TY for the Nidalee lore update, but now we need to address her balance

SwiftKitten88··3 votes·1,356 views

for those unfamiliar with Nidalee and why she needs compensation please read the following if u are already aware of how badly the loss of adaptive stats on celerity hurt her, you can skip to the next section after the first page break

she used to run celerity. this with her passive gave her 8 extra ap while in the jungle fighting camps ( this is due to the 30% movement speed bonus when facing hunted targets, which the jungle camps always would be)

nidalee was also in a questionable state after the scuttle changes as her first clear gets her VERY low, and contesting scuttle while below 100 hp. generally is suicidal if the enemy spots it.

however with celerity and waterwalking.. (which also gave AP in addition to even more movement speed in the river to grant even more ap) if played well nidalee could contest scuttle

now although the loss of the 1.5 movement speed everywhere turning into only movement speed while with a speed boost would not have hurt her

what DID hurt he was the removal of the "adaptive" stats. this made her very hard clear even more unsafe and made her even easier to invade this causes a pretty significant drop in her winrate an average of 2-3% in every elo. ( although slightly less in lower elos because people they never know how to properly take advantage of her)

this change was done because riot wanted to address ADC's taking celerity and im sure to a large degree how it interacted with item 3095 crit 20% movement speed bonus..

the issue is... nidalee did NOT need this nerf.. and i want to bring her back to there she was so i can play my main without it bring a "Troll pick".


so how do we do this

#Option 1 well the BEST way to fix this would be to just revert the horrendous scuttle changes. this would then remove the necessity to take scuttle, and instead allow her to HEAL off it, and honeyfruit

this change would not only help nidalee but bring much much more jungle diversity rather than the "pick w/e jungle champ is strongest at lvl 2" meta. it would ALSO remove the issue where w/e jungle falls behind becomes worthless the rest of the game.

overall this would be the best fix although she may to take another option as well maybe a patch later if this wasn't enough

#Option 2 give her back her full pounce reset at lvl 1 (which was a 70% reset) this change was added in patch 6.11 because she was able to start raptors and wolfs first and do them leashless. (which ironically Kayn does now but he is allowed to do. but w/e) however i can see how this could drastically improve clear times.. and it does have the potential to make her an issue if she can reset endless on camps so tyo counteract this... she will ONLY get her "full" reset back on KILLING a unit with pounce or poucing to a hunted CHAMPION poucing to a hunted jungle camp will STILL give the 40/50/60/70% reset per level of her ultimate

this change woudl also DRASTICALLY help her laning, which has been a pretty troll pick these past 3 years

#Option 3 this option is only a slight buff and will likely need to be combined with other buffs and that is giving her her 5 second kitty skills back this change was done in patch 6.21 as a "placebo nerf" to try to get people to shut up about her in season 6 she was then gutted (indirectly) the next path by the removal of strength of the ages as well as the gutting of item 3116 that same patch causing her winrate to drop by 10% however this nerf did next to nothing.. only lowering her winrate by .5%

if riot needs to do a VERY slight buff.. they could add this back

#Option 4 give her her % hp traps back now this once actually made me quit league for 8 months went it went live ( until the release of challenger nid) and that was changing her traps from their reworked value of 8% + 1% per 50 ap (a 0.02) ratio to 40 damage with a .2 ratio

now this change alone was what kicked her out of mid top and support roles and to add insult to injury,, this damage ratio.. was exactly HALF of what she had BEFORE her rework which was 80 damage + .4 ratio so not only was it HALF her pre-rework value during the rework they ALSO removed

  1. the small aoe from the traps,
  2. true sight ( this is no longer and issue she got this back)
  3. magic resist and armor pen at 20/25/30/35/40%

giving her back her 8% max hp damage over 4 seconds may not be much... but it would at least give her SOME defense.. however unreliable. against tankier champions

to prevent to issue that cuased this nerf i the first place ( which was placing like 5 traps under a buff for a 6 second kill) the pre-existing cap of 200 which was implemented on her traps vs jungle camps would be lowered to 40 or 50 at lvl 1 of traps

why they didn't just lower the cap in the first place is beyond me, but there you go...

