Retring Aatrox

OlafRagnarson··133 votes·8,463 views

1000 ranked games with him. I've done every build possible. I've played against every champion. Ive had win streaks, and slumps. Great games, and games where I play like an idiot.

In the end, I give up. I wanted to win with a weak champion just for the challenge, and because I thought he was fun, but no more.

Riot can't even fix their champions to make all of them relevant and competitive. When comparing ults, cool downs, base stats, scaling and CC, aatrox comes up short in nearly all of those against nearly all other top laners and beyond.

All because he has sustain and a revive. As per frickin usual they release champ without thinking it through and then nerf him into oblivion because they can't figure out what to do with him.

Its not worth it anymore. There is too much CC these days, and too many champs that do much better.

I have offered up numerous well thought out suggestions on what to do with Aatrox.

There are many things you can do with Aatrox. Here is one suggestion:

Get rid of his revive. Instead, let it have an AOE effect when he dies, hurting enemies and healing allies based on how much blood was in his well. Get rid of his poke and make his E a pushing or defensive move that uses that big ol fist he has. Make his ult a team benefiting aura to be consistent with his lore.

I could come up with infinite ideas. The point is Riot, you don't have to choose between making him OP or not OP. You could move him into another direction as great team fighter, and scale him down as a 1v1 duelist.

UPDATE: After reading so many comments I decided to try to get out of my funk.

I ran this build against Malphite top and did the 2nd most damage on the team and we won despite a bad bot lane: item 3153 item 3124 item 3111 item 3742 item 3071 item 3075

I have to say, the deadman's plate mobility made a huge difference. I was able to 1v1 anyone on their team by level 18.

I'm going to do one last run, with item 3153 item 3124 item 3111 item 3742 as my core build with the last 2 items being situational and see what happens.

200 Comments

HoukagoFapTime20 votes

1-After 1000+ ranked you're still in silver, i don't want to offend or sound mean but maybe you still have a lot to work on. Even if you've been playing a "weak" champ like aatrox.

2- I think he needs a Shen level rework, keep some stuff and completely dump other things. His W is fine, his passive can stay (maybe with some small changes), buff his Q (range/radius, invincibility while doing it since it's so damn easy to stop or dodge), completely dump his E, i don't even know why he has that spell, almost useless after the laning phase. Dump his Ult and give him something better that fits the champion thematic.

Crossette6 votes

Climbing out of bronze and silver is near fucking impossible, cut him some slack.

His W needs changes.

Duke Anax11 votes

I consider it far from useless, without it I#d have even more trouble sticking on my target.

OlafRagnarson5 votes

You don't sound mean. The reality is I prevented myself from moving up by not caring much about other roles and therefore losing out on wins when I wasn't at top. The other issue is that I would run aatrox into any champion regardless of how much of a counter that champion was. If I was playing how I was last season, and had the tenacity of merc treads and zephyr when needed against some champions, and actually did well in other lanes, I would probably not be in silver. But moving up in rank was not my main goal. The goal was to move up with Aatrox against any and every champion.

KING OF MASKS3 votes

I've always thought Aatrox was a boring mess of a champion and questioned why anyone in their right mind would play him... but that's some serious dedication. I can certainly respect that.

NinjaFifer191 votes

So, on that vein, why were you playing ranked at all if you weren't trying your best to win? I mean, I know you were obviously trying to win, but only going Aatrox, into any and all matchups, and with no care for other lanes, is practice, not competitive.

I'm glad you're bringing us your experience on the matter, and I like the way you're phrasing and laying out things, but the whole thing should have been conducted in normals. By saying "I prevented myself from moving up by not caring much about other roles and therefore losing out on wins when I wasn't at top," you're also saying that you prevented the other 4 members of your team from moving up at the same time. Ranked is for winning, above all else. You (and all the other people of the same mindset) shouldn't be playing it at all if you aren't going in willing to do anything to get your team the win.

OlafRagnarson3 votes

Seeing how a champion does in normals is the same as testing your poker skills in a game of fake money--it really isn't the same.

