Yet another set of nerfs to Camille, yet another heavy nerf to her Ult. So can we at least have her Ult not go on as long of a CD if it gets "dodged"? For such a key part of her kit, and overall role as a diver, just having it negated for full cost is pretty bullshit, especially because it has one of the most telegraphed activation animation in the game.
Eedat3 votesYet another set of nerfs to Camille
She deserved every single one of them. She's just now breaking even at 50% win rate. Stop trying to make it sound like they destroyed her or she didn't need them. She was ridiculously overtuned at launch
JavelinJoe1 votesShow me where you see her with a +50% win rate. As far as I see, she has been sub 50% since patch 7.3 when her full kit was nerfed. She has not received a single buff since release, not even a re-balance where something was weakened while something else was strengthened. Every single time it is either a bug fix or a nerf.
Eedat1 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/Camille/Top
49.86%
#WHEW A WHOLE 0.14% BELOW 50%!
Better call it "sub 50%" so my argument sounds better!
The rest of us are going to call it practically dead even 50%
JavelinJoe1 votesYou realize that this is at the highest possible levels of play visible on that sight. Everything else below it is even lower. She is no better than Ashe, Thresh, and Oriana in terms of win rate and heavily out done in terms of play rate. Yet none of those champs are receiving heavy nerfs. But because a few months ago she was broken means that until she is unplayable she is in need of nerfs? Also this is high elo play. Where the team is working with each other, often using voice chat. SO coordinated plays and dives are pretty common, which can make up for her weaknesses to a point.
Also this is before these nerfs, I would be shocked if her win rate and maybe her play rate did not drop.
Eedat1 votesSince when is Platinum "the highest possible levels of play" xD
JavelinJoe1 voteshighest possible levels of play visible on that sight
Levels, as in more than 1 level. And that is the highest grouping that they have, "Platinum+". It means everything from Diamond 5 through Challenger rank 1, including pro play.
Eedat1 votesYeah it'll throw those 200 Challenger games into the sea of 40,000 platinum games and then you'll tell me that stat actually reflects Challenger xD
Those stats are straight up Platinum with a minor amount of low Diamond. Anything higher than that doesn't get nearly enough of a sample size to be relevent.
Keep trying though. You might be able to fool a ten year old with that garbage
JavelinJoe1 votesI can agree that her initial form was awful. Completely unbalanced and way too strong. But after her entire kit nerf a few patches back, she seemed to be in an acceptable spot. And now they have again significantly cut her ability to fight and her ability to sustain reasonably. I would have at least lowered her heal amount from minions and monsters first, to test it out to see if it makes a difference, before removing the function completely.
At rank 1 ult, Zhonyas lasts the full duration. Now I agree, rushing Zhonyas is not typical on most champions. However, by rank 2 ult (level 11) it is common for some Mages to have it. And then she has just a .75s window of effectiveness to get as many AA off as possible, likely 3, maybe, if she rapid fires her Q thus negating the bonus true damage in the process. Again, this does not make for a very effective tool to pick off select targets if said target can just simply ignore almost if not all of the threat until level 16 when her ult is rank 3 and 4 seconds long.
koshkyra1 votesShe deserved every single one of them. She's just now breaking even at 50% win rate. Stop trying to make it sound like they destroyed her or she didn't need them. She was ridiculously overtuned at launch
She is absolutely destroyed. If you think otherwise you're a salty toplaner who can't fight her. Her ultimate is now half of what it was, and she cannot heal herself anymore unless she hits a champion. And we all know that won't happen, since it has like a full second before it actually goes off.
Eunson4 votes{quoted} she cannot heal herself anymore unless she hits a champion.
Game breaking!!! You need to land your abilities for them to work now!
JavelinJoe1 votesIt means that she cant be played as a Jungler any more because she can no longer sustain through it. Also she no longer benefits as much from a more tankier (health based) build. She basically has to go 
and not 
Eunson3 votesYou can easily jungle as Camille... You can jungle as any character if you know how to play jungle...Maybe you need to achieve gold first.
koshkyra2 votesshe cannot heal herself anymore unless she hits a champion.
Game breaking!!! I quoted one section of this response and cut out the rest of it so the guy seems like he's wrong even though he has a legitimate point!
You're a moron, and we both know that you're pulling shit here.
When did I say that the ability didn't work? I said it didn't HEAL YOU. I did not say it didn't do damage. I did not say it didn't slow them. And for that matter, I did not say it did nothing.
Eunson2 votesIf you're going to quote me can you not add things I didn't say to my quote? lol
Eedat3 votesabsolutely destroyed
Hilarious.
She has an even 50% win rate now. You're just salty That she isn't disgustingly broken anymore. She was more broken than release Ekko.
