Still no Sandbox mode Riot?

OlafRagnarson·Feb 1, 2016·12 votes·1,006 views

What's the matter? Are you scared people will be able to get good data and insight and move up in rank faster with champions, thereby not struggling as much in lower elo and buying more champions?

I can't think of any other reason other than they feel it will affect their bottom line.

And frankly, that literally make me sick to my stomach. I know how much Riot hauls in every years. You make tons of money and you should. So when you have customers like that supporting you, you are supposed to add value to their money.

Value added benefits. More bang for my buck. More reason to play LOL than other game.

Its almost like the people running Riot have never ran a business before this!

17 Comments

FrankerXFeb 1, 20164 votes

dude its riot games! players ask since season 1 for a way to record their games without downloading extra shit. riot still doesnt care. it either takes them years to bring out ideas that the community liked since years, or they never give a fuck.

DrCyanideFeb 1, 20163 votes

Honestly, I think the big scare for them, the main reason why they don't make a sandbox mode, is Flash.

Flash an insanely versatile spell, used for engage, disengage, going over walls, going over abilities, used mid ability to minimize warning, etc. They've created a game so dependent on Flash that it's taken by almost every champion in every single game.

Riot claims the way they want players to learn the game by playing it, but Flash is the exception. You can't recklessly use Flash in a game, you'd need to practice it in a sandbox mode. And since you use it on every champion, you get the most bang for your buck if you do practice it instead of anything else. And once the expectation is set that players will know which walls to Flash over, what abilities to Flash over, what abilities to Flash and cast, then it might well become a requirement to get above Silver.

Still, it's a shame that we can't have nice things because of one over used nice thing.

AngelFrost00Feb 1, 20162 votes

They are scared if they pushed something too hard they loose people but like what on earth.... they have half billion dollars and they say "We don't have the #### to do this"

Mister SupportFeb 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What's the matter? Are you scared people will be able to get good data and insight and move up in rank faster with champions, thereby not struggling as much in lower elo and buying more champions?

I can't think of any other reason other than they feel it will affect their bottom line.

Yes...because using the IP earned by playing the game to buy champions is what makes all of Riot's money... Not Esports or skins.

OlafRagnarsonFeb 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadCast Fenris,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oPHI17IL,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-02-01T17:18:12.476+0000)

Yes...because using the IP earned by playing the game to buy champions is what makes all of Riot's money... Not Esports or skins.

Skins come from buying more champions.

Mister SupportFeb 1, 20161 votes

Not all people will get a skin just because they own a champion, usually just for the ones they like. Your point is that they would go to different champions because they take too long to learn or enjoy properly. Which if someone bought a skin for a champion just for the sake of having a skin for that champ, that is the player's fault, not riot trying to be greedy.

Left Hook LarryFeb 2, 20161 votes

You know how many people buy champs with rp? A shit ton

Mister SupportFeb 2, 20161 votes

What makes you think that? Why would so many people use money to purchase champions when they have the option to gain them from playing the game? I'd like to know where you get the idea that a large number of players will purchase champions with RP.

Again, this would be a fault to the player, not Riot. If you and other people will complain that you spend too much money on this game which IS free to enjoy and play, and try to make a demand for new features assuming it is a possibility which can just pop up out of nowhere, it is your own fault for having spent that money at your choice, not Riot's. The company does not owe you anything.

And you can't be 100% sure if they do have the resources to make that on top of everything else they make/do. There is constant balancing, analyzing of games, bug searching/fixing, player support, marketing, merchandising, social media work, Pro-scene work (such as writing scripts, making videos, setting up stages, purchasing and testing equipment to be used, etc.) champion designing (it has been stated there will be multiple champions worked on at once, exact number unknown), skins team, play testing for potential future changes, graphic design, music team (every champion, map, event, log in screen, etc gets its own music), voice acting, lore creation, event formulation, and so on.

Riot has a lot on its plate which is equal to or more than what most other game companies will work on (mostly because of the insanely higher quality put forth for all Pro-scene type things, which include paying players and teams by the way).

Left Hook LarryFeb 4, 20161 votes

Why would so many people use money to purchase champions when they have the option to gain them from playing the game? I'd like to know where you get the idea that a large number of players will purchase champions with RP.