KaisadiIIa3 votes

Your mechanical skill when playing the game has nothing to do with your understanding of its mechanics. A lot of rioters that mess with balance, kit design and the likes are silver/gold players and yet they work properly (even if they commit mistakes), which then they give to actual high-skilled players (their diamond/challenger testers) that give feedback and help tuning the champion (usually tweaking numbers).

No matter if you are Bronze or Diamond, you can see that Ekko's kit is really overloaded, while pre-rework Gangplank really missed an ability. You can see that Rengar instagib mechanics are really toxic, while Kata can be easily stopped with CC.

Of course most Bronze players will rage at Kata or so, but because they lack game knowledge. As long as some brings out good arguments or has thought-out suggestions, I will consider their opinion regardless of their rank.

MagicDragon30012 votes

Not everybody can be relevant and competitive, dude. There are so many champs in this game that there are bound to be better ones than others because people start to catch on to their best options easily. Rito can't just balance their game perfectly because of the sheer amount of content either. Since it's impossible to make every champion equal in power competitively, Rito instead goes for a system of perfect imbalance, where there are good and bad champs, but the better player always has a shot at winning with whatever they pick. Rito is thinking of an Aatrox rework, so that should give you some hope, but even after the rework, there might just still be better champs than him top lane because of how the game works. Bottom line though, Rito can't make everybody good, and scolding them for not doing so is really unrealistic

TheDevice44 votes

{quoted}

Not everybody can be relevant and competitive, dude. There are so many champs in this game that there are bound to be better ones than others because people start to catch on to their best options easily. Rito can't just balance their game perfectly because of the sheer amount of content either. Since it's impossible to make every champion equal in power competitively, Rito instead goes for a system of perfect imbalance, where there are good and bad champs, but the better player always has a shot at winning with whatever they pick. Rito is thinking of an Aatrox rework, so that should give you some hope, but even after the rework, there might just still be better champs than him top lane because of how the game works. Bottom line though, Rito can't make everybody good, and scolding them for not doing so is really unrealistic

I think he's scolding them for not really trying to fix him. They've given him a few slight buffs but so many other champions have gotten more attention than aatrox who's been in a terrible spot nearly since release.

They might even say that Aatrox was a special case due to his kit yet they dont treat him as a special case. They treat him as a failed experiment and gave him a few slight touch-ups to make him somewhat playable until they get around to him. The frustrating part about that is people have grown attatched to him, bought skins, and put in many hours playing him only to realize how underwhelming the champion really is and how pointless it is to expect him to receive any real attention. Then they come on boards, give suggestions, ask riot about his current state, only to get the usual "we're thinking about him.. but nothing is planned" reply or none at all.

Eventually people do exactly what this guy is saying; they stop playing Aatrox.

Then guys like you come on and defend Aatrox and riot when you don't even play aatrox. You might "have a friend" who does well with aatrox or you might have seen him once in a plat game, but thats it.

The other type of people who defend aatrox say stuff like "if a player is really good they can win with any champion". Yeah, thats like saying there are 9 guys bringing machine guys to war while one guy brings only his knife. No matter how "good" of a soldier you are, you're an idiot if you're not bringing the most capable weaponry available. It still doesn't make the knife better than the gun.

Shen was reworked.... why? Not saying it was a bad rework or that I don't like it. But why was he reworked? He was seeing competetive play. He was being played far more than Aatrox. He had a solid winrate/playrate. Why did he get so much attention.

In the end, people just come to the usual conclusion which is Riot is pretty damn biased towards their champions. They don't care for each champion equally or even try to (as you say) and instead put most of their attention into about 30 or so champions that their staff is partial to.

Like look at morde lol. He got this really half-assed rework, just really clunky and almost make-shift and on top of that didn't even bother to give him a visual update lol. I mean if I was a dedicated morde player.... I'd be pretty salty.

Btw, I agree with you. I think Riot creates Real Champions and Filler Champions. The real champions are Lee Sin, Riven, etc. The champions their staff all love and want to see do well. Then there are the Filler Champions who they release to make money but don't really care if they do well or not.

