Give Azir back his W and E.

The Ecdysiast·Oct 10, 2018·1 votes·1,382 views

Azir is in a really rough spot right now. Really, he has been since his Q and passive changes. But considering those changes, I think it'd be fitting to give him back the ability to expend a soldier on turrets and the knockup on his E.

This is in light of Ezreal's new W having the ability to be cast on turrets, but also compared to Ziggs' ability to deal 950 damage to turrets with a rank 1 ability since the Mage Update, Azir's old secondary W that relied on its scaling wouldn't be outrageous to have now.

14 Comments

BlytedOct 10, 20183 votes

That knock up needs to never come back.

The EcdysiastOct 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That knock up needs to never come back.

Care to support that stance somehow?

1 800 MID LANEOct 10, 20181 votes

It makes his ult impossible to dodge unless you use your mobility BEFORE his dash is finished, and in the cases of most mages, that mobility is flash. Being forced to blow flash on a basic ability or else succumb to several seconds of hard CC (that isn't even mitigated by tenacity and can't be cleansed) is not fair at all when taking into account the rest of his kit. The only champions that can chain CC in a similar way are melee tanks that don't have hyper-carry damage late game.

The W charge on turrets would be weird. You can already spam soldiers to get extra attack speed for siege, so adding that passive back in would be kind of counterintuitive. I feel like most players would opt for the bonus attack speed anyway, because it gives you a means of escape or a way to fight whereas using charges on the turret would give turret damage and leave you as a sitting duck.

The EcdysiastOct 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=1 800 MID LANE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TJsA7Gjg,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-10T12:07:49.983+0000)

It makes his ult impossible to dodge unless you use your mobility BEFORE his dash is finished, and in the cases of most mages, that mobility is flash. Being forced to blow flash on a basic ability or else succumb to several seconds of hard CC (that isn't even mitigated by tenacity and can't be cleansed) is not fair at all when taking into account the rest of his kit. The only champions that can chain CC in a similar way are melee tanks that don't have hyper-carry damage late game.

The W charge on turrets would be weird. You can already spam soldiers to get extra attack speed for siege, so adding that passive back in would be kind of counterintuitive. I feel like most players would opt for the bonus attack speed anyway, because it gives you a means of escape or a way to fight whereas using charges on the turret would give turret damage and leave you as a sitting duck.

Jax. And to say that it's unfair because of flash is the fault of flash existing at all and being treated as if it's fair when many champions lack mobility. You can't say it's unfair for a champion to have two forms of cc (that aren't several seconds, you're a liar), because some champs are immobile.
No, no it wouldn't. And you don't get "extra" attack speed, you still get less than he used to with his old kit even, but have to blow three soldiers to get it.

1 800 MID LANEOct 11, 20181 votes

Jax has 1 form of CC that can be cleansed and is reduced by tenacity, and his stun is insanely telegraphed. Azir's knockup on E is not anywhere near as telegraphed. It's not unfair for a champion to have 2 forms of CC (which would result in multiple seconds worth of CC), but it's unfair when that champion has all the other stuff in his kit AND that CC is a double knockup.

The EcdysiastOct 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=1 800 MID LANE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TJsA7Gjg,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-11T00:28:46.885+0000)

Jax has 1 form of CC that can be cleansed and is reduced by tenacity, and his stun is insanely telegraphed. Azir's knockup on E is not anywhere near as telegraphed. It's not unfair for a champion to have 2 forms of CC (which would result in multiple seconds worth of CC), but it's unfair when that champion has all the other stuff in his kit AND that CC is a double knockup.

The point about Jax is he can stick to you much more easily, even through your flash.

Azir's E knockup was not only just as telegraphed, since the soldier needed to already be out, but to do it in a tricky way required either great precision or to be so close as to put yourself in great danger.

Evidently, it wouldn't be too strong to give that back, seeing as his performance is sub-50% overall, with a pretty bad performance 200+ games as well, at only around 53%. So not even his mains are doing well with him. Which should not be the case, as he's among the most mechanically difficult characters in the game.

So I'm suggesting they give back strengths that aren't simply direct damage buffs, and aren't returns to what actually made him overpowered before.

Fatal SalmonOct 11, 20181 votes

Homie, trust what he has to say about Azir, he's the #1 mastery score in the world with him . The 2nd dude is still 1.2 million points behind.

Fatal SalmonOct 11, 20181 votes

https://championmasterylookup.derpthemeus.com/champion?champion=268

saltranOct 10, 20181 votes

Yeah no, he had the most overloaded kit on release that I've ever seen.

I dont know which rioter gave green light to an abomination like Azir but he must be insane.

The EcdysiastOct 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah no, he had the most overloaded kit on release that I've ever seen.

I dont know which rioter gave green light to an abomination like Azir but he must be insane.

Yes, you've explained why these changes were necessary from his on-release kit.

He doesn't have his on-release kit any more. The two most important aspects of his kit were removed:

His doubled AS from items was removed-- replaced by bonus AS on the ability he has to focus second.
His Q no longer deals additional damage per soldier

Your point that his on-release kit was overloaded means absolutely nothing, since that isn't his kit any more.

UperiorOct 10, 20181 votes

They just need to remove the whole shuffle gimmick to actually make him work.

His current E makes him too safe, so if his damage is good, he's too strong.

It's the same issue from BEFORE the soft rework; long range and safety.

If they removed his dash; replaced it with his current ult as a CC (Like Ahri Velkoz Xerath ) on his E and give him a new ult; it would give the balance team a lot more room to improve his power levels.

But they can't do that because of the flashy plays that Azir can make, so he'll be in a pretty rough state until they actually acknowledge it

InfernapeOct 11, 20181 votes

Azir is in a rough spot because his kit is still broken in high elo and competitive. Riot really should have removed the Shurima Shuffle and given him a new ult. He cannot be balanced with it in his kit.