Played volibear, had 4k hp, 400 armor with stoneplate, last teamfight before we lost, I lasted 1.8 secs. Literally investing in 6 tank items and I can't even TANK. I don't understand how can I die so fast. Even if 3 ppl focused me, I'd hope with 6 tank items to last more than 1,8 seconds. Their adc didnt even have LW.
NekoniClaws38 votesWere you playing a tower?
DunkinNoobs32 votesTry not running in 1v5.
SwiftKitten8861 votesTry not running in 1v5.
i don't think u understand the concept of a "teamfight", let alone the role of a tank.
DunkinNoobs37 votesIf you're dying in 2 seconds during teamfights as a full tank Volibear, then you're the one that doesn't understand how to teamfight. Pretty much the only way you die that quickly as a tank is if you run into their entire team and get focused by 5 people. That is not your job.
ZT Xperimentor16 votesYou clearly underestimate the power of critical hits.
Thefrostyviking14 votesOP stated that the marksman in question didn't have any last whisper item.
No matter how powerful crits may be they do definitely not deal any particular damage against a full on tank with a ton of armor unless you have a way to bypass that armor.
Unless it's Vayne, or kog.
I have played plenty of both ends of that, and no crit marksman without last whisper can hope to kill a full items tank anytime soon without the help of upgraded last whisper.
Except Vayne.
Thus it stands to reason that OP either played against Vayne or OP is omitting some rather important parts of the puzzle.
#"Edit"
Some comment below claim that OP had 0 magic resistance aside from stoneplate and was playing against a malz running liandry's tormet.
In this case we can assume that Malz dropped his entire combo on OP and ulted as well.
If malz has 500 AP then his ulti will deal 9% of targets max health per tick.
5 ticks = 45% of voli's max health gone.
And this isn't even counting base damage on ulti, liandry, malz E or Q.
It´s safe to assume that due to not having any magic resistance volibear OP probably lost well over 60% health to malzahar alone.
ZT Xperimentor3 votesOh yeah? https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/866242507560938373/300353EBCAFBAAD640EEDC6704852D7ADC7E96FB/ All the penetration twitch had was the ghostblade, but also an infinity edge; I had thornmail & randuin's omen, yet he chunked me for 1k damage in a couple seconds. Had sivir doing similar damage in a previous game. Critical hits are still overtuned and it's even more excessive with the new runes.
Thefrostyviking4 votesah the pic is a tad bit small, i can't read it properly and i dont know how to make it bigger without making it blur :(
But it does indeed look like Twitch did most of your health in a few seconds, however there are some factors and difference's to consider as well.
First would be that Trundle doesn't posses any tank steroid unless he can ult a tank, thus he is actually fragile for a melee.he trades so much durability for sustain, speedup and the possibility of massive tankiness.
Which on the other hand makes him really bad when there isn't some big tank nearby to steal armor from when enemy damage carries appear.
OP also claims to have had 4000 health, and 400 armor...... no idea how 400 armor is possible on volibear <,<
With that build on trundle however you can't have had much more than 226.
Thus there is a huge difference already.
Then due to the blurry picture i can't tell how much damage Zed did, nor how much health you had from start, nor their levels which also count as big factors.
But if i had to guess i´d say that Zed did around 500-700 damage and Twitch the rest, in 2-3 seconds.
Which is still hella quick but given Trundle's weakness and Twitch's&zed's current strengths i am not really surprised.
I kinda hope he get's nerfed still though x)
Stealth+that ulti is what bugs me, not his basic AA damage, had he had one or the either it woulda been fine to play against but both is just obnoxious.
ZT Xperimentor1 votesClick the picture, then right click the 'I understand' warning and open it in a new tab/window.
Thefrostyviking2 votesWait....that didn't work at first!
It just opened a seperate widow with the picture being just as small at first ._.
But.....acording to the death recap Zed did about as much damage as expected but my prediction about Twitch was off.
