Most of Riot's champion reworks have been failures

Nausicäa ··6 votes·3,300 views

And worse yet they very rarely do follow up changes to fix their problems or make them viable.

There are 4 reworks which i would consider to be successful.

**Rengar **- Hes competitively viable, good in solo queue and less overbearing than his original incarnation. Vikor - An overall improvement to a champion that had serious flaws, might need a couple tweaks. Skarner - Many people dislike this rework but i find him to be pretty strong and its an improvement over his previous kit **Xerath **- Somewhat controversial but i think hes a much better champion, has seen competitive play.

Now the failures

Karma - Ya old Karma was probably bad too, but new Karma isnt much better. Shes never played, and is generally just weak. She has received no follow up changes to speak of. She was supposed to be a mid laner i think, but is just outclasses in that role.

**Heimerdinger **- Overall weak champion, will never be competitively viable. His kit is just bad and doesnt work. His turrets are abusive in the early game and far too weak in the late game where they pretty much instantly die. His W is ok but the cooldown is too long, his E is extremely difficult to land and unreliable.

**Nidalee **- This rework is all around bad. Pretty much destroyed AP Nidalee, and made AD Nidalee overpowered. It shifted a huge portion of AP Nidalees damage in melee cougar form, problem being that if you go into melee range as a squishy AP champion you will instantly die. Her damage in human form is lackluster

**Master Yi **- Relies on Feral Flare to be viable. Basically didnt change anything except to give him absurd amounts of true damage. He is still a champion who has no counterplay and is extremely abusive late game if fed where he can basically instantly kill carries with no ability to react. Can easily solo Dragon at lvl 6 and solo Baron super early in the game. If he doesnt get fed on the other hand hes basically useless and liability to the team

**Sejuani **- Ive seen Riot employee's insist that shes a good champion or isnt bad, but this is simply false. Her clear speed sucks, her damage sucks and her mana costs are absurd. She goes oom clearing one camp. She has great CC sure, but it doesnt make up for all her weaknesses.

Sion - Might be too early to tell, im sure many people love him and would disagree, but quite simply his kit is too unreliable to be good. Hes probably pretty good at low elo, however his abilities are far too easy to dodge, particularly his Q. You will pretty much never land a Q agaisnt a decent player and his ultimate is way too hard to control and direct.

**Olaf **- Dont have too much to say about Olaf but hes pretty weak overall.

Soraka - I hate this rework, i think its terrible. Her heal range is extremely low and she loses her own health to heal basically making her a free and easy kill in any fights. She has pretty much no peel or cc for her team or adc. Edit **Cassiopeia **- Not super informed and ive only played her a couple times but as far as i can tell the main issue with her is that they significantly reduced the damage on her poisons and made her early- mid game weaker, while only making her strong in super late game where she can get her passive stacks up. Stacking takes too long/ is too difficult to do.

32 Comments

AnonTwo3 votes

My main problem with reworks is more it's not done cautiously enough. It should only be done as a last resort because at the end of the day...

The kit should be the ONE thing you can promise to people buying into a champ

The stats change? that's normal...The look changes? Well don't overdo it, but understandably champions get old.

But the very design that people picked the champion for? Their Gameplay? Their synergy? Their strengths and weaknesses? The very buying point of the champion? That should seriously be a last resort and yet it feels like Rioters are too freely throwing their hands in the air and going "I GIVE UP! REWORK IT!"

It's just...it becomes a bit more discouraging these days to buy when you know that not a single thing you're buying is promised to stay the same, not even the gameplay you picked the champion for.

Worse yet given refunds are gone now.

And to emphasize: I do not mean stats. Those come and go. I mean the very way the champ plays shouldn't be so freely changed at the drop of a hat.

SouL1ess2 votes

Riot's reworks are less "reworking" but more "making a new champion" for most reworks.

See Karma relaunch. You cannot POSSIBLY call that a rework, literally everything changed about her. Riot released a new champion but absolutely refuses to admit it.

Skarner, Tryndamere, Sona - there are RELATIVELY MORE like reworks. However Sion? Remade, relaunched. If the champion gets a complete change that affects playstyle you should call that a relaunch, not simply a rework.

AnonTwo1 votes

Riot's reworks are less "reworking" but more "making a new champion" for most reworks.

See Karma relaunch. You cannot POSSIBLY call that a rework, literally everything changed about her. Riot released a new champion but absolutely refuses to admit it.

Skarner, Tryndamere, Sona - there are RELATIVELY MORE like reworks. However Sion? Remade, relaunched. If the champion gets a complete change that affects playstyle you should call that a relaunch, not simply a rework.

Yeahhh....pretty much.

It's used more often as a 'nice' way of deleting champions from the game....

Dr Clueless PhD1 votes

If you want a promise of something not changing, don't buy into a game that does content patches like this. It's that simple. It sucks that something you like got changed, but you know what? They're the game designers, not you. If they think a change is for the best, they can and will make it.

