So you want to nerf Yasuo?

Skorch··2 votes·1,117 views

BEFORE DOWNVOTING: Instead of downvoting just put in the poll at the bottom that you hate Yasuo and at least read my section on recommended nerfs before you downvote, if you disagree with one of my misconceptions then i ask if you have looked at both the good AND the bads of the abilities as most people fail to do when judging balance. I ALSO CHALLENGE YOU to actually upvote this, as i would like to see more opinions in the bottom, if you hate Yasuo, don't downvote this. I would actually like to see opinions down there instead of getting to -25 immediatly and not having any votes in the poll if you just hate Yasuo

This is gonna be long as explaining an entire champion will be.

As anyone who has seen me post before you know i like talking about the lesser opinion on the boards, sometimes these are meant with success from the silent majority who sometimes look on the boards, but most are downvoted into oblivion.

Another point i like to make as this post is about Yasuo, as of right now i think he is very balanced now that his build is no longer tanky bruiser bs Yasuo. (Champion.gg lists his winrate [for all roles] as an 50.11%

But as Riot has made clear they are listening to the complaints about Yasuo on the boards as they are VERY LOUD and frankly annoying.

Before Riot does anything to him i want to remind you they are LOOKING at Yasuo, they didn't specify whether or they are going to change or even nerf him.

As someone who plays a fair amount of Yasuo when I can, I feel I can help with ideas on nerfing him and what is ACTUALLY the problem.

And finally before I begin PLEASE while a lot of these can be taken as opinion if i got something wrong (like build path or exact numbers) let me know in the comments as I didn't have time to look up the numbers as the whole thing took me around 1 and a half hours to write (oh god i looked at the time)

[Misconceptions]: 1.His Shield is way too strong AND resets on his ult: Yasuo's built in shield is basically a built in banshees for any ability, while later on in the game the shield can grow to a decent size you have to realize that it only lasts for ~1 second before disappearing, if you want to get rid of it in laning phase just auto him once and wait for it to disappear, mages have autos too. Also if an ability does say 500 Damage, and his shield is only 200 at that point in the game, 300 damage will still be done to Yasuo, so he isn't unpokable.

  1. His windwall is too OP: Yasuos windwall is simply a tool to avoid ADCs and dangerous CC from an enemy. or to protect his team for a small amount of time. What people dont say is that it is a 30-20 second cooldown. This means that if you are half decent you can bait it with your CC move, then wait for it to be back up as there are very few non ultimate abilities in the game you cant use multiple times before its back up.

  2. HE HAS INFINITE MOBILITY WHAT IS THIS: A lot of outplay champions have a mobility theme (Vayne, Riven, Lee Sin) but out of all of those Yasuo may have the least mobility out of all outplay based champions. His is dependant on minions and while does have a low cooldown between resets remember what its used for: Last hitting, engaging, and dodging. But if you use it for one you cant use it on the same minion again for a while. You also have to be in the right side of the minion to dash that distance. The way to beat this is simply by leading skill shots. For instance it has around a 0.2 second cooldown, meaning that if you shoot at where he is going to land itll hit him or he has to dash away to avoid getting hit, this means that with 1 ability you have removed 2 dashes from his kit, early game this actually causes a lot of issues.

  3. Shaco Syndrome: People can't seem to tell whether or not Yasuo is easy or not, or if hes too broken in the hands of a good player. Yasuo is surprisingly feast or famine and CAN be shut down an entire game unless he really gets to cowering and farming. The main issue is when no one who doesnt play yasuo actually knows whether or not hes easy or hard or always too strong. What i can say is backed up by Champion.gg statistics at least in the middle lane is that you need 50+ games to get a positive winrate out of him. so the answer is Yes Yasuo is hard, so why is his winrate so close to 50%, well this is because the people who play yasuo a lot of the time are dedicated mains or at least players of yasuo. So to put simply he is a hard champion with many players that play A LOT of him. He most likely has the biggest following in the game

  4. Yasuo mains are Toxic: This just isnt true, While outplay based champs usually tend to have toxicity in them as they DO require more skill than others to use well, it is an unfair statement to generalize people. There are also many toxic Malphite mains but when they are toxic its the player, but when Yasuo is Toxic its the champion's fanbase. Dont generalize kids.

[Basic Facts of Yasuo]: Why is his play rate so high if many people have to play a lot of games to get a positive winrate? His play rate is high simply because outplay based champions (while can be infuriating to fight if good) ARE FUN, league of legends is a game after all. Yasuo and other outplay based kits are meant to really put your skill to avoid and capitalize on situations to the test, and if they are too strong this gets easier.

