are just that broken right now that the only mistake you can make is to not auto attack during a fight.

Big Lincoln2 votes

Sej and Zac CC is nerfed.

nice, right into the dumpster for these awful reworks, i like it.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Didn't care if they were garbage or not to be fair. Down with overpowered champions and up with bruisers! (and assassins too, I guess.)

http://prntscr.com/g596qd

Geshultz1 votes

I mean literally 4 of highest winrates are bruisers or fighters on your link.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Those are all tanks.

Big Lincoln1 votes

all 4 of them are tanks with higher winrates who are also played more than the champs directly beneath them Shyvana Warwick

The Leo Cat2 votes

You do understand that most of the changes you suggested for ADCs are going to throw multiple champions into the dumpster? There are a number of champions who are completely dependent on Crits.

Xayah Kindred for example.

The price also doesn't even justify the output at this point either.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Xayah already does way too much damage and nerfs to Crit (but price reductions) will make her more balanced on the fact she invalidates melees using her E. Also she has a massive damage boost in her W (20% more is a ton). If she's weak, slightly buff her W then. This is just a general changelist and isn't absolute. If you have a genuine problem, then please suggest a solution if you can.

Kindred is in a wonky place. Worth buffing, but also really just needing a rework. Most Kindred do one of the following builds: item 1412 + item 3087 + item 3031 item 3715 + item 3031 + item 3087 This changelist would probably be a buff to the second build path (which is unironically viable and used), though I'd rather just buff Kindred in general.

The Leo Cat1 votes

Except that Xayah is one of the few ADCs with limited kiting abilities, pretty much no forms of escape, or reliable self peel. Her whole power comes from area control, and she lives and breaths in team fights if she can avoid being dived on top of by a Jarvan. Her damage is fine for all of the flaws she has.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Xayah has a speed boost on her W when auto attacking and her E to kite. She can use her ultimate to escape and even nuke using her E with it, which is very absurd.

Xayah deals too much damage, and her flaws is that she deals too much damage for having the second-third best kiting.

The Leo Cat1 votes

Her escape ability is on her -ULT- with the cool down of an ult. Which she must choose to use it for damage or not. The ult alone doesn't deal a lot of damage, and it can actually miss when people are in the cone. It's the recall that actually gets you.

Also there are ADCs who still kite much better than Xayah and can get their damage off more reliably. Xayah's strength is area control, not kiting. It's a biproduct, and someone who knows how to move in a way to chase Xayah will avoid being struck by her root on the E.

Kalista, Kogmaw, Kindred, Ashe, Lucian, Tristana these champions have a better time kiting than Xayah.

AirKingNeo1 votes

You're saying the 6 feather nuke isn't a lot of damage? Only Ashe and Kalista kite better than Xayah, and Ashe is putting it roughly.

The Leo Cat2 votes

Yes I am saying the six feather nuke isn't a lot of damage, because the likely hood of you getting hit by all six are slim. The -recall- is the part that hurts. And that completely depends on if she has it up or not. Which is why her core item is essence reaver. It helps reduce that long cool down and scales the damage on her E.

AirKingNeo1 votes

6 feather nuke is literally 40% of a bruisers HP. What?

The Leo Cat1 votes

{quoted}

6 feather nuke is literally 40% of a bruisers HP. What?

Oh wow... so impressive. Meanwhile you have several other champions who can blow apart 60% of a bruisers HP in a single second.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Who? Cho'Gath ult boosted by stoneplate?

The Leo Cat1 votes

Lucian ult + BOTRK, Twitch ult, Vayne + Duskblade ult, Vi standard combos, Urgot's shotgun knees mid game, Nasus, Veigar when matched against someone who doesn't understand how to play safe, Cassiopeia, Orianna has been known for one shotting ADCs and chunking tanks without ever popping ult, Riven, Kindred's skill rotation when she reaches her late game, Shin works wonders on Bruisers - not so much tanks, Warwick, Yasuo, Kayne with just a cleaver... the list goes on.

Honestly, what you presented with Xayah is making a mountain out of a mole hill. You also forgot two major problems in how her ult works.

The ult fires six feathers in a fan formation. If she's in point blank range, then yes... all six feathers will hit. But here's the problem. The arrows going out will not damage an enemy more than once. This means if you use it like a shotgun, at most you can only get 200 +100% Bonus AD once. The recall is what hurts. To chunk a bruiser like you claim you need to land a good number of those quills on recall. Because the ult fires this in a fan formation they need to get fairly close to you, even if you were to stretch the height of that cone.

Here's the second problem. During the time of her ult, she's untargetable, sure. But she's at her most vulnerable state inside the ult as well. Why? Control over her movement is now limited and is very predictable. She stands out among the chaos as she floats over head, making it easier for players to see exactly where she is. And lastly she just burned her only escape, and it will be down for the rest of the fight. A bruiser, or a tanky support can simply face tank the ult and line up a stun, a knock up, a grab, or burst her immediately, or what ever to keep her from recalling. Given how squishy she is, and how poorly some of the sustain items works for her. She will die almost immediately if anyone gets ontop of her.

This is why higher ELO Xayah's do not recommend using the ult for anything except for an "Oh Shit" button.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Those are all ultimates but a few and do not knock a bruiser down by 60% of their HP in 1 second as you claimed.

The Leo Cat2 votes

What ever man, believe what you will. You're obviously got this set in your head.

AirKingNeo1 votes

That's because you keep making stuff up that's factually incorrect.

The Leo Cat1 votes

Again, believe what you will. If you want to argue about ADCs being too powerful so bad, go bitch to meddler about giving Vayne built in sustain on her ult.

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