Am I the only one who thinks ADCs getting true damage for tanks is a good thing?

Skorch··10 votes·4,781 views

Hear me out okay? (TLDR at the bottom)

First lets talk about a serious tank issue right now.

Tanks typically build WAY more Armor than MR, however because of the nature of mages tanks only NEED 1 MR item to take DRASTICALLY reduced damage from mages, To the point where they can typically ignore them almost completely unless they are a large threat to the backline... moreso than the ADC/Assassins at least. This also means that the rest of the items are either Armor or Health.

Heres the issue, ADCs only really have 1 item for dealing with tanks... item 3035 and its upgrades. Specifically item 3036 The rest of the items an ADC builds its basically getting more and more damage in order to utilize that last whisper to be able to damage the tank. OTHERWISE because of how they are, unless you have a good fighter that isnt gonna be CCd and die immediatly in a teamfight the ADC will be the only one to even threaten the tank at all.

Because ADCs build so much damage in order to damage tanks, and the nature of current IE, this causes ADCs to deal how much damage they need to deal to a tank with over 4k health, and 70% reduction (since all they need to build is armor) to squishies with 1500 health and 30% reduction.

This means ADCs murder squishies not tanks.

...

NOW with the NEW changes, ADCs will have a guaranteed X amount of damage to deal to tanks, regardless of armor. This means ADCs dont need insane amounts of DPS in order to kill the 5k health maokai, with 400 armor, healing for over 1k every 5 seconds.

"But the issue is they can still BUILD for insane DPS can they?" Well not quite With the reduction of the IE crit damage. Riot essentially cut ADC damage down by 1/5 which is quite a bit. Not only that but with ALL of the price increases, They will get those items a fair amount later in the game. So even though they deal true damage on a fifth of their hit, that means they can damage tanks without having insane numbers.

And since they lost 1/5th of their damage that true damage will be significantly less impactful than ADCs are normally.

Now HOPEFULLY they can also nerf MR items a bit causeing tanks to build 2 MR instead of 1 to be threatened by mages. Now this SEEMS like an overall nerf to tanks, but instead it would cause a major issue with tanks in league of legends to be fixed. Meaning tanks can at that point be balanced easier.

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The one thing im not sure about is the conversion from bonus to total on item 3035 and the double Crit on item 3031 I have no idea how those changes will affect the game. So if you have an issue with that I am a-ok with that. This is referring to JUST the true damage on IE.

TLDR: First I am only talking about the IDEA of true damage on crit autos, not all of the changes, so you can have your own opinion on that. A major issue with tanks in league is the fact that because mages are so little of a threat to them they can invest more in armor, causing ADCs to invest more and more in damage. With ADCs dealing true damage, that gives them an amount of damage to tanks that cant be reduced by their ability to stack armor, meaning they can lower ADC damage overall, without causing tanks to steamroll squishies like they used to. Hopefully Tanks MR items will get nerfed making them typically have to build 2 MR items to be able to easily tank mages.

16 Comments

Beerstein5 votes

The baron "buff" tells all. It's dropping at the same speed because on-hit builds. Tanks are in the shitter, period. If adding 5,000HP to the baron did nothing, what the heck are humans supposed to do to create tanks?

P.S. I play mostly just on-hit builds, I'm not talking about opponents.

Warlord Rhinark5 votes

I don't really think it's the ADCS people are worried about.

I would assume it's these bois:

MasterYi Tryndamere Yasuo

Khristophoros4 votes

A lot of people have been asking for ADCs to have less dmg vs squishies so no you're not.

I mean, it's pretty much just armor pen that works better in a few edge cases (eg. vs alistar) so it's nothing to write home about.

What's really smart about the new IE is that Riot now has separate ways to tune penetrating armor for crit champs and non-crit AD champs. If it turns out that ADCs hit tanks too hard, IE can be tuned down while Last Whisper and Black Cleaver don't need to be nerfed.

Skorch3 votes

{quoted}

A lot of people have been asking for ADCs to have less dmg vs squishies so no you're not.

I mean, it's pretty much just armor pen that works better in a few edge cases (eg. vs alistar) so it's nothing to write home about.

What's really smart about the new IE is that Riot now has separate ways to tune penetrating armor for crit champs and non-crit AD champs. If it turns out that ADCs hit tanks too hard, IE can be tuned down while Last Whisper and Black Cleaver don't need to be nerfed.