Why is his ban rate so high if hes a difficult champion: People don't like outplay champions, Their goal is to be as flashy and possible while still wining a fight. People are fine with say Brand vs Xerath as it is 2 champions whose goal is to poke their enemy with abilities until they can combo them and kill them. While Yasuo vs Xerath (while usually called Yasuo trying to not lose and Xerath cowering hoping to not die) Is more of Yasuo finding an opportunity when Xeraths abilites are down to capitalize and damage him. Its different and invokes a different playstyle where it is usually considered that Yasuo is always on the offensive and his opponent on the defensive instead of an even amount as in the Brand vs Xerath example. This is just a false understanding of how Yasuo fights and how Offense and Defense work.

[Yasuo's Favorite Items]: I hear people worrying about say CDR on yasuo as that would break his W and R but don't worry Yasuo DOES NOT build almost ANY CDR items item 3031 and item 3046 or item 3087 are a must, Yasuo enjoys Lifesteal so will often build item 3072 For Boots item 3006 (for q cooldown[Yasuos q cooldown scales on attack speed] and attack speed is always nice) or item 3111 (if you want that tenacity) If you want some health or utility yasuo goes item 3022 or item 3053 or item 3742 Or if you REALLY want to kill them dead get item 3046/item 3087 (whichever you didnt get earlier) and item 3036/item 3033

So personally i usually builditem 3087 item 3031 item 3006 item 3022 item 3072 item 3053 It may not be the best but its OK

[HOW TO COUNTER YASUO]: Heavy CC champs like Annie Lissandra Poppy or most support tanks. The tank Item item 3143 While Yasuo gets armor pen the crit reduction REALLY helps. SHUT HIM DOWN, unlike popular beleif Yasuo can get shut out of a game fairly easily if you kill him enough, even with Ie Statik if he doesnt have his survival items when everyone else already has 3 items he will die VERY easily. During a fight (since bruiser Yas is nerfed) JUST FOCUS HIM, while other targets can be important to kill if you are worrying at all about Yasuo, just throw your easy CC at him and instaburst him, he doesnt get too tanky anymore. Fighting in the jungle is always a benefit as the only way he can dash is if he lands in the middle of your team when (if semi competent) can kill him. And lastly DONT AUTO CHASE, landing knockups comes REALLY easy if your entire team is mad clicking on him as he walks away and all of your champs auto path into a nice single file line.

[And finally HOW I WOULD NERF YASUO]: So if you read ALL OF THAT and still wish he was gutted well then hello. DON'T DO ALL OF THESE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

  1. NERF HIS ITEMS, A lot of Yasuos strength actually comes from his items, (double crit does nothing if you have no crit anyway, Armor pen does little if you have 0 damage) and people hate adcs and think they are strong right? Well with the nerf of armor pen, crit is back, and in full force knock out 2 birds with one stone by nerfing one or both of item 3046 and item 3087

  2. i would making generating flow at later levels harder as it gets fairly easy at high levels, however generating flow at early levels isn't as fast as you think.

  3. Switch the crit reduction on his Q and AA, WARNING: this would mean he could do more damage to multiple champions if they lined up for his q but make it so he couldn't auto you for as much damage (which is easier)

  4. If you really REALLY hate his Windwall instead of it being from 30/28/26/24/22 (or whatever it actually is im not sure) change it to 28/27/26/25/24 as early game his windwall will always only really be for blocking 1 ability until its back up and it would (slightly) shorten the time he can use it again late game in teamfights to protect his whole team.

  5. Maybe MAYBE a slight CDR increase at later ranks, this is because Yasuos ult cooldown only really becomes a problem at its last rank as a conditionary ult with armor pen (really early isnt the important part of his ult) and low damage (and first 2 ranks) since yasuo builds little ad for the first 20 or so minutes of the game the 1.0 AD scaling isnt an issue so id recommend from 80/55/30 to 80/60/40 or the ratio from 1.0 to 0.9 (I was thinking 0.8 but and 0.2 difference is a surprisingly large amount looking at the math)

[As for popular ways i've seen]:

Nerf windwall cooldown: this is a bad idea as it already is VERY long at all ranks

Make it so that he can't ult of his team mates knock ups or make the cooldown only that short if its his own knockup: The second part of this (while an okay idea) punishes team play and team composition, and while you may hate it a Yasuo Duoing with a Malphite WILL and SHOULD give Yasuo an advantage

His E mobility is fine and any change to cooldown anywhere on this ability would have VERY crippling effects (as with any very short CD ability

Just Rework him: nonono Yasuos kit is designed for outplay and while that is upsetting it is a very VERY well synced kit, it flows well together.