#Option 5 give celerity its "adaptive stats" back


now i think the best option would be to take option 1 first, then if that's not enough add option 2

then go option 4 then 3 i do feel adding all of these WOULD make her too strong.. but any two of them combined will not break her

Riot TY SOO MUCH for the nidalee lore update.. now PLEASE make her viable again.

the celerity nerf was NOT directed at her.. yet she lost 2-3 winrate across all elos because of it

and yes i NORMALLY would link stats to prove this... HOWEVER as of this post "league of graphs" is in the process of adding the new tiers with the addition of the new iron tier.. so all data shown ~~https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/nidalee ~~ represents 1 elo below what it actually SAYS

so if i look at "plat" that's actually the diamond stats~~

i just wanted to point this out as it would otherwise look rather confusing its also why there is ZERO data on "master"

because the "master" data is actually what is currently listed at "diamond" data. and there never was a "challenger" data tab

so please keep that in mind before u try to say "she has a 57% winrate in diamond" as that data is based off less than 150 games~~

Edit they have corrected this to match they actual stats

8 Comments

Eedat1 votes

......why does one of the strongest junglers in the game atm need buffs exactly? I don't get it. Like even after all those changes she is still currently a top tier jungler

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

......why does one of the strongest junglers in the game atm need buffs exactly? I don't get it. Like even after all those changes she is still currently a top tier jungler

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

its people like you who dont deserve to post

u literally haven't played a non aram game in over a month

and every other game u played for quite a while was on MonkeyKing

clearly never having played nidalee or even rift in the past months you are in a position to know how the change effect her

its literally the FIRST THING in the freaking post.. DESCRIBING how she got indirectly nerfed due to the celerity changes

i wasnt ASKING for a buff to nidalee of 2 patches ago.. im ASKING for a buff to nidalee of THIS patch.

because she just got INDIRECTLY NERFED.

seriously.. why on earth do u even post if u don't freaking read

"oh noes we need to nerf AP yi becuase he was too strong in season 2"

ITS NOT SEASON 2 ANYMORE. the strength of a champion 2 patches any isn't their CURRENT strength.

just as if someone punches you in the face for you saying something stupid, the amount of pain your feeling isn't the same as the amount of pain you felt before they punched you.

Eedat1 votes

You mean the Celerity changes...... that happened LAST patch? Because all the data is showing she was doing just fine last patch despite being "OMG MASSIVELY NERFED BY CELERITY CHANGES".

Second, dont you dare tell attempt to tell me I shouldn't post here. You're the one who logs in your alt "Cheetah Nidalee" and pretends to be a different person to agree with yourself on your main account lmao. Not only is it so insanely cringey to watch, but you should be banned for vote manipulation for doing it. You even try to have conversations with yourself like what the actual fuck?

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/muVGnsdc-morganas-q?comment=000000000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/OrMTbyYr-what-happened-to-my-bloodletter-veil?comment=00000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/c6WUMg5y-it-has-been-4-years-since-her-rework-can-we-please-get-this-simple-qol-change-for-nidalee?comment=0002

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/oAtW2BtA-psa-naopgg-does-not-use-na-data?comment=0000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zcjmk5Av-i-am-surpised-that-no-one-is-talking-about-the-horrific-jungle-exp-change?comment=00060000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/XXrZX8vc-new-players-starting-at-silver-2-4-mmr?comment=00020000000000000000000000000000000100000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AUGqz2dG-theres-no-way-to-climb-playing-tanks-in-low-elo?comment=000100010000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/reEudN6F-i-dont-normally-post-on-changes-ot-champs-i-dont-play-much-but-pbe?comment=00000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Xl5zl62U-psa-anything-above-53-winrate-is-too-strong?comment=0007

Really dude?