Maybe because not everyone has the time to grind out ip by playing a shit ton of games per week just to buy champs. I know many people who buy champs with RP because they can play 1/2 games a day max and can't spend a lot of time grinding.

The company does not owe you anything.

The game may be f2p, but it is common knowledge that if people enjoy the game that they will spend money on it. Why do you think League is one of the biggest games in terms of revenue? If Riot uses this mentality they will have a hard time keeping the community happy and the game will die out.

There is constant balancing, analyzing of games, bug searching/fixing, player support, marketing, merchandising, social media work, Pro-scene work (such as writing scripts, making videos, setting up stages, purchasing and testing equipment to be used, etc.) champion designing (it has been stated there will be multiple champions worked on at once, exact number unknown), skins team, play testing for potential future changes, graphic design, music team (every champion, map, event, log in screen, etc gets its own music), voice acting, lore creation, event formulation, and so on.

You do realize that there a different departments who work on all of those things individually, right? It's not just one single team that does all of those things and they just don't have the time. League is the biggest game right now. There's no way in hell that they can use that shitty excuse.

Riot has a lot on its plate

The thing is, Riot has never said anything about this being the reason for why they won't come out with a sandbox mode. Their excuse was that a sandbox mode will increase toxicity, which is complete BS.

MEMEME670Feb 1, 20162 votes

You should probably read up on this stuff before you make a post.

The reason they don't do it is because they don't want it to be an expectation for players to spend x hours in sandbox mode before moving to ranked, which it likely would become if one were to exist.

OlafRagnarsonFeb 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You should probably read up on this stuff before you make a post.

The reason they don't do it is because they don't want it to be an expectation for players to spend x hours in sandbox mode before moving to ranked, which it likely would become if one were to exist.

Gee, can they let the players decide? If thats really the only reason, then that is just more of Riot dictating how they want the game played. You NEED to wait to till 20 to vote for surrender, YOU MUST play the game and not practice things in sandbox

MEMEME670Feb 2, 20161 votes

It's Riots game, they'll dictate how they want it played, yes. They don't want players to have to deal with stupid gameplay patterns like old Nidalee or AP Yi, so they nerf them.

But in truth, this is nowhere near that. Riot doesn't want people being harassed to 'go back to sandbox mode' whenever they fail a flash, or something similar. You and I both know that would happen very often if one were to exist, and people feeling like they need to spend hours in sandbox mode before they can play the game would be a horrible thing for them to have to go through, so I can see why they don't want a sandbox mode.

GRVet3ran0sSFeb 1, 20161 votes

Atleast they ban the flamers.

ZantumallFeb 1, 20161 votes

Firstly, Riot is a for-profit corporation. Literally every decision they make is motivated by profit. This is not greed, it's how corporations work. Expecting a company to give you what you want for free if it doesn't help their bottom line is ridiculous. Try going to Walmart and saying "I've spent money here before, so I demand you give me a free gift card or I'm never shopping here again" and see how it goes over.

Secondly, you seem to think that it would be easy for them to just add a sandbox mode. You do realize that they'd have to actually program one in, right? If it were going to be at all useful it'd have to have a huge variety of level/gold/item controls all of which would have to be added to the game completely from scratch. Riot has a limited amount of man-hours to spend on development. Adding sandbox mode would mean an enormous tradeoff in things like regularity of balance patches, new champion releases/updates, new skins, etc.

OlafRagnarsonFeb 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Firstly, Riot is a for-profit corporation. Literally every decision they make is motivated by profit. This is not greed, it's how corporations work. Expecting a company to give you what you want for free if it doesn't help their bottom line is ridiculous. Try going to Walmart and saying "I've spent money here before, so I demand you give me a free gift card or I'm never shopping here again" and see how it goes over.

Secondly, you seem to think that it would be easy for them to just add a sandbox mode. You do realize that they'd have to actually program one in, right? If it were going to be at all useful it'd have to have a huge variety of level/gold/item controls all of which would have to be added to the game completely from scratch. Riot has a limited amount of man-hours to spend on development. Adding sandbox mode would mean an enormous tradeoff in things like regularity of balance patches, new champion releases/updates, new skins, etc.

Dude, knock it off, they are getting close to a Billion a year. They could easily have more manpower.