AnonTwo1 votes

If you want a promise of something not changing, don't buy into a game that does content patches like this. It's that simple. It sucks that something you like got changed, but you know what? They're the game designers, not you. If they think a change is for the best, they can and will make it.

No. That's unacceptable.

Stats can change, looks can change.

THE ACTUAL GAMEPLAY OF THE GAME!?

Should be held to a higher standard. Changing how someone plays a champion is a last resort.

Yes, things change. But there's supposed to be a limit to that. The line should be drawn where it can still be seen as the same game. What do you think people would do if they woke up one day and all the champions played like Dota ones? Or smite? or adventure party battle?

Yeah, it'd still be the same game, but those champions are a little bit different from the ones we play, don't you think?

This is my problem with the concept of changing kits at the drop of the hat. Something should be kept sacred, and if anything it should be the way champions are played. Not necessarily their strategies, but button A does effect A, not effect B, or C, or B, or turned into button B D E.

Dr Clueless PhD1 votes

If it's unacceptable for you, I have some bad news: Riot doesn't care, and this game isn't for you. NOTHING in League is sacred. Nothing. No aspect of lore, gameplay, or anything else is untouchable. It is all mutable when Riot decides to change it. If that bothers you, then you shouldn't be investing yourself into this game.

AnonTwo2 votes

If it's unacceptable for you, I have some bad news: Riot doesn't care, and this game isn't for you. NOTHING in League is sacred. Nothing. No aspect of lore, gameplay, or anything else is untouchable. It is all mutable when Riot decides to change it. If that bothers you, then you shouldn't be investing yourself into this game.

Great, Riot doesn't care.

Hence why i'm complaining that Riot doesn't care.

Why did you feel the need to tell me that again?

Dr Clueless PhD1 votes

Because you seem to be under the impression that your complaining can accomplish something, and I'm telling you to not waste the effort. There's no point trying to change a company when you can more simply find one that you already like and support them instead.

AnonTwo2 votes

Because you seem to be under the impression that your complaining can accomplish something, and I'm telling you to not waste the effort. There's no point trying to change a company when you can more simply find one that you already like and support them instead.

You seem to be new to forums.

And i already avoid spending for the most part anymore. There's also no good companies lately.

Raptamei3 votes

Agreed on Soraka, Riot talks a lot about the endgame fantasy but Soraka's endgame fantasy is that she kills herself faster. It even scales with max health and her passive steals her own armor and MR just to make doubly sure you can't possibly survive when you actually use your heal.

Apparently supports not called Thresh are not supposed to be fun or something.

SouL1ess2 votes

Soraka's live passive doesn't affect her AP, armor, or MR, as far as I know.

A different passive has been implemented in lieu of the proposed passive.

2000boxes2 votes

they put ap scaling on her cougar form ablities now watch worlds and you will atleast 1 nidalee game with ap nidalee top

Emmy Cha0s1 votes

Worlds uses a much older patch, from over 2 months ago. Hence why you see Maokai's ult having no time limit and Alistar banned out near every game, etc.

Nausicäa 1 votes

they put ap scaling on her cougar form ablities now watch worlds and you will atleast 1 nidalee game with ap nidalee top

I believe it was SSW who used it and theres 3 things to remember.

  1. SSW is the best team and completely outclasses the other teams. They could afford to basically pick w/e in one role and still win.

  2. Nidalee was supposed to be a mid laner, a lane in which she is now garbage.

  3. One pick doesnt mean much.

Emmy Cha0s1 votes

You're missing Cassiopeia and Sona. Both of these were reworked more recently than that whole list, save Soraka and Sion.

Nausicäa 1 votes

You're missing Cassiopeia and Sona. Both of these were reworked more recently than that whole list, save Soraka and Sion.

I skipped those because i dont have an informed opinion on them. I know the Cass rework is generally considered to be bad and Sona doesnt seem bad but isnt really played either.

Sailor Mint1 votes

You're missing the mark on quite a few. You're blending personal opinions and design philosophy and using 3rd party word of mouth to judge most of them. That's just terrible methodology.

Only true failed reworks would be current Cass, Lucian (pre-nerf) and Skarner's original rework. Karma is one of the more successful rework. Soraka will probably be discovered to be overpowered in organized play. Master Yi is a success in the sense that even his current state is less onboxious and stupid than old AP Yi.< The biggest complaint about the Sona rework is them breaking Arcade Sona's effects.

Pika3102 votes

Soraka will probably be discovered to be overpowered in organized play.

This exact statement has been repeated countless times about the Sona rework for over 16 weeks. Lo and behold, her pick-rate in worlds was next to nonexistent and her win-rate adds up to 0%. People still attempt to blindly and illogically defend the nerf that is this failed rework. At some point, such misplaced and uninformed optimism translates to blatantly having a negative attitude.

The biggest complaint about the Sona rework is them breaking Arcade Sona's effects.

This is the biggest complaint? I'll admit it is** A** complaint, maybe the biggest about her visual downgrade. However, complaints about the nerfs to her entire kit have been far louder and more persistent.