MagicDragon3002 votes

Shen probably got reworked because his player base is larger. At the end of the day, Rito is a business and they're out to make some dough. That and Shen did need a mild touch up on his w, but probably the biggest motivation was the size of the playerbase and fame of the champion. I agree Aatrox needs something, but he's probably in the back of the line to what Rito wants to touch first, like Taric, Yorick, Warwick, immobile mages, and so on.

Sevixys1 votes

Aatrox is fine and doesn't need a rework before those you mentioned. Riot has also confirmed that engage fighters(aatrox, irelia, riven, name others) are getting a huge rework after those and i bet aatrox will be there. His problems are thematical mostly

Atm he synergizes really well with both sated devourer and Fervor keystone. That's why i play him as a jungler. The passive usually gives you the first blood (towerdiving with LB is fun..)

FioraWillCarry1 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox is fine and doesn't need a rework before those you mentioned. Riot has also confirmed that engage fighters(aatrox, irelia, riven, name others) are getting a huge rework after those and i bet aatrox will be there. His problems are thematical mostly

Atm he synergizes really well with both sated devourer and Fervor keystone. That's why i play him as a jungler. The passive usually gives you the first blood (towerdiving with LB is fun..)

Why are they reworking my Irelia ?

Baron of Bread6 votes

Because she is a ball of stats that punishes her opponent for injuring her. That isn't me being salty, that is just a near quote (that I don't feel like looking up) of a Rioter.

Don't worry though, it will likely be a rework in the same level of the marksmen reworks so she will probably just have her theme more solidified.

WoonStruck1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TehdoIpE,comment-id=000d00000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-19T20:44:39.917+0000)

Because she is a ball of stats that punishes her opponent for injuring her. That isn't me being salty, that is just a near quote (that I don't feel like looking up) of a Rioter.

Don't worry though, it will likely be a rework in the same level of the marksmen reworks so she will probably just have her theme more solidified.

No, she's going to be completely reworked, retaining her Q, possibly ult in a Xerath fashion, where its retooled somewhere else in the kit.

Her Q and of course its resets are the most entertaining and the most defining aspect of her gameplay.

Aside from that, she doesn't punish people for injuring her. It was an effective way of preventing her engage from being too strong. If they didn't make her E how it is it would just be a normal melee stun and she'd absolutely destroy any squishy she decided to engage on. You should be glad she can't stun you 100% of the time. She'd be both harder to balance and easier to play than Xin.

Removing that removes an interesting ability that makes a bruiser think a little more about engages, which is ALWAYS a good thing.

Paletongue2 votes

No, the Rioter who said that was speaking to IF HE were the one to fix Irelia, what he PERSONALLY would want to do.

She's a long way off from a rework, please don't spread misinformation, as nothing has been confirmed.

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

No, the Rioter who said that was speaking to IF HE were the one to fix Irelia, what he PERSONALLY would want to do.

She's a long way off from a rework, please don't spread misinformation, as nothing has been confirmed.

Several Rioters have mentioned wanting Irelia to be reworked, mostly to thematically emphasize her blades better. Everyone knows its a very, very far off rework, even if they didn't know it was something several Rioters wanted already. Many other champions are ahead of her in priority, and several are already actually planned.

It wasn't just one saying what he wanted to do. All of the ones that mention her say a total rework to make better use of her floating blades would be optimal. It was just one that mentioned keeping Q and putting something similar to her R somewhere else in her kit, though.

Paletongue2 votes

Thank you for clarifying yourself. Your original post to skewed to suggest otherwise.

Yep, not many at Riot are happy with Irelia in general, and a rework is pretty unavoidable. Bad gameplay-theme matchup, unhealthy gameplay patterns currently, etc. etc.

The Blue Rajah7 votes

I disagree. Quinn, for example had an absolutely minuscule player base. Smaller than Shen's. And she got a substantial update.