All you do is whine about Nidalee no matter how strong or weak she is. Give it a rest ffs. Nidalee is completely fine. Why tf do you want your main buffed to pick/ban so they have to gut her? Why can people never be satisfied when their main is good?

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

You mean the Celerity changes...... that happened LAST patch? Because all the data is showing she was doing just fine last patch despite being "OMG MASSIVELY NERFED BY CELERITY CHANGES".

except it wasn't? and still isn't? wtf are u even LOOKING at?

some shitty like like op.gg that takes only diamond + korea stats? and ignores 99.9% of the actual data i have LINKED the stats.. go look at them...

Second, dont you dare tell attempt to tell me I shouldn't post here. You're the one who logs in your alt "Cheetah Nidalee" and pretends to be a different person to agree with yourself on your main account lmao. Not only is it so insanely cringey to watch, but you should be banned for vote manipulation for doing it. You even try to have conversations with yourself like what the actual fuck?

first off. i dont give a damn about upvotes and downvotes... and the only time i ever log only my alt is to override one moronic vote on a post that is EXTREMELY important to myself. and even thing ONLY if the post is below zero.

i just dont feel it's right that people who DON'T EVEN BOTHER THE READ THE POST should bring my post below zero

if u want to form an opinion and dislike my thread, at least do my the courtesy of READING the post.. if i get a downvote 20 seconds after i make a post that wold be a 2 page essay.. i can fairly certainly be assured that they didn't freaking read the post

Really dude?

All you do is whine about Nidalee no matter how strong or weak she is. Give it a rest ffs. Nidalee is completely fine. Why tf do you want your main buffed to pick/ban so they have to gut her? Why can people never be satisfied when their main is good?

again that is BLATANTLY false. i do NOT ask for buffs when she is "fine"

as u very well know as u freaking linked the threads. i ask for buffs when she NEEDS BUFFS

and infact... all i have EVER asked for are REVERTS of NERFS. and ONLY when it is SAFE to do so.

i did NOT ask for nidalee buffs when she had a 52% winrate in diamond

only started asking for compensation buffs AFTER she lost 2-3% IN EVERY ELO at INDIRECT NERF that WASNT EVEN TARGETING HER to bring her to he PREVIOUS state where she was TWO PATCHES AGO.

and yes... "cheetah nidalee" IS my other account sometimes u can think of a really good response to something, but it looks stupid if u say it to yourself.. so i swap accounts to post it.

i do NOT however "upvote" every post i make with that account. nor do i EVER downvote with it.

i have been using forums for over 15 years.. and i always "sort by recent" whether or not people "like" my post does not matter to me. but if i get some moron downvoting me before he even READS what i wrote i WILL swap account counteract that one moron who dones't bother to use thier brain.

if u want to make an arguments post data.. and we can discuss it like civilized people.. dont downvote me and say shit like "why does one of the strongest jungler needs buffs" when its OBVOIUS that she isnt ANY where NEAR a "Strong jungler" let alone one of the strongest.

nidalee is a champion that has no form of CC and is EXTREMELY reliant on her teammates. and can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING regardless of how fed to stop 2-3 people charging at her.. let alone a 5 man push

i dont play ranked.. but if are going to throw shit out and like like "i dont know what im talking about"

https://i.imgur.com/qbgjoFb.png https://i.imgur.com/Ur64Rki.png https://i.imgur.com/5NnT3sk.png

all of that is WITHOUT being able to rely on my teammates. as most higher elo players can.

dont even TRY to pretend like "i dont know what im talking about"

i flat out PREDICTED how this change would effect her EVEN BEFORE IT DID

https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/client-new-features-feedback/76An2mEX-roit-if-the-celerity-changes-go-live-nidalee-is-going-to-need-compsenation-buffs

i dont need some person who has some sort of bias who isnt even willing to play a rift game OR look at the data telling me I'm "wrong"

