We are basically back to either playing ranged top laners or tanks who can abuse masteries/items.
Hopefully you actually address this before letting it spill over for the first half of next season before the game is completely unfun for people not playing ranged mages/carries or tanks who can abuse masteries/tank items.
The Deckowner11 votesSo melee champions feel like complete dog shit right now
ftfy
MunchCrunchLunch10 votesthey always have been. they are either broken or useless. riot has doomed the melee damage dealing class by making a mechanic in league which is perfect kiting. it does not exist in any other moba. for good reasons. riot has to make huge changes to balance the game
Ralanr7 votesBecause juggernauts and fighters never abused tank items.
Both classes are guilty of abusing their shit.
HateDaddy12 votesBecause juggernauts and fighters never abused tank items.
Both classes are guilty of abusing their shit.
yes but they were specifically reworked to NOT do that.
Ralanr2 votesWho? Juggernauts? How?
HateDaddy10 votesWho? Juggernauts? How?
It's been a long systematic change but it went full circle with the juggernaut changes.
It started with actually giving juggernauts items like black cleaver, steraks and titanic hydra. These give them CDR, enough damage to be a threat and durability most importantly without relying on full tank items and abusing base damages. Items like Trinity, maw and wits end are still open to them as well.
The other aspect was prior to season 6, Riot has systematically changed tanks by giving them better (or more reliable) innate defensive steroids so they are tanky without items. This allowed them to nerf both masteries and tank item values so bruisers wouldn't make better tanks than tanks (this was a big problem in s3 and s4 because of ridiculously high armor and MR values and broken defensive masteries). So now if a bruiser goes full tank, they are extremely underwhelming because they won't be that tanky.
Combine these two things and it's easy to see that bruisers stacking full tank items isn't very good anymore. Building 1-2 damage items + tank items is still viable and Riot is fine with that. That's usually the core build for bruisers anyway.
Ralanr3 votesJudging by Olaf in worlds, it hasn't worked out well. Granted that might be more of an Olaf problem.
Volcanuz1 votesTrue but the base scaling of jugg abilities didn't really change much. Items are one thing, but when a bruiser can still deal out good damage with full tank items there is a problem. It still is rampant in some ranks and it is godawful to face if your adc doesn't know how to go tank buster.
I mean yeah, it is less prevalent but god damn it facing a bruiser/jugg is near impossible some times.
HateDaddy3 votesTrue but the base scaling of jugg abilities didn't really change much. Items are one thing, but when a bruiser can still deal out good damage with full tank items there is a problem. It still is rampant in some ranks and it is godawful to face if your adc doesn't know how to go tank buster.
I mean yeah, it is less prevalent but god damn it facing a bruiser/jugg is near impossible some times.
They fall off too quickly building full tank.
Volcanuz3 votesBy falloff quickly you mean by the 32 minute mark. Sure. But that isn't the builds fault and more the teams fault. Games should never exceed the 30 min mark for tank champs as they will soon become redundant. What you should be doing is forcing a push and working with your team.
The problem jugg players have is they want the power to take 3v1 or even more, and do so while killing or hurting the enemy incredibly. This is just a pipe dream and should be crushed. Stop playing the game like it is a single player game and join your damn team. No matter what you build, in a team fight after lane phase juggs have an incredible advantage and never use it because they just farm until full build then wonder why a full build ADC comes out from enemy team and wrecks them, oh maybe it was because you squandered your prime period in game farming.
Do your job, do damage or soak up damage in fights. You can't be super killing machines who don't die all the fucking time.
Hammermancer2 votesBy falloff quickly you mean by the 32 minute mark. Sure. But that isn't the builds fault and more the teams fault. Games should never exceed the 30 min mark for tank champs as they will soon become redundant. What you should be doing is forcing a push and working with your team.
The problem jugg players have is they want the power to take 3v1 or even more, and do so while killing or hurting the enemy incredibly. This is just a pipe dream and should be crushed. Stop playing the game like it is a single player game and join your damn team. No matter what you build, in a team fight after lane phase juggs have an incredible advantage and never use it because they just farm until full build then wonder why a full build ADC comes out from enemy team and wrecks them, oh maybe it was because you squandered your prime period in game farming.
Do your job, do damage or soak up damage in fights. You can't be super killing machines who don't die all the fucking time.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head
yeah it was nice when the sion rework hit and i could just stack health, go 1v5, kill 1 or 2 enemies and pop ghost right before i died to get 1 or 2 more with a titanic activation
but seriously that process took like 1.5 minutes and that long for a fight is forever. It feels good to be the mega tank that can kill anyone who comes close but in all honesty that's just not fair, the second a juggernaut flashes into range at that point he's gonna have enough cc to stick or soft mobility to keep up javascript:; It was broken, juggernauts are better for being a front line fighter... able to take almost the beating a tank can in exchange for less mobility and more damage
Raid Boss Morde7 votesJuggernauts have been kind of ignored since their class update. The one who has stood above them all has been Darius.