Exactly I think its a decent idea, but everyone on the front page is just talking about how "true damage is busted" and this is an actual "BUFF" to ADCs, "according to math Lists a different math calculation than the 10 people before them"

Jbels4 votes

I hear what you're saying about the one MR item and all armor item thing, but you need to understand something. Mages have access to a metric shit ton of magic penetration. In fact, it almost completely invalidates that one MR item. The only reason we don't get more MR items after it is because we can't afford to. The ADC is going to get to late game at some point, and we're going to need those armor items for it.

Mages chunk instead of DPS, which is why it seems like tanks don't die quickly to mages. It isn't that mages do too little damage to them, it's that mages excel at killing squishier targets and have a harder time killing tanks

Ifneth1 votes

But you do have to build at least 1 MR item. Stacking armor just lets the enemy midlaner do this:

Taliyah: item 3285 item 3020 item 3165 item 3151 item 3116 item 3089

33 flat magic pen. 600+ AP. 2% Max HP per second burn with perma-slows. Aka the Teenage Fountain Laser.

Spank the Fox1 votes

{quoted}

I hear what you're saying about the one MR item and all armor item thing, but you need to understand something. Mages have access to a metric shit ton of magic penetration. In fact, it almost completely invalidates that one MR item. The only reason we don't get more MR items after it is because we can't afford to. The ADC is going to get to late game at some point, and we're going to need those armor items for it.

Mages chunk instead of DPS, which is why it seems like tanks don't die quickly to mages. It isn't that mages do too little damage to them, it's that mages excel at killing squishier targets and have a harder time killing tanks

Don’t forget HP alone helps counter burst, which also a lot of armor items provide. So in buying armor items, you’re still mitigating mage burst because mage itemization doesn’t have a lot of %HP modifiers.

Irelia Bot3 votes

If they were only changing the 50% more crit damage to 20% of critical stike damage is true damage on IE I would understand and to a much reater degree agree with the changes. But they are effectively adding 750 worth of stats to a Zeal item + IE combo for a 500 gold cost increase all the while if you have 62.5 or more armor you will be taking more damage due to the 10% more crit before even counting the 10 more AD.

Every small increase adds to the damage creep.

flibitydoo2 votes

No one has talked about it

but IE being changed to true damage conversion from bonus crit damage is a slight dent in ADC waveclear. Minions have base resist of 0 at all phases of the game (unless supported by a super minion aura), meaning switching to true damage (or having armour pen) doesn't change how much damage you do to'em.

Khristophoros3 votes

The overall changes make it more complicated than this. Stormrazor makes Runaan's a more attractive item because the side bolts can crit so you keep the Stormrazor AS/MS buff going easily. If you build this way you have a lot of waveclear.

KZ Engel1 votes

i just dont want my boi to get nerfs he doesn't deserve Yasuo

Skorch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KZ Engel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TO1n4AoJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-07T03:43:58.638+0000)

i just dont want my boi to get nerfs he doesn't deserve Yasuo

INB4 "But according to math I did shorthand he is getting a 700% damage buff with the changes."

Vlada Cut1 votes

It's good for adc's who don't have true damage but build bork, but bad for those who build bork and already have true damage like Vayne or Conqueror abusers like Draven or MissFortune. It's good for shredding tanks but it was fine when Vayne, Varus and Conqueror Bruisers could only do it, now the true damage creep is farfetched.

Saianna1 votes

What's the point of armor, magic resist, armor/magic penetration if in the end of the day you take all of this and throw it into trashbin and slap on ADC "now you deal 100-150 true dmg on hit lol"

Why not just make it HOTS-like with armor? Why even play with those silly numbers if in the end of the day even Riot themselves ignore/avoid it?

OhPieSenpai1 votes

So i like the idea of fixing the Tank Meta but Riot just release a bunch of crap now by doing this with the new item (Storm Razor) and Changes to item 3031 &item 3508 and Zeal items cost, Riot legit buff ALL Assassins except LB and AHRI and Bruisers with the new Item and the Changes, Tryndamere Yasuo 40% True DMG like really ? and then other Champs can Crit for CRAP TON of DMG seems too broken after playing on PBE and i play ADC and Mid and it's just a big wtf I played a Zed game where I one shot adc with a Auto like does that seem Fair ?

Silverjust1 votes

I am not worried about this changes in particular, I am just scared that riot will continue adding truedamage at this rate and armor will be worthless

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