Eedat1 votes

except it wasn't? and still isn't? wtf are u even LOOKING at?

some shitty like like op.gg that takes only diamond + korea stats? and ignores 99.9% of the actual data i have LINKED the stats.. go look at them

No dude. Even the site you listed has idalee performing well.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/nidalee

This is your link. You are the one who linked this. Even when you correct it down to 'Gold+' she is performing well. She is performing along the same lines as Graves according to YOUR source. Dafuq?

first off. i don't give a damn about upvotes and downvotes... and the only time i ever log only my alt is to override one moronic vote on a post that is EXTREMELY important to myself. and even thing ONLY if the post is below zero.

Did you miss the part where I linked all those comments where this full of shit?

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/muVGnsdc-morganas-q?comment=000000000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/OrMTbyYr-what-happened-to-my-bloodletter-veil?comment=00000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/c6WUMg5y-it-has-been-4-years-since-her-rework-can-we-please-get-this-simple-qol-change-for-nidalee?comment=0002

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/oAtW2BtA-psa-naopgg-does-not-use-na-data?comment=0000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zcjmk5Av-i-am-surpised-that-no-one-is-talking-about-the-horrific-jungle-exp-change?comment=00060000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/XXrZX8vc-new-players-starting-at-silver-2-4-mmr?comment=00020000000000000000000000000000000100000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AUGqz2dG-theres-no-way-to-climb-playing-tanks-in-low-elo?comment=000100010000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/reEudN6F-i-dont-normally-post-on-changes-ot-champs-i-dont-play-much-but-pbe?comment=00000000

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Xl5zl62U-psa-anything-above-53-winrate-is-too-strong?comment=0007

How tf can you even possibly claim this?

**You literally log in and out of your alt to act as a different person and agree with yourself so it seems like more people agree with whatever point you're making **

You actually have back and forth conversations WITH YOURSELF. What the actual fuck is that?

Legit all you do is spam about Nidalee. In the past month you have made 14 different threads about her and celerity.

You have threads like this:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Yp4o80Ng-when-changing-a-champion-take-into-account-the-skill-needed-to-play-it-and-its-current-players

Where you pretend its about other champs BUT JK IT'S REALLY ABOUT NIDALEE

https://i.imgur.com/OQOuku5.png[/img]

Give it a rest already man. Your champ is doing fine. My main got triple nerfed in one single patch and you still don't see any threads where I cry about it once because he's still playable even with a 0.5%-1% pick rate top and 1%-1.5% pick rate jungle. Take a step back, realized your opinion is biased as fuck, and look at the big picture.

You constantly go on above removing upfront burst like item 3147 item 3095 but don't you find it weird how item 1402 is immune because your main uses it?

and then it rid of items like item 3147 which give guaranteed upfront burst for doing a nothing and in item 3095 case LITERALLY nothing for 3 second.. like come on

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM item 1402 does Literally the EXACT SAME THING yet you seem to find it immune to you own line of thinking. Why didn't that one make your list? Or item 3100? Or item 3152? I'm sure it was just an oversight and not bias at all right?

You wanna say since I don't play Nidalee that I can't possibly know how she's doing?

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=swiftkitten88

You have played her exactly one single time after the Celerity changes and it was even AFTER you made this thread

Don't call people morons because they disagree with you. I disagreed with you because I think you're wrong. And don't you fucking dare tell me I shouldn't post on this board when you're the one using multiple accounts to team up with yourself

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

wtf are u even LOOKING at? i have LINKED the stats.. go look at them

No dude. Even the site you listed has nidalee performing well.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/nidalee

This is your link. You are the one who linked this. Even when you correct it down to 'Gold+' she is performing well. She is performing along the same lines as Graves according to YOUR source. Dafuq?

.... nidalle is going the same as graves in ONE ELO

_your _the person linkning my threads do u even READ them?