Critmaster Garen8 votesJuggernauts have been kind of ignored since their class update. The one who has stood above them all has been Darius.
the only reason darius isnt sitting in the dump with them is because over the course of the season somewhere they made a bugfix to his e.
the ability was unreliable and didnt pull people mid dash. turns out, the bugfix was a huge buff and his winrate shot up to 54%. but overall his operformance has been declining more and more just like the other juggs, and hes down to 50% now.
if there hadnt been a bug to fix and buff him, hed be in the same position as garen right now.
The Yetii Rider6 votesRiot is going to nerf Rylai's. Once they do that juggernauts will stop being so easily kited. And the diver update should be in the mid season so just wait a few months.
Ranged tops are here to stay. Gnar proves that. Might as well get used to it.
HateDaddy22 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T6Eg3uA2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-15T16:16:07.191+0000)
Riot is going to nerf Rylai's. Once they do that juggernauts will stop being so easily kited. And the diver update should be in the mid season so just wait a few months.
Ranged tops are here to stay. Gnar proves that. Might as well get used to it.
Gnar doesn't actually bug me much. He actually can fuck up and he's easy to kill in mini gnar. Meanwhile, Kennen and Jayce have hard disengage and ridic poke, not to mention they basically outscale everything melee
The Yetii Rider1 votesGnar doesn't actually bug me much. He actually can fuck up and he's easy to kill in mini gnar. Meanwhile, Kennen and Jayce have hard disengage and ridic poke, not to mention they basically outscale everything melee
Where else are Jayce and Kenneth supposed to be played?
HateDaddy19 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T6Eg3uA2,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2016-11-15T16:53:54.703+0000)
Where else are Jayce and Kenneth supposed to be played?
They are both more solid mid lane picks as well.
NineTailedMystic23 votesPlease keep Jayce. We don't want him mid either.
Over Innsmouth20 votesSend him bot lane, he'll feel right at home with all the other cancer there.
Baron Perenolde4 votesLeave him top where nobody cares about. Bot lane is already plagued by constant 4-5 man ganks, Cait and Vayne.
Over Innsmouth9 votesDon't forget about Ezreal and basically all peel-supports. Oh and Blitzcrank.
I just wanna play Kled man, is that so much to ask?
Baron Perenolde3 votesDon't remind me about Ezreal... That champion tilts me no matter which team he's on. My Ez is the one who never pokes, just hangs back and farms with max range Qs... And blue build just needs to rot.
doombotMECHA3 votesblue build is honestly my most hated part of this game, bar none.
JerulEon2 votesEver since they nerfed protobelt and implemented the new lethality, I haven't seen Jayce and Kennen as often (thank God cuz top was getting stale). Also I don't think Jayce scales well into the late game.
Jet Sett6 votesHe scales pretty well, just not as well as crit based carries. He's always good at wrecking squishies.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votesif any... it was a buff for Jayce. Jayce could and still can build BC first item. With new arpen he scale better now till mid and late. He bully hard with no cost from mana Oo Poke and nuke so much, u cant trade him as melee.
To me it seems like 
divers
are forced out of the top... Tank and ranged dominating the top is so ugly 
Talisid4 votesIf Jayce "outscales" so hard why does his winrate plummet in long games?
His laning is really overpowered but I don't think scaling into late game is a thing that you need to be worried about from Jayce. At least not with the standard build.
Tychusfindlay9195 votesIf Jayce "outscales" so hard why does his winrate plummet in long games?
His laning is really overpowered but I don't think scaling into late game is a thing that you need to be worried about from Jayce. At least not with the standard build.
Jayce doesnt fall off as hard as I would like for being one of, if not League's most notorious top lane bully. He literally makes renekton and pantheon look like pansies. His kit allows him to all in you and half health you while smacking you back to disengage and deal further damage. Its legitimately disgusting.
HateDaddy6 votesIf Jayce "outscales" so hard why does his winrate plummet in long games?
His laning is really overpowered but I don't think scaling into late game is a thing that you need to be worried about from Jayce. At least not with the standard build.
Most people suck with him and don't know how to play him outside of lane phase where he's actually fairly difficult.
Oelyk3 votesHow can we safely nerf them, without destroying their core identities, and what point of the game should we weaken them? How can we ensure that they are not weak thought out the entire game? What do you suggest?