TLDR: I went over in obviously labed sections, noticable by the []s so that it is easy to look through if you are looking for one part, why i think Yasuo doesnt need nerfs as well as his item path (as some people are confused I guess) and how to counter him before i told you how I would nerf Yasuo

17 Comments

DarianEX1 votes

is there an option of " to lazy to read and just wanted to look at the pretty pictures "

Skorch1 votes

Wait what pretty pictures?

DarianEX1 votes

{quoted}

Wait what pretty pictures?

the little images of champs an items xD

zacktootall1 votes

didn't read much but i know that this was not going to change my opinion which is the only problem with yas is that there is another hundred million some odd problems with the game... so yeah take that as you see fit

Cocho1 votes

Read how to counter him, problem with annie is that if you don't have enough dmg, he's just going to dash through minions and destroy you. Yas has many ways to play against her. Yas is going to shit on annie, poppy, and liss.

What I hate about yas, is the fact that the lane isn't up for me to win, it isn't up for him to win, its up for him to lose. Yasuo basically just makes mistakes, he doesn't make right decisions. (Which doesn't sound logical, but is my biased opinion from playing against him with many different champs when I've laned against him over 4000 games.)

If he E's into me while having insufficient minions or shield/windwall, then he made a mistake. If he did have everything, it doesn't really feel like he make a good decision, he just didn't make a mistake.

His Q is up so often, if I dodge his Q, he's just going to have another one up, moving to dodge it often just gives him time to get another Q, and he dps's faster than most champs. I could dodge 70% of them, but if I'm an ap champ or adc, Im losing if Im still in melee range. He doesn't even need to be fed. We could be even.

So I dont want to be in melee range. Period.

Well that become a problem if I want to pop his shield, since its so easy like you said. Just auto attack him! Problem is if I do that, there's 6 dashes in front of him to touch me inappropriately with. So what do I do in laning. Nothing? Well. I wait for him to position poorly (because he will). Thats basically the extent of his counter play. He positioned wrong.

I never looked at his stats before on the wiki, but his shield is 510 at 18. That's actually insane. With some armor/mr, like his base 82.5 at 18, lets say the adc gets lord dominics, oh wait, that doesnt effect base stats. 82.5 armor is ~45% dmg reduced from ad. That's an effective 739.5 shield. and it refreshes on his ult, to add up for 1479. He shouldnt get 2 banshee's veil, as you said, and be able to pump out more dmg than most champs, while having a wind wall, to mitigate more damage.

I want to see what his winrate would be if every team has 2-3 knockups. I don't see yasuos hit good tornados, most yas players are terrible and leave alot of room to kill them in the laning phase. Leaving yourself open from bad play isn't counterplay. That just bad play.

This champ is cancer and you lose by making mistakes on him. If I played him, I would make mistakes, If I had fun with him, I would climb with him and make less mistakes. You win by not making any fatal mistakes (cause you have a free shield and windwall for the smaller ones). Everything he does is straightforward. I can see everything he's doing, there is just nothing I can do about. I don't like playing against him, but I'll take the win if he lets me have it. He isn't my go to ban, because I can deal with the mistakes players make. I can't deal with my teammates feeding early game junglers.

Skorch1 votes

I hate the "its his lane not mine" oxymoron, if you go into a lane thinking "I need to hide and hope he fucks up" you deserve to lose if you think that is all you could possibly do to win.

And the issue with his shield is yes at LEVEL 18 his shield is large, but you dont have to damage through all of it, most mages (if they have short autos 1 small cd ability) can pop it, you walk away, it goes away.

The problem people have against Yasuo is almost 100% intimidation. They fear that this Yasuo may be good which gives him an advantage at level 1. If you fear any champion as a champion you will lose more games against that champion and eventually their existence will tilt you. I learned how to fight him so i am actually excited when i get to fight him.

And FYI capitalizing on mistakes is league. At any high enough elo ANY mistake on ANY champion will allow ANYONE to capitalize on you. At lower elos people don't know how to punish mistakes as easily.

Cocho1 votes

Yeah, I can pop it no problem if there is no minions LOL. Even if I was somehow successful, I just used mana on nothing. Its back up 5 seconds after my q comes back lol

Not at all. I assess what the enemy laner is capable of through some different ways. I go against every player thinking they're trash.

The yas player is trash 99% of the time, so 99% of the time, waiting for him to make a mistake he doesn't really realize is a mistake works.

You can't argue with these numbers lol.