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Xl5zl62U-psa-anything-above-53-winrate-is-too-strong?comment=0007

you link this thread yourself... READ IT i care about ALL elos.. not just ONE elo, i realize that to buff or nerf a champion you need consider how it affects ALL elos.

if u buff it for one elo.. will it be broken for another? is it actaully viable to give that champions buffs for example... just becuase a champion might be 45% in one elo... if they are sitting at 52-53% they CAN'T get "flat buffs

however if they we at 45% in one elo... but at 49% in another they COULd be buffed to wait by 2-3% in every elo WITHOUT breaking them

if u nerf it for one... will it be garbage tier for another? the same goes in reverse, if you have a champion that is at 54% winrate in one elo and 45% in another.. a "flat nerf" is PROBABLY not the "best idea", what would need tyo be done first would be a way to lower tine winrate differential with some sort of change. then once that is lower the champion can be buffed or nerf accordingly

if nidalee was at 49.9% in EVERY ELO then YES she WOULD be fine

the difference is she ISN'T

Graves IS at 49-50% in EVERY ELO

THATS where your issue is.. the donest doesn't revolve around "your elo" you need to take into account EVERY elo. again i stated this IN THE THREAD U JUST LINKED

You actually have back and forth conversations WITH YOURSELF. What the actual fuck is that?

Legit all you do is spam about Nidalee. In the past month you have made 14 different threads about her and celerity.

You have threads like this:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Yp4o80Ng-when-changing-a-champion-take-into-account-the-skill-needed-to-play-it-and-its-current-players

Where you pretend its about other champs BUT JK IT'S REALLY ABOUT NIDALEE

https://i.imgur.com/OQOuku5.png[/img]

Give it a rest already man. Your champ is doing fine. My main got triple nerfed in one single patch and you still don't see any threads where I cry about it once because he's still playable even with a 0.5%-1% pick rate top and 1%-1.5% pick rate jungle. Take a step back, realized your opinion is biased as fuck, and look at the big picture.

its "doing fine" in _one_elo

like i stated before.. 50% in one elo is good.

but if u are 50% and in EVERY OTHER ELO you are SIGNIFICANTLY below that.. thats a pretty big different than being "FINE" in "every elo"

two patches ago she WAS "fine" in every elo

THAT is what im asking for. she was INDIRECTLY nerfed for a reaosn that had NOTHING to do with her. and i want her conpensated so that whe is viable in ALL elo and not just a the in twenty down the list even for the top 2% of player

while being very close to last in ever other elo

You constantly go on above removing upfront burst like item 3147 item 3095 but don't you find it weird how item 1402 is immune because your main uses it?

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM item 1402 does Literally the EXACT SAME THING yet you seem to find it immune to you own line of thinking.

if you are taking about the very weak luden proc it has i dont give a damn about that they can take that away fro all i care

Why didn't that one make your list? Or item 3100? Or item 3152? I'm sure it was just an oversight and not bias at all right? why wasn't item 3100 on the list?

becuase that item has been around like since ALPHA and i also didnt list item 3078 item 3025 or item 3087 as for item 3152 , first of all if u think nidalee would build that.. your delusional, 2nd, its an active item... i also didnt lst items such as item 3030 item 3144item 3145 item 3042 item 3230 , why? because they are IRRELEVANT..

You wanna say since I don't play Nidalee that I can't possibly know how she's doing?