That thing is still just as unreliable as always x)
So while there is about 300 health unaccounted for it still went about as expected, with Twitch and Zed doing the work i mean.
Zed actually did a bit more damage than i had thought as well.
ZT Xperimentor3 votesOh? That's weird, haven't had trouble like that here before.
Death recap should've been updated years ago; but it doesn't discount dying within seconds of a teamfight when only two people focus you.
The minor missing health was from one of the birds fiddlesticks threw just before the engage, taric stayed back and spammed healing until needed for a counter-initiation with kalista, usually leaving me the only frontline for most of the game, hence my purely defensive build against a bunch of damage dealers.
Thefrostyviking2 votesWell Riot have kinda enforced that either your frontline is a dedicate tank or they melt in seconds if they try to act like one.
It just kinda leaves all the divers and juggernauts in a awkward place.
ZT Xperimentor4 votesBruisers in general are outmoded, the hit & run fighters have mobility to dodge and tanks have significant survivability. Last couple years they've been buffing damage but hardly durability, it's no wonder everyone feels fragile.
Thefrostyviking3 votesAnything with a support nearby feels pretty durable though.
That and dedicated tanks.
Troll for Trump1 votesI'm pretty sure the job of the tank is to run in and absorb as much damage and aggro as possible. At least for vanguards.
DunkinNoobs2 votesI'm pretty sure the job of the tank is to run in and absorb as much damage and aggro as possible. At least for vanguards.
Incorrect. The tanks job, first and foremost, is to control the space around them. You are the truck with the asphalt that paves the way for the rest of your team to do their jobs. If you move too far forward, your team can't follow you, as being too far in front of your team significantly lessens the value of any CC you apply and thus you've lost control of the space around you. We've all seen the Amumu that lands a 5 man ult that does nothing because his team wasn't in position to capitalize, and while that is often the teams fault, it is very often also the tanks fault for being too overzealous in their initiation. Being tanky is merely one of the tools a tank uses to control space, but it is not their solely their job to be tanky, nor is it their job to take damage. If you're the only one in range for the enemy team to hit, you're not tanking for your team; you're just taking a ton of free damage.
Snowplosion2 votesWait, this dude had zero MR items against a the fucking Malz. Are we going to act surprised he gets melted by the one damage type that he hadn't build any resistances to.
dominusx23 votesOnly gimped tanks survive.
Shit like Rammus due to his stupid W. Seju ith her Passive ( whom is as useless once her passive goes down ) Or things like Mao who can dodge stuff with their OUTPLAYLC$ button
Brotha20 votesTank champs with damage reduction in their kit are doing fairly well right now.
Voli is just garbo that needs his rework yesterday. In the meanwhile I'd advise picking up 
he is literally a better Voli (Better atk speed steroid, better burst, better CC, better move speed steroid).
Trollmanship10 votesTank champs with damage reduction in their kit are doing fairly well right now.
Voli is just garbo that needs his rework yesterday. In the meanwhile I'd advise picking up
It's a pretty fucking sad current state of the game that "This champ with tons of health, a large health regen passive, huge movespeed boost with strong displacement CC on his first auto" is considered a garbage kit.
Says a lot about Riot.
WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOO9 votesYou can make any kit sound op.
Trollmanship6 votesYou can make any kit sound op.
Look at his actual fuckin' kit, it would be fine in a balanced game but melee is so ridiculously underpowered compared to ranged in this game that it's shit.
NineTailedMystic3 votesNo, Volibear's kit is shit. His numbers are decently high, but he has one goal of running at you.
The Great Divide2 votesI think it's more mobility is really rampant (mobility with burst), which really made ADCs suffer. So they tried to buff supports and ADCs to deal with that forgetting melee's who don't have tons of mobility.
Durzaka3 votesYou can make any kit sound like an amazing kit if you list it in a vacuum like that.