I'm not entirely certain how they select champions to update, but I do suspect inspiration has a noticeable role in it. Ashe for example, was noted by riot to simply have been updated in repertoir's off time because he had a good idea for it. I suspect the opposite is true for aatrox. They simply don't know what to do with him, so they're not doing anything.

Northmund1 votes

It is because they needed someone to rework.Other adc were fine she was not.They reworked popular adc in a first place like Graves Corki Ashe Caitlyn

I am a Feminist1 votes

{quoted}

It is because they needed someone to rework.Other adc were fine she was not.They reworked popular adc in a first place like Graves Corki Ashe Caitlyn

how did you even find this post?

Northmund1 votes

Ya know was searching for some aatrox rework info. Same question to you now :D

I am a Feminist1 votes

{quoted}

Ya know was searching for some aatrox rework info. Same question to you now :D I found it because you bumped a 6 month old thread?

Northmund1 votes

So you were following this one or some stuff?

I am a Feminist1 votes

{quoted}

So you were following this one or some stuff?

Bud, when you comment in a post. You bump it so others can see it on the main page, I saw it browsing the main page. This will be my last comment because necro'ing is bad so stop doing it.

Northmund1 votes

Sounds like a bullshit. I wanted to say my opinion on something, why would i care if post was long ago? Maybe someone else would be interested in it again.

Insanity Song8 votes

given aatroxs lore i would love to see him as a big teamfighter who knows maybe a aura that boost the movement and attackspeed of allies when he ults so being in a teamfight he can actually mean something he would actually be the inspiring fighter like in his lore leading teams into a rampage of a fightAatrox

TyroneWatermelon8 votes

The in combat sustain does not work as riot's intention. Aatrox gets bursted down too much fast before he can sustain,and even then a lot of top laners can just Outrade him. If you quit playing him,have fun,because I am still not,and I'm gonna solve Aatrox's problems one day and be the greatest Aatrox player.

OlafRagnarson6 votes

Good luck. I wish they still have the Zephyr.

Criomhthann6 votes

A sustain fighter with a revive passive is never going to be good. He was a train wreck at the start and he needs a full rework.

OlafRagnarson2 votes

Agreed.

SIayton6 votes

Aatrox's revive sucks anyway, it should barely be a balancing point. You die, get up with 0 attack speed and like 2 health. What's the point? It's good in the laning phase but come team fighting it's absolutely useless, and he pays a huge price in base stats for it.

Drugoth4 votes

Holy crap man! You have over 1400 ranked games played in season 5 and you're still silver4? Where is the improvement?

EDIT: I play a LOT less league then you and manage to get Silver 1 almost in gold...

EDIT2: Sorry if I sound like a douche... also how do you have that much free time? You spent approx 32 days last season just playing ranked league.

Legal Wrights3 votes

Yorick

Squidblimp3 votes

What if his ultimate gave an aura for his allies that gave them bonus life steal and spell vamp?

Cindikle3 votes

The passive just needs to go in it's current form.

Riot has done well with other AD champion that builds squishier.

  • Yi - Hypercarry. Doesn't require lanning, so shutting him down is mostly winning before he becomes a god.
  • Yasou - Possibly dethroned Lee Sin as the most complained about champion.
  • Trynd - Debatable. But he does what he does well and has the tools to work. A little broken as a champion? Sure, his kit can be toxic. But he's never really OP or too weak. He just might break a current meta that can't handle split pushing.
  • Riven - Top contender of the boards circle jerk.
  • Gangplank - Unique playstyle. Nothing too overboard after this nerfs.
  • Fiora - Scary what she can do when played right.

Then we have Aatrox. Like most melee AD's who don't build tank. He's meant to be in the fray doing a lot of damage.

Unlocked most melee AD's, he's not built to survive this. He's built to die and come back. He really has little to handle this.

His sustain is weak. Assuming 250 bonus AD. His W heals him for 102.5 health every 3rd hit. Or about 34 a hit. Meaning this is the same as doing 170 damage with a basic attack with a BT(20% lifesteal). I'll actually admit this is probably balanced. But sustain is meant to be part of his survival as a melee AD that doesn't build tank. And his damaging abilities cost him HP. For a champion built around a health system and built to survive combat through sustain. He doesn't do it well.