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=swiftkitten88

You have played her exactly one single time after the Celerity changes and it was even AFTER you made this thread

lol first off like i said i fucking predicted EXACTLY that would happen i LINKED the thread in the last patch

when u have over 1000 games in a champion and have played then as you main since day one and for nearly 6 years, its REALLY not that hard to guess accurately how a change is going to effect them. also.. i tried the change on pbe.. when it was at 13% movement speed.

i know how a change is going to affect nidalee even before it does. as proven by my thread. i said she was going lose winrate. ( i predicted 3-5%) and she lost nearly 3% in higher elo

like i said... i KNEW how this change was going to affect her

the DIFFERENCE is

YOU are talking about a champion u haven't played.. in a MODE u haven't played in a month.

and im talking about my main .. who i have well over 1000 games on, and LITERALLY perfected what what happened if a change went through EVEN BEFORE IT WENT LIVE

if u were taliing about aram balance, then yeah, i would concede the floor to you.. but your not... yuur taloing abut the balance of a champion u dont play... on a patch u haven't played against her on, and u cnt seem to wrap your head around that she got nerfed since u last fought here and isnt in the same state,, and if they nerf ONLY hit her high elo.. i would BE here talking, but it also hit her in aera where she was already struggling and it flat out made her BAD.

its ok" to be" at a 50% winrate in diamond+ there is nothing wrong with that..

but if that is the BEST you can get.. and _that's_only for 2% of people..

then YES she DOES needs buffs.

and we arn't talking about a champion that's going to 1 shot you from nowhere, or a point and click champion with stealth. or a champion that can cast 5 dashes in 2 seconds. we are talking about a champion that is HEAVILY team reliant... cant do ANYTHING to stop the enemy if their team has grouped. and how needs to land a skillshot to even KILL someone.

if she is only BARELY viable for the top 2% of players, then yeah she isn't "one of the best jungler in the game" as u have claimed.

Don't call people morons because they disagree with you. I disagreed with you because I think you're wrong. And don't you fucking dare tell me I shouldn't post on this board when you're the one using multiple accounts to team up with yourself

i said if u dont READ the post you are responding to then you should be allowed to post. and i just proved that that last statement was false in my last post. i dont need to do it again in this one

i call people morons if they are going to IGNORE data that right in front of them. if they choose to talk about somthing they know knowing about and act as if they suddenly have more knowledge than the experts of the subject.

you not going to argue with boxbox about the state of riven. or froggen about the state of anivia. these are people who have problem themselves to know a lot about thier champions as well as being unbiased when it comes towrd balance about them.

at the same time. people like T1 may be damn near godlike on Draven but he still demonstrats CLEAR bias toward it.. and claims things like "crit itemization is bad"

when he tries to take down a hp/armor stacking Sion worth about the worst possible itemization to do so when even a bronze person would have told him he needs a item 3153 for that fight.

i know nidalee strengths and weaknesses, i listed FIVE options to fix her, all in a way that would NOT break her.

i i specifically modified these reverts to be dont in a way that wont re-cause the issue that made them happen in the first place. because i DON'T want nidalee broken

i added a base cap vs jungle mobs on her % hp traps revert i only allowed her full reset at lvl 1 when not pouncing to hunted jungle camps

i am talking into account ways to NOT break her.. and YOU are saying im "just trying to make my main op"

so yeah Im going to call bullshit on that. because its CLEARLY not true

Rock MD1 votes

{quoted}

snip

Holy fuck

this is the best thing I've seen posted on gameplay

SwiftKitten881 votes

also

yes i keep using Nidalee as an example because OBVIOUSLY, its the easiest thing for me to compare to as i have played her for nearly 6 years and have well over 1000 games on her. i cant really be using champs like MasterYi or Corki as examples if i never really played them or have experience on them, and therefore would have no way of knowing if what i said was actually true or not. so i compare things to what i know.. and in many cases nidalee works perfectly fine as an example. if i tried to spout data to try to compare a champion I'm unfamiliar with to compare it to another champion in unfamiliar with, i would be pretty hard pressed to make any sort of point that could be verified, and might as well be talking out of my ass, (kinda like you are) as i would be a completely unreliable source on that matter. when i compare things to nidalee i may not be perfect on the end of the champion i don't know... but i can be sure I'm going to be 100% correct when I'm discussing how a change affected her. and therefore that gives me some solid fact i know and have personally verified that i can work with in the discussion that can provide valuable insight.

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