I can't punish him through cooldowns, outsustain, warlords+no mana can't outtrade him if he's remotely competent, jg and I can't 2v2 yas and their jungler,
wave management doesn't mean as much against him. I can't shove him under tower (he will last hit everything since he has no cooldowns), and I don't want to be shoved in. Freezing vs him means nothing if it isn't zoning him off (yas is also pretty good at unfreezing it). I can do that with fiora, but she is also a duelist. So only answer I find is freezing if you're a duelist, or wait for him to do something stupid. Roam? dude will take my tower with his 30% as in runes/masteries and 30% that he rushes.

He's like soraka (in theory), he just breaks the rules. Everything you thought you knew about trading, laning, and how league works, doesn't matter.

Veraska1 votes

i would be fine with his flow generation being slower at lower ranks and some nerfs to his base ad and early Q/E damage (maybe remove the stacking dmg amplifier on his E as it adds what i would consider needless complexity)

As a former yasuo main i always felt his early game was much stronger then it felt like it should be for how powerful his late game potential is.

Another point is yasuo is super popular, like lee and lucian and they don't need to be nerfed BECAUSE they're popular but they need to be adjusted so that their presence doesnt completely remove champions theyre strong against from the game (like how lucian basically determined what ADs could be played bot or how lee sin is the measuring stick a jungler has to measure to in higher elo)

Skorch1 votes

you know i forgot about base stats those would be good options too. However i think his flow generation early is horrible, and his qs only damage is the crit as it starts with like 20 base ad. Maybe they could change the scaling to scale with points you put into it on his q?

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Personally, my preferred nerfs would be:

  • Windwall won't block projectiles until it hits the ground.

Reason: It can be rather annoying when Yasuo blocks a projectile by throwing his Windwall in the complete opposite direction (since it starts inside his model)

  • Ultimate doesn't place him outside of tower range if at all possible.

Reason: Seems like unnecessary power; his ultimate should place him in the same position as he would be if his target wasn't under a tower.

Those are my main peeves with Yasuo. Mostly, I just find they add unnecessary power and provide unnecessary safety cushions. If the player makes a mistake (i.e. ulting a target when it would place them under tower, missing Windwall), they should be punished for it.

Though, I would probably still ban him because I dislike having one on my team (frequently snowballs or feeds, often overaggressive or overextending during laning phase, attracts toxic players) and he is annoying to play against.

Generally, I'm just happier when Yasuo isn't in my games on either team. If there weren't higher priority bans at the moment, I would just ban him to avoid the aggravation.

Skorch1 votes

i see a lot of people saying they hate how yasuos windwall starts on him but i think riot likes it that way

also only a REALLY good yas can throw it the WRONG way and avoid it, the window is like 3 frames

bad arcade kitty1 votes

yasuo is a way too oppressive laner and his windwall/his mobility are broken beyond belief

go lane something like ahri against a good yasuo and you will understand why people want to have him nerfed

Skorch1 votes

I LOVE playing Ahri against Yasuo its such a fun lane.

I throw my Q > he win walls it > I wait for it to be back up > i ult, w, e, q at him. > I ult away.

There is sooooo much mobility, and skillshots, and outplay potential in that lane its so fun.

bad arcade kitty2 votes

{quoted}

I LOVE playing Ahri against Yasuo its such a fun lane.

I throw my Q > he win walls it > I wait for it to be back up > i ult, w, e, q at him. > I ult away.

There is sooooo much mobility, and skillshots, and outplay potential in that lane its so fun.

except yasuo has zero mana problems unlike ahri and also his additional shield to add to his windwall and can easily dodge any screenshot with his mad dashes

he counters a lot of mages including ahri and not in a healthy way

Skorch1 votes

Does that mean i get discouraged and think i can never fight him? No. I personally find it a fun lane as every champion has different things to worry about.

Ahri - mana

Yasuo - Windwall CD, Number of minions he can E too

A Large part of League of Legends is your attitude

bad arcade kitty2 votes

{quoted}

Does that mean i get discouraged and think i can never fight him? No. I personally find it a fun lane as every champion has different things to worry about.

Ahri - mana

Yasuo - Windwall CD, Number of minions he can E too

A Large part of League of Legends is your attitude

you imply mages don't have cd too?

the ult of yasuo has a very low cd btw and his tornado is easy to land

Skorch1 votes

I wasn't listing everything a champion has to worry about in lane as that would take up more characters than i used in the post, obviously everyone has multiple things they have to worry about.

Im just stating that going into lane you shouldnt fear yasuo as that puts you at a disadvantage. Your attitude has much more impact that you'd beleive.

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