But tell me more about how some unranked mid main knows literally anything about top lane. Your opinion is literally meaningless. Tell me again how giving straight up broken champs nerfs is "absolutely destroying" them
koshkyra1 votesHilarious.
She has an even 50% win rate now. You're just salty That she isn't disgustingly broken anymore. She was more broken than release Ekko.
But tell me more about how some unranked mid main knows literally anything about top lane. Your opinion is literally meaningless. Tell me again how giving straight up broken champs nerfs is "absolutely destroying" them
Didn't even play her until she was nerfed three times. So no, I don't want her to be "disgustingly broken". I am not even close to a mid main. I am a support main, so you're absolutely wrong there. You're obviously salty because you said my opinion is "absolutely meaningless", we both know that Camille is balanced, and you really shouldn't message back at the risk of you sounding like a raging brat.
Eedat2 votesYeah an unranked support main is definitely the go-to source for toplane balance. You proved how little you know when you pulled:
She is absolutely destroyed
Tell me, how did she go from "absolutely destroyed" to "Camille is balanced" in a single comment? So quick to eat your words?
koshkyra1 votesYeah an unranked support main is definitely the go-to source for toplane balance. You proved how little you know when you pulled:
Tell me, how did she go from "absolutely destroyed" to "Camille is balanced" in a single comment? So quick to eat your words?
I'm saying you were wrong, idiot. I'm not saying that being a support main makes it any better. I said you were wrong and you're also a moron but that's for another time.
Being unbalanced is being overpowered. Being absolutely destroyed is being underpowered.
I'll say that again.
Being unbalanced is being overpowered.
A balanced champ is anyone who is not overpowered. They have balance in their kit, meaning everything they have does not go to an extreme making them incredibly busted.
If you want to be wrong yet again then I invite you to Please respond.
Eedat2 votesTrying to regurgitate your eaten words now?
You got caught in your lies my friend. Best to just slink away and try again in a different thread.
She is absolutely destroyed
we both know that Camille is balanced
A balanced champ is anyone who is not overpowered
Top kek dude keep it coming. I've seen some bad arguments on these boards, but you're really gunning for that top spot.
Then you hit me with the "please respond" hue hue hue
koshkyra1 votesTrying to regurgitate your eaten words now?
You got caught in your lies my friend. Best to just slink away and try again in a different thread.
Top kek dude keep it coming. I've seen some bad arguments on these boards, but you're really gunning for that top spot.
Then you hit me with the "please respond" hue hue hue
Respond or don't respond, I don't give a shit.
I know your username and as soon as I see it I'm ignoring it. Screw off.
Eedat2 votesGonna pull some "I'm so high and mighty" BS after throwing insults and not expecting anything back? Just for clarity, did you expect the other person to treat you with any respect once you pulled the "just a salty toplaner" and called me an idiot? Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but talk to people disrespecfully and you'll get it right back ;)
Do you think this is how it's going to work irl too? Lol
Keep your "bigger man" bullshit to yourself. Nobody buys it.
Float away now, you special little snowflake
chipndip11 votesA balanced champ is a champ that isn't too strong OR too weak...
dunder kill1 votesWeird because in reality she's completely fine
dunder kill3 votesI mean using this logic then shouldn't Zed get CD back if someone Zhonyas his ult? Or if someone QQS's Malz's ult? Etc.
JavelinJoe1 votesZed already had QSS nerfed because of his ult, in case you forgot.
dunder kill5 votesHey guess what? You already can't QSS Camille's ult lol.
Zed's ult and Camille's ult have the exact same interaction with QSS. They also have the exact same interactions with untargetability. So why do you want it to work one way but complain about the other?
JavelinJoe1 votesZeds ult is a point and click instant activation, Camille's ult is point and click and a delayed activation. so no, they do not have the same interaction with untargetability. You can dodge Zeds mark damage proc, but you cant dodge both the activation and damage because of the 3 second delay. Camille just gets stopped completely for full cost. The AOE cage part and the bonus AA damage do not get applied at all.
dunder kill3 votesZeds ult is a point and click instant activation
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahahahaha
: Zed vanishes for 0.75 seconds while dashing behind the target enemy champion, marking them on arrival
Good one man
JavelinJoe1 votesYou forgot the "and marks them" part. That still procs after 3 seconds. So either he appears behind them and then they become untargetable to dodge the damage or they prevent the mark but open themselves up to be combo'd once it is over.
Also, this is part of it:
Death Mark is canceled, goes on a reduced cooldown, and Zed reappears at the cast location if the target dies before he reaches them to apply the mark.
dunder kill6 votesSince you are completely oblivious to how Zed works, If Zed ults a target and they pop Zhonyas in that .75 second window, they do NOT get marked and it still consumes the full Cooldown on Zed's Ult.