Its not about asking for free stuff. Please READ the OP before you start in with your knee jerk reaction attacking me because you think I'm bashing corporations.

Isn't it nice how as things progress, companies offer more? Don't you like the fact that, for the same price or less, you get WAY more data and minutes in your cell phone plan than you did even just 5 years ago? Yes, clearly giving more to customers is retarded.

IbgNovPfGkFeb 2, 20161 votes

Firstly, i play mostly dota, hence i know every nook an cranny about the game.

And boooooy you are so wrong on so many levels.

Last time i checked, Valve wasn't a charity either, they still manage to deliver on all what Riot promises, because the populace demands it, and all without asking for a single penny from their players, unless they really want to spend that cash. Just to put it in perspective, Valve currently has ~330 employees of which an amazing ~30 actually actively work on dota.

Sanboxmode:

Been in dota since day one, literally with anything you want and bots for your team, the opponent team, your grandma and your friendly neighbour, with resets on abilities, wtf mode and whatnot. And i can tell you that even more than half of the active populace even of higher ranked players (that's platinum equivalent and above) don't fing use it unless they just want to troll without ruining it for actual people. Those that use it, practice it for their own mechanical training and interactions they feel insecure with, or just use it to try out changes from patches without just jumping into a game, some use it to check itembuild interactions aswell. And guess what, nobody ever fing expects it. I have in my 5k hrs of dota not encountered a single person that ever requested someone who was screwing up, to try it in the sandbox mode, so that's complete bull** just by experience. And you know what that bad wolf Sandbox mode is the actual best thing in the world for? Figuring out where the hell a bug is coming from, and actually finding the string of actions that lead to it. Bug Fixing in dota even of huge, major gamebraking bugs, takes not more than a few hours during Seattle offhours.

Replays:

Another thing there from forever and being constantly improved. Replays were possible when heroes were added 2 at a time with a spectator mode that had instant replays to jump in and replay moments from competitive games yourself, live rewinds, selection of cameraperspective, casters, directed, your own, hell you call it. And all of that was developed while organizing tournaments, balancing and adding heroes to the game. We are not even gonna talk about that poor excuse for a spectator mode that we have in League.

Client:

I'm amazed that League still uses Adobe Air. Btw dota had multiple client revamps during beta, with major changes and they managed to make a completely new client after that aswell that introduced customgames (communitymade, Valvemade, made by your granny, you get the gist) all done from scratch during the still basic development of the game. But Adobe Air is gonna disappear sometime in 2016,maybe or not, the makeover might suffer the same fate as Sandbox, considering Riot's history of delivering....

The ONLY, literally the ONLY reason Riot isn't doing those things? You can't milk the player with them for the highest possible amount of money. It's the only reason, whatever excuse they pull out of their backside, beautifully written by their PR-Office for sure, is just bull***. Why make a communitydemanded feature that is absolutely necessary in a competitive game, when you can't make money off it? Chromas are waaaaay more important, wouldn't you agree?

I have to hand to Riot that they don't outsource their skins like Valve does (once again almost 90% communitycontribution, with some of them making a living off it), but seriously they have more than 3 times the employees, i think you might find a team of 30 in there that can actually do that stuff. And the quality of the skins, boy you should see some of the most recent once (source 2 really delivers, holy cow).

Why do you think dota players spend so much money that 25% off a, crowdfunded Pricepool is 18.4 mill (Valve pocketed the other 75%)? Because the company builds a trust based relationship with the customer. We don't get screwed over, we get the game for free (except our soul) and occasionally we get randomly tossed a free skin (yes even those 50$ ones) and you know what happens? You feel like you should spend cash on that game that has given you countless hours of fun and joy with your friends and strangers, so you can support the company that makes it. This is F2P my friend, done at its finest.

What Riot posted? Excuses, and very poor ones, since they can always just look over at their competitors that shovel that money aswell and take some good hints from them that have proven to work perfectly.

Left Hook LarryFeb 2, 20161 votes

The only reason they will never introduce sandbox mode is simply because they have nothing to gain from it. It will require a lot of work for nothing in return. It won't sell skins. It won't sell champs. It won't promote anything LCS related. It wont draw or keep people in the game more. No point for them