His CC isn't reliable. While they're not bad. They mostly only help him enter a fight. Their impact in a fight is much less. Q has a long enough channel time that using it in close combat and not a gap closer will result is less overall damage from the self CC and lack of AA's. On top of the Hp cost. E I'm not too sure of. I haven't played him enough. But it's likely best to save for the CC than the damage.

With the above on his Q and E being better saved than used for damage. His ult is mostly an AA steroid. The ult's damage works with nothing Aatrox builds(magic damage/ap). Overall he gets AA range and attack speed from this.

So we're left with a champion that Q's into a fight. And AA's. That's it. No gimmicks. He's expected to sustain his way through all the burst coming his way. Not once, but twice.

The passive is just not made in a good way.

Passive - Surviving Through Carnage -- Bask in the Battle - Being near a slain enemy will heal Aatrox for 5%(+1% per level) over 5 seconds after the enemies demise. Allies are healed as well if the enemy is champion. Does not stack, clearing a wave will not heal you for 30%(+6%). This gives him some strong sustain, but creates openings for his enemies to deny him

-- Blood Well - Upon Aatrox's death all nearby allies gain 10% Attack damage, Ability Power and Movement Speed. If these allies kill 3 enemy champions, Aatrox will be revived with HP based on how long he was dead to a minimum of 20%. Aatrox's deaths, even if revived, will reward gold to the enemy team. _Yes, this has no cooldown. Instead it rewards gold to the enemy. Meaning you wont be tower diving with this. And it takes 3 enemy kills to active the revive. So you likely wont get two off in a battle. Unless it's a very extended battle. These two passives are meant to be his theme this lore gives. He thrives in battle and empowers through battle. _

Other changes:

Q - Untargetable while at the very top of his flight. It's short, mainly to give it an in-combat use to avoid attacks by luck. Not meant to turn him into Fizz.

W - Reworked - Gives 4/8/12/16/20% physical damage dealt as healing when attacking enemy champions as a passive. Now activates to an AA reset that heals Aatrox based on his enemies missing health(higher at lower enemy HP). Aatrox will also continue to AA this target while moving as long as they don't leave his range for up to 5 seconds or 3 AA's.

E - No change

R - Activation removes CC. AA range and AS stays for the same duration. For 3 seconds after activation, all damage dealt to himself or nearby allies is distributed between those allies. Allies who fall under 20% HP will break from this effect and instead be healed for 10% of all of Aatrox's self healing.

Sure maybe numbers would need tweaking. But at least he fits who he is. He's a threat in battle as well. Still AA focused through. More of a support melee ADC. Which is his theme lore wise.

arcinex2 votes

The problem is lies withing the player not the champion. Aatrox is honestly broken when played to it's full potential, which I can't imagine a silver player is capable of yet.

Criomhthann19 votes

Aatrox is honestly broken when played to it's full potential

My sides are in orbit.

Bionic Avian2 votes

I felt the same way about Quinn before her rework, so I can understand where you're coming from. Riot doesn't let champs like this go unnoticed, I know that, it's just they have a lot to focus on with balance-changes from this season. He will see his day, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Sevixys2 votes

I started maining Aatrox a while ago and IMO he is perfectly fine. (80% win rate in silver I elo, not counting as much)

Sevixys5 votes

Hmm, just noticed that you are silver 4.. With 1k ranked games that is weird :P

Daxterr2 votes

I pretty much did the same thing as you OP. I played like 80 aatrox games in a row trying to find a way to make him work. Needless to say I stopped and declared he was the worst champ in the game.

Sated devourer was basically meant for aatrox, it's incredibly strong on him. The fact that sated aatrox never became popular really says something about how bad he is.

The Loveless2 votes

I played him on my other smurf and one of my allies never connected. The only reason I could hold on and not lose was because I jungles and had sated. I didn't like it though since I built NO other damage and it took me forever to kill, but the enemy team also struggled to kill me in 4v5 fights since I had visage as well.

