All I want is for tanks to be able to clear the jungle without getting crushed by Lee/Graves

Danny DeVito·Apr 22, 2017·70 votes·2,194 views

Is that so much to ask? ;-;

33 Comments

LuggApr 22, 201715 votes

I wouldn't be that upset to being dominated early if Graves and Lee actually fell off significantly mid and late game.

RalanrApr 22, 20177 votes

Lee does but not enough for squishies to ignore. Graves doesn't because of how crit works.

AirKingNeoApr 22, 201712 votes

Graves doesn't because 1 auto procs Cleaver 4 times.

TwinkieProApr 23, 20171 votes

or the fact 1 auto does double his AD in 1 shot

agbudarApr 22, 20173 votes

yes it is riot wants them to get shit on all game when they go jungle

MrHaZeYoApr 22, 20173 votes

But, Shyv, Elise, and Shaco are ok?

Hexs FortuneApr 22, 201724 votes

{quoted}

But, Shyv, Elise, and Shaco are ok?

Those three have clear weaknesses compared to lee and graves

Stand in my XApr 23, 20171 votes

whats shaco's weakness? i seem to get crushed by him a lot

GULAG 4 UApr 22, 20171 votes

they aren't tanks.

MrHaZeYoApr 22, 201713 votes

Elise is essentially the AP verison of Lee.

Obviously, not the same kits, but they both specialize at early game dominance. Elise even usually beats Lee early game and she can build like a AP bruiser.

item 1410 item 3116 item 3111 item 3742 item 3065 item 3026 vs item 1408 item 3071 item 3102

Two, pretty common builds for them. Obviously, some Elise's go full AP, but that's not her only build.

Shyv on the other hand is pretty tanky, she is a Juggernaut after all.

item 1416 item 3748 item 3111 item 3102 item 3742 item 3022 plus her passive, she's not squishy.

BlåbæretApr 22, 20172 votes

Is this guy for real crying about Shyvana and Elise? Rofl.

AirKingNeoApr 22, 201716 votes

No he's explaining.

BlåbæretApr 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No he's explaining.

"But, Shyv, Elise, and Shaco are ok?"

He's crying and obviously has no clue about strength and weaknesses.

MrHaZeYoApr 22, 20174 votes

Lol, no I just picked 3 other junglers who can easily beat tanks up in the jungle early game.

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 22, 20171 votes

Yeah it a good comparison... but instead item 3116 i see more often item 3151 . But anyway they're both early divers one ap, other AD.... and both can be played full damage (not opti IMO)

MrHaZeYoApr 23, 20175 votes

I see Liandrys on the Elise's that want to kill you and Ryalis on the Elise's who are more frontlineish for the Utility synergy with her spiders.

KoKobotoApr 22, 20172 votes

I could compare Elise to Lee Sin but Elise falls off way more noticeably and feels way less toxic to go up against.

Asayake 5150glowApr 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Elise is essentially the AP verison of Lee.

Obviously, not the same kits, but they both specialize at early game dominance. Elise even usually beats Lee early game and she can build like a AP bruiser.

vs

Two, pretty common builds for them. Obviously, some Elise's go full AP, but that's not her only build.

Shyv on the other hand is pretty tanky, she is a Juggernaut after all.

plus her passive, she's not squishy.

Huh, is Banshees better than SV on Shyv? I mean, it synergizes better with her health stacking + not much resists, but SV is usually better afaik, and the extra health helps with Titanic damage as well.

MrHaZeYoApr 23, 20171 votes

I a lot of the time just prefer the straight MR of Banshees. I usually build Tabis instead so I want as much MR total as I can get. And You get a good amount of overall HP from Your other 3 HP items that losing 200 for 20 more MR to me is more worth it.

The passive of SV isn't as useful on Shyv, but ya it's preference.

PapaGreg21Apr 22, 20171 votes

Shyvana is actually pretty balanced now. She gets no resistances from her passive anymore unless she gets dragons, her q has been gutted and she doesn't do any more extra damage against monsters.

SinofAtlasApr 22, 20173 votes

Sion no problems

greekvandaLApr 22, 20172 votes

yeh lets make all tanks be able to outtrade early game powerhouses so the said early game powerhouse becomes irrelevant mid game come since tanks are unkillable during midgame. Stop crying and start warding. If you are that afraid get trackers knife for further protection smh.

ANd give me that summoner icon i neeeeedzzzz itzzzz

LankPantsApr 22, 20174 votes

I don't want to be able to outrade them, I want to be able to clear fast enough that I can outpath them and with enough HP that I have some hope in hell of surviving if they do enter my jungle. Give me the tools to outscale them so that I don't just lose every game immediately VS a competent Lee because I'm forced into predictable, slow and unsustained pathing due to my shear lack of options.

Also if you think Lee actually falls off that hard you're smoking the finest of ganja. A 3 item Lee is worth about the same as a 3 item tank, it's not until very late in the game that you'd really rather have the tank over the Lee.

TimX24968BApr 22, 20172 votes

I just want rengar to be able to clear his own jungle in the first place. No clue why he was even nerfed recently.

needHymnApr 22, 20171 votes

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LankPantsApr 22, 20175 votes

Not actually a tank though. He's firmly a bruiser. He also still loses to early game powerhouses who plague tanks like Lee and Elise anyway.

junglerboy16Apr 22, 20172 votes

Trundle can hold his own against Lee pretty well early because of his AD steal which hits Lee's damage rotation pretty hard.

When you only have about 70-80 AD early game, losing 10 or 15 of that is a significant hit to your offense.

AnhartaminApr 22, 20171 votes

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ErockandrollApr 22, 20174 votes

{quoted}

What brings graves to the table besides clearspeed and damage?

What would a tank like zac or Sejuani bring to the table if they would be able to clear as fast has he can.

The tanks bring cc, a lot of damage but less than graves, now clearspeed, tankiness, teamfighting.

Regardless of what a champion brings, Clear speed is a poor balancing lever. Because the one clearing faster will always be the one ahead in levels and in gold.

I think over all, Jungle tanks should have comparable clear speed, Just do less single target and more AoE DPS. But that in mind, we now have 3, single monster camps, which become a little more difficult for a tank jungler to take in a reasonable time.

AnhartaminApr 22, 20172 votes

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ErockandrollApr 22, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Which is wrong, clearing doesn't make you go ahead in exp, ganking makes you get even further in exp and global gold since the latest exp assist change and most jungle camps lost exp.

Tank junglers gank better with their cc.

In principle, I honestly believe that Divers are the better gankers. Divers are going to have that lock up, simply in a smaller AoE, or even a single target spell. (Which still works for ganking.) But then bring a lot more damage to the gank as well, making it more likely that a gank will secure a kill.

I'm not sure about the XP changes, but I honestly wouldn't count on ganking all the time, for the majority of your XP. Even with a more reliable ganker, your gank attempt may only result in the enemy losing a flash. (Which isn't bad) And if your opponent has good vision, they man not even leave an opening.

SkorchApr 22, 20171 votes

But... but they arent that strong right now.

KindredAndWolfApr 23, 20171 votes

Idk, why not play kled or poppy jungle and just shit on him early game. They aren't very efficient junglers, but it is possible to make them work with great success against lee. The meta is changing so you never know.