Sailor Mint1 votes

Her Q range got fixed and her already high soloQ win rate skyrocketed to 55%+. Her pick rate had nearly doubled since. She may be fotm at this rate.

She wasn't great on 4.14 (Worlds patch), but she's extremely strong since 4.17.

Pika3102 votes

Undoing the undocumented nerfs(plural) to her bolt range doesn't fix the increased CD, reduced bolt damage or reduced non-aura range AND damage. Then there's the rest of the nerfs to her entire kit...

I'm just gonna skip commenting on your propaganda and say, I hope you value your own words. Cause I'm gonna hold you to them and you better stick to them as well.

Sailor Mint1 votes

Your words may have had some weight if you didn't abandon the Sona ship well before her rework. I also question your ability to play her and properly judge her actual power, but that's getting slightly off topic.

Pika3101 votes

"Abandon" nothing, I switched my main role to ADC in Season 4. Switching positions is not an uncommon occurrence, yet you're attempting to propagandize it in an attempt to discredit me, like some sort of political attack add. Not to mention your libelous implications, you've lowered yourself to resorting to harassment and are intentionally creating conflict for your own gain.

SouL1ess1 votes

Karma suffered a relaunch, not a rework. You can say the relaunch is successful and that Riot designed another bland mage to balance, but a successful rework? Hell no.

Emmy Cha0s2 votes

I skipped those because i dont have an informed opinion on them. I know the Cass rework is generally considered to be bad and Sona doesnt seem bad but isnt really played either.

It's fair that you label Cass under the more dominating opinion, that should be enough information for just an opinion. Especially considering her pick-rate is next to non-existent.

Same for Sona, a rework is meant for champions to gain popularity and be viable. A low pick-rate is an inherent sign of in-viability and loss of popularity, which in-and-of-itself is informed enough to consider it a failure.

Sir Bulldog1 votes

I'm not too fond of the Soraka re-work but I would say the the worst one out of the list is Sion. Old sion was better. I think the problem is that Riot LITERALLY doesn't know their own champion. They thought he was a mage with an axe when he never was. I saw more people playing sion ad than i ever did ap. They change things based too much on what they see in high level and not enough with the broad majority of players. Most of the employees at Riot are younger than me. Maybe that's the problem. They are just barely out of college and don't know what logic is.

Marthian2 votes

The problem isn't age. A Mage with an axe is exactly how Sion was being played with success. I never saw Sion AD. And even AD sion wasn't perfect: free stun and his ult can be ridiculous sustain for his team.

Zirconium1 votes

I've made past comments on Soraka in particular.

By far the most useless support in the game right now, next to Taric.

Sailor Mint1 votes

Soraka with J4 is disgusting. Also, Taric/Graves is one the most well guarded secrets in this game.

Legostrike1 votes

Soraka is actually massively op. I can testify. Her q does more damage and can heal with very little cooldown. Her main problem is she's squishy

Sagee Prime1 votes

Nidalee's rework wasn't a completely failure and she also wasn't overpowered. She had a strong laning phase and strong split pushing and outside of that she offered next to nothing to her team other than weak utility and some single target damage that an AD carry could out do. She had a fair list of champions that could go even with her and a fair list of champions that countered her pretty hard too but she also dumpstered or went even with a fair amount of FOTM picks.

She was no more overpowered than a Tiger Udyr against melee's top. Too many people just never took the time to adapt to playing against her and instead insisted on complaining about it.

Her current stats from worlds: CHAMP % P&B WIN % W PICK BAN % PICK % BAN K+A/D K/D Nidalee 32.05% 1 12.50% 8 17 10.26% 21.79% 0.95 0.43

Note: Worlds was using a pre-nerf Nidalee patch so she was at full strength.

Don't even bring up pro players. This is a level playing field. Pros against Pros

Pre-rework AP Nidalee had to much of her damage in a skill that didn't allow much counterplay outside of dodging so she needed to change to make her more interactive. All of her base damage values and AP ratios received nerfs just so she could receive the Hunt mechanic, Magic Takedown with an AP ratio, and cougar at level 1. AD Nidalee does significantly less damage than pre-rework but had a cheesy early game and AP Nidalee has less siege potential with the added effect of popping like a balloon when she tries to use her cougar for damage in anything outside of a 1v1 because she is melee for most of her damage.

You can't expect her to go melee when she has no CC or durability which is why the oldest build path AD Nidalee was the most popular. AD Nidalee was always the first Nidalee not AP Nidalee. AP Nidalee was made famous by HotshotGG but it was never the first Nidalee and she was never made as a mid laner. She was meant to be a supportive DPS off tank in original conception and her original recommended items supported that. you don't get IE, trinity force, and Frozen heart on a dedicated mid laner or a passive that works with something rarely used mid lane(brush).

Xerathiel1 votes

xerath was stronger prerework ><

DanqDemacianBud1 votes

LMAO your opinions are shit. They do a perfect job reworking, especially from the inside out. You just bitch and moan about the champs that used to be op, and got a well deserved nerf. I can get op fed with any of the champs above, just as well as the rest. If you wanna bitch, go play a different game!

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