You know, exactly like Camille's ult.
You really should understand the absolute basics of a champion before trying to do a comparison
Paquay1 votesAs someone who plays a lot of Zilean, I feel like if I ult someone and they don't die I should get my ult back... and then it should stack a second charge as compensation.
/sarcasm
edit thinking about it, it bothers me so much when I ult an ally and they are at like 2% ho, but then decide to flash away and never come back. Like, go fucking die so you can rez with nearly full hp!
Eunson2 votesWhy should a character be rewarded for being outplayed?
JavelinJoe1 votesWhy was QSS nerfed so Zed's Ult could not be dropped?
Eunson5 votesHuh? These aren't even related.
JavelinJoe2 votesIt is the same argument. Using QSS to drop Zed's Ult was technically outplaying Zed. So they removed the part where it could cleanse non-hard CC debufs, 99% just for this reason alone. In other words, they rewarded Zed by removing a counter to his Ult because it was such a key part of his kit.
Since Camille's ult in not cleanse-able, but is dodge-able, shouldn't some "reward" be given to her for being "outplayed" (and lets be honest, some CD time removed is no where near what Zed got), because it is such a key feature to her kit?
Eunson1 votesSo you'd be fine if QSS removed Zed's ult and removed Camille's ult?
JavelinJoe1 votesNot at all. For 1 it would add back another weakness to those champions outside of champion abilities, and that is likely the last thing they need.
I just think that if Camille is built almost entirely around diving back lines, providing disruption and making picks for herself and her team to act upon, then if all that risk is simply wasted because her target pressed a button while she was in the almost excessively telegraphed animation, that she should at least get something in return. I never said it had to be a full refund or anything. If I had to give a value I would say maybe half mana and CD refunded would be fair, and at absolute best maybe have only a few seconds long CD until she can recast.
D3m37r11 votesHow does one dodge a point and click ability?
JavelinJoe2 votesBy becoming untargitable mid cast, such as with Zhonyas, an ability, or death. An example would be Vlad's pool.
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesYou're assuming Camille's being played more at mid than top because......?
JavelinJoe1 votesWhere have I ever stated a specific lane?
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesThen name me those who're actually Zhonya-viable or has an Untargetable kit in top lane, aside Vlad & Fizz.
JavelinJoe1 votes
is a great one for Zhonyas. And while not on command, 
can go untargetable.
But why are you so fixated with the top lane? Camille can go elsewhere on roams and after laning phase you know. She can also TP bot lane or help her Jungler counter jungle or fight at dragon. She is very mobile, so why are you trying to limit her effectiveness to just the top lane?
BeatzBoyFTW1 votesKennen is okay. Kled's case is too situational since he requires to unmount for that brief untargetability.
The frustration with her ult is mainly due to the fact that she can easily lock down most tanks with her ult against the likes of Sion or Maokai at top lane itself. And if she were to TP bot, I don't see any ADCs having the ability to be Zhonya-viable or has Untargetaility, exception of Vayne since her ult can make her Invisible. TP to mid instead, most mages with Zhonya in-built may have been a good counter, but why choose him instead of the squishy ADC or the helpless tanks?
Her weakness window in her ult is seriously small, as your stated weakness is nothing more than just straight up "counter-picking". If you didn't pick a champion who's neither Zhonya-viable nor an Untargatable kit, you're saying that he deserved to get rekt by Camille. Hence, why her ult duration needs to be cut down for early game.
xJLx MCHammer1 votesShould Jarvan get refunded also? or any other champion that has an ult similar to Cam?
JavelinJoe1 votesNo, he actually generates terrain regardless of if his ult is dodged, so either way he has made a significant impact in the fight for both sides.
chipndip11 votesBut Camille does get benefit either way, because SHE'S untargetable during the jump. So if her target "dodges" the landing, she still gets untargetability during that jumping animation.
How useful that is varies, but you gain something.
JavelinJoe1 votesIf it was always useful I would not have any complaints about dodges, but since in a 1v1, for example, where it would have no use, I think only a partial refund would be fair. The thing about J4's ult is that regardless of its effect on the target, it generates effective terrain which other champions can interact with, an example being Vayne's E. If her ult still applied the zone, again I would not have an issue, but it does not. It simply takes your mana and goes on full CD once you land.
Colgate Gator1 votesCan I get a mana and CD refund on my character's abilities if I whiff them?
No? Okay.
JavelinJoe1 votesIt is not a wiff. A wiff is only for skill shots where you miss the target. This is a targeted ability that is completely negated. Usually in these cases you get a refund of some amount, the ability only gets a small CD of like 5 seconds (Like with Cait and Garen) and/or the ability still partially goes off (such as with J4).