I don't know how well that would work in a non-smurf game since lvl30 players typically know they can ignore the non-threatening Aatrox and kill his teammates first. It just feels bad not having damage. It's like if you tried to play tank Lee, Ekko or Rek'Sai. Not dealing damage on champions like these is the opposite of interesting, since I do NOTHING but absorb damage. Aatrox should be a damage dealer, and sadly Sated Devourer is not enough to give him burst and survivability early game since it costs hp to proc his red w

The Loveless2 votes

The problem I've had with Aatrox from the beginning was that he required too much to actually work. He needs attack speed, especially to proc w, and he isn't a caster who relies on abilities for damage. He needs damage so the little bit of scaling he does have doesn't go to waste. He needs health and defenses to survive group fights because he is a melee who is even encouraged to dive into the fray. He needs crit and/or lifesteal and/or on-hits to be relevant since his ratios are low, and thus all he does is basic attack single targets to be of use. Lastly(?), he needs to manage his blood well resource in order to gain more passive attack speed, as well as increase the amount of healing he gets when/if he revives.

For the most part, he needs way to many item types (AD, AS, HP, MR, Armor, Crit, LS, maybe CDR, maybe on-hits, maybe MS if he's much to slow to catch targets). These types don't mix well in such sparse quantities because then he's just got a jack-of-all-trades lists of stats, while mastering none.

I think he could be fixed if he was given better allotted steroids. We see how Jhin can gain ad from crit and attack speed, so he has less to worry about. Illaoi has phenomenal total ad scaling so she can focus on building like a true bruiser with hp and defenses attached, and relies less on pure ad items. For Aatrox, he needs a better free steroid than his [nerfed] passive - One or more of higher TOTAL ad ratios, better ways to sustain health than every 3 attacks (since Riot doesn't like him attacking at blitz speeds), better ways to deal damage than every 3 attacks, better attack speed given when he ults, or a reworked ult that fits with his lore of inspiring allies.

The Voids Call2 votes

I think the issue with attrox is that his whole kit is pretty much reactive. That's in a game which almost every champion is being pushed into a proactive style of gameplay. The reason champions like yasuo, riven, lee sin, exc are as popular and as powerful as they are, is because they are just proactive fighters. They set the pace of a 1v1 fight. In a face off they almost always have to outplay themselves because mechanically the have more than most every champion.

Coming from an actually fighter, setting the tempo in a fight is probably the most important thing you can do to not lose a fight. If you're in control of the tempo, you can engage or disengage at will. You have more chances to fix your mistakes, and more to capitalize on the opponent's. Aatrox lacks these mechanics in a meaningful way.

If someone loses to you on a champion like Aatrox, it's because they are on a numerically weaker champion, or because they underestimate your potential after having expended and forfeited their control on the tempo a fight. The high tempo control of the previously listed champions is mostly due to their low CDs and high mobility, while also having a decent level of CC (actually about as much as attrox for a single round of abilities ironically).

Naag One1 votes

wtf OP

u wrote 1000 ranked games to show u know your stuff, made claims about riot's inability to fix their balance and stuff

then in your own thread you were shown the light and you found a build u find a bit success with

average board user, makes "i know it all" claims when in reality knows so little kek

OlafRagnarson4 votes

Ya know, I was just a little slow to warm up to the new items. But I still stand by what a I said. He has gotten the short end of the stick in terms of stats because of his passive revive and sustain. He doesn't compare in terms of CC and cooldowns and scaling compared to other top laners. End of story.

GigaPube1 votes

HNNNGGGG BLACK CLEAVER ON AATROX, WHY GOD WHY

Rıots Bad Client2 votes

The only reason I can see why is because Aatrox is extremely squishy, so the built in health so he can at least live for a little more than usual. (I'm not a Aatrox main, I'm just guessing.)

Imo, Aatrox can't build tank because he'll do no damage, but he can't build attack because he'll die quickly, but he ALSO can't build hybrid because he'll be squishy and do no damage.

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