Now list it next to Warwicks kit and see why its considered not good right now.
nm101014 votesLet me guess Malzahar ult'd your near 0 MR bear butt for 90% of your health? Then after being 10% hp you popped your stoneplate and wondered why they were able to kill you.
option paralysis2 votesLet me guess Malzahar ult'd your near 0 MR bear butt for 90% of your health? Then after being 10% hp you popped your stoneplate and wondered why they were able to kill you.
I'll check the game what exactly happened when I get home. Nevertheless, if I built more mr, ad's would have kill me even faster. So what am I supposed to do ? I guess not play volibear. Am I supposed to be in backline as a tank so I don't get ulted by malza ?
nm10105 votesBuild an adaptive helm and severely gimp Malzahar's entire kit?
PB4UAME1 votesAnd then die to the ADC in 2 seconds. Great.
nm10104 votesBear (hehe) minimum Jhin takes upwards of 4 autos to get Voli low, realistically much more (I can't be bothered for actual math for specifics) since he had no armor pen. 8 Jhin autos with 2 reloads = ~13 seconds to even get Voli into a danger zone.
Champion Skin2 votes
with 100% crit (with IE) +250 AD +65% AS from items (Though I don't know how much AD/AS he would have from runes)
Which at level 18 gives Jhin a total of 739 AD and he deals 1385 damage per AA +400 burst damage from Shiv (not sure if it gets reduced by Jhin passive)
Though then again just with 400 armor and 4k HP Volibear has 20 000 effective HP against physical damage (and that's not even counting 
) though 
did have 
which would drop the effective HP to around 16 000 when fully stacked
TheUltimateLife1 votesI can see his KDA isn't the best, so I'd assume you didn't build much MR because Malz wasn't a huge problem at the start? It was a 40-minute game, though, so you really should've accounted for the fact that they'd have magic damage late game. A spirit visage, in my opinion, is a must-have for a Volibear's final build if the enemy has at least one source of magic damage. You shouldn't be going full armor if they've a magic damage source, especially when it's a late-game threat like Malz.
I can't say exactly how much extra damage you might have taken from the AD threats, but 400 armor is just excessive. It stops making much of an impact after a few hundred, I believe. I'd say it's best to have a balance of 200+ each. You get like two-thirds damage reduction from each source that way, and getting more only raises it to 70%-ish. Not a huge difference compared to the amount of MR you could've had with another dedicated item.
As for what to do against Malz as Volibear, as a Malz main I can tell you: Not much. Like I said Visage is good for Voli's passive and all stats are useful on him. Adaptive Helm is really the best anti-DOT magic damage item, though. Itemization aside, though, like I said there's not a great place for Voli vs. Malz. Best course of action is obviously to have the team get rid of the shield first (Twitch might have been the best for that in your game, but to be honest you didn't have great AoE poke that game), and then Voli's best engage has always been Flash + Q. And regardless of who you flipped, if it wasn't Malz, you'd probably get ulted right after. Even if you explode, you took one for the team and Malz lost his ult to the tank. Of course, if they melt everyone afterward it doesn't matter, but even not lasting long, it's a decent accomplishment to get Malz's ult out of the way. And you still had great follow-up damage potential with a Twitch, Jhin and Ezreal, even if only for 1.8 seconds. Also, obviously if you're going to solo engage without poke, the only thing you can do is Flash + E + Q, to ensure Malz's passive is down first.
But I can tell you, especially after Rylais, unless I've just not faced too many great Bears out there, Malz can kite and peel Voli off his team pretty well. After that it's really up to your team to have enough follow-up to win the team fight. Malz has great damage and decent peel for his team, but you get on top of him and have enough mobility to stay in his face, you can out-DPS/burst him with quite a few champs.
Champion Skin3 votesThe reason for not stacking armor/MR is because of 
and because HP works against Magic and physical damage and true damage while resistances only work against one kind of damage (and because almost all tank items gives HP)
2 000 HP + 0 armor = 2000 effective HP (against physical damage) 2 000 HP + 100 armor = 4 000 effective HP 2 000 HP + 200 armor = 6 000 effective HP 2 000 HP + 300 armor = 8 000 effective HP
4 000 HP + 0 armor = 4 000 effective HP 4 000 HP + 100 armor = 8 000 effective HP 4 000 HP + 200 armor = 12 000 effective HP 4 000 HP + 300 armor = 16 000 effective HP
(DR = Damage reduction) Going from 0% ---> 50% DR halves the damage you take (duh) But going from 50% ---> 75% DR also halves the damage you take (going from taking 50% of the incoming damage down to 25% is also 50% reduction in the damage you take)
The Deckowner11 votesTry not play a melee minion.
Azadethe7 votesI've honestly seen a Voli decimate on Precision runes. Hard to get away from, self healing, huge burst of auto attacks..... Maybe you shouldn't be going full tank but rather high HP damage. Damage sustains now more than pure stats do, with Grasp, Ravenous Hunger, and Taste of Blood, which offer HUGE heals.
Also, if you had 6 items, they probably did too, which meant they had completed Lord Dominik's, Mortal Reminders, and 2-3 lethality items. They probably erased about 220 of your armor. If there was a Black cleaver in there, or mages, that also explains a lot. BC + Lord's = 65% Armor reduction. Also, if you had 400 Armor, you sure didn't have much Mag resist. My bet is the one mage was blowing you up for over half the damage taken.
Scary Door7 votesDamage creep continues for the fourth season in a row. Despite the playerbase asking for a reduction in damage across the board (particularly to adcs and burst) the only groups that can't do enough damage anymore are assassins and even then they can do excessive damage as well.
The bottom line is that there's just too much overall damage and tanking or playing melee in general feels absolutely shitty right now.
invisiblecat16 votesIf their ADC had press the attack, then that is why Making anyone take 12% increased damage from all sources is insane
Scrimshäw6 votes400 armor against 5 ap heroes, the oldest trick in the book
Snowplosion3 votesOne Malz vs zero MR items and a lot of health is all it takes.
Noblewind5 votesSeen a lot of these posts that lack important context. Enough that I feel confident if I watched a video of the fight in question, I wouldn't come out thinking "tanks die too quickly, it's not fair". It would probably be more along the lines of "you got caught", or "your teammates did nothing while you got focused and blew enemy cooldowns, feelsbad"
Snowplosion5 votesIn this case it would be "I built zero MR against a Malz. How did I get shredded?"
Champion Skin4 votesNot quite zero as Stoneplate gives 40/80 MR
And there was also 
who's W deals % max HP damage (and there was which was full damage except boots with 
and also had 
which is a pretty damage heavy build and 
which does help the % magic damage of Malzahar and Ornn)
PROJECT Katarìna3 votesVideo evidence please?
Mr Squishy Taco2 votesKind of like being tank-wick and dying to full lethality Kayne in .8 seconds xD I feel you on this one. Armor needs another buff
Weight of Law2 voteshe died to a malzahar, while having 0 mr items, though?????
Champion Skin2 votesI am pretty sure 
gives 40/80 MR
So that's more than 0 mr items
Champion Skin2 votesWell then again you were against with 100% crit (with IE) +250 AD +65% AS from items (and 30% CDR)
Which at level 18 gives Jhin a total of 739 AD and he deals 1385 damage per AA
And that's if he had no AD or AS from runes
And there was also which deals % max HP magic damage and 
(though I am not sure if he would bother using his ult on Volibear)
And with (+1 defensive item and boots)
So there is quite a lot of damage there
Embertine2 votesYou have to take into account that tanks have on average 65-70% damage reduction, meaning each of those 1385 damage autos are actually doing 415-484 damage. Not to mention any crit reduction or auto reduction they might have. There was once a time where I could dive in the middle of the enemy team as Leona and last five seconds before I died. Now it feels like building tank is a waste of gold as you can't even last half that long anymore.