Critmaster Garen8 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T6Eg3uA2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-15T16:16:07.191+0000)
Riot is going to nerf Rylai's. Once they do that juggernauts will stop being so easily kited. And the diver update should be in the mid season so just wait a few months.
Ranged tops are here to stay. Gnar proves that. Might as well get used to it.
"just wait for a few month"
how is it that in a competitive game like this, i always only have half a season to play my champions and climb, while other people have a full season?
doesnt strike me as very fair.
The Yetii Rider3 votesYou play juggernauts anyway, all you need is the Rylai's change and the Garen buff which are both in 6.24. What does the diver update have to do with you?
The problem isn't that the ranged champs themselves are too strong. It's only the laning phase that is an issue. No reason to nerf perfectly healthy champions because they win lane hard. Buffing the divers and their items is better for the game overall.
Critmaster Garen5 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T6Eg3uA2,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2016-11-15T19:55:53.819+0000)
You play juggernauts anyway, all you need is the Rylai's change and the Garen buff which are both in 6.24. What does the diver update have to do with you?
The problem isn't that the ranged champs themselves are too strong. It's only the laning phase that is an issue. No reason to nerf perfectly healthy champions because they win lane hard. Buffing the divers and their items is better for the game overall.
i play mostly juggs, but its still downright stupid that i had to basically stop playing for half a season and wasnt able to climb because theyre waiting month to fix the rylais problem.
its one item, that very very few champions actually really rely on. it wouldnt have been that hard to just revert the passive and work on the champions that got hit too hard within one or two patch cycles.
i mean they just removed t2 boots and didnt really give a shit about what an effect it has on the whole game, in the middle of the season. ive never actually seen follow up balance changes to champions who got hit by the boot enchant removal, or ever mention them again.
i dont udnerstand why they couldnt have pulled the emergency break on rylais within a couple of weeks when it was clear how toxic that item was.
or at least nerf its passive in the same patch as they nerfed swifties.
Volcanuz1 votesWait. Can i get a link to the mentions on diver update? That kinda scares me a little.
EDIT: scare and excite, as a Nocturne Jungle main im happy. But as someone who fking hates diana.. scared.
The Yetii Rider2 votesHasn't been an official declaration yet. I'm confident enough that Divers are next though and they did a Mage update last mid season so it makes sense that divers get updated then.
Ralanr2 votesI'm still hoping for vanguards personally.
Volcanuz1 votesTo be fair im totally fine with divers how they are, they still can dive very well and destroy whatever lane they go into.
But i would like to see nocturne top viable again. And some Wu buffs would be nice, even balances to him would be nice.
The Yetii Rider1 votesPoint of the updates isn't to increase power, it's to provide clearer itemization paths that reward specific play styles and make the champions feel somewhat different from one another. As almost every diver in the game has "gap close and damage" on one of their basic abilities, they definitely need some differentiation.
Nocturne was originally designed as an assassin so his kit is more unique. I still think he could use some work though.
Volcanuz1 votesNocturne is a damage needing champ who has a passive that needs attack speed, and a E that scales but if he maxes it early he loses attack speed and damage.
He is a fucking strange champ to build some times, and the fact his CD's are so freaking huge it makes him a sitting duck if they dash away from his E.
I feel his downfall was mainly due to the fact so many champs now have a dash or escape thats easy to help them avoid his CC. The fact his CC takes a couple seconds before it even goes off is rather stupid. And the damage the E does is so tiny you would think it better if they just removed it.
I love nocturne, there is a reason i have ALL his skins, he is a god in jungle. But just.. not so much with the constant changes happening with items.
The Yetii Rider1 votesNocturne is a damage needing champ who has a passive that needs attack speed, and a E that scales but if he maxes it early he loses attack speed and damage.
He is a fucking strange champ to build some times, and the fact his CD's are so freaking huge it makes him a sitting duck if they dash away from his E.
I feel his downfall was mainly due to the fact so many champs now have a dash or escape thats easy to help them avoid his CC. The fact his CC takes a couple seconds before it even goes off is rather stupid. And the damage the E does is so tiny you would think it better if they just removed it.
I love nocturne, there is a reason i have ALL his skins, he is a god in jungle. But just.. not so much with the constant changes happening with items.
I would think Nocturne would be stronger with the new Edge of Night item.
Volcanuz1 votesEh the active just isn't fast enough and could cause issues with his ult. But i guess it could work.
HazyCloud74 votesOppressive ranged top laners like kennen hurt melee top laners a lot more than Rylai's ever will.
Swiftstrike45 votesI have encountered fewer ranged champions since preseason, but it may be because 
and 
are banned pretty often.
I have noticed the lethality changes have made what was flat armor pen early less problematic.
Large Minivan5 votescough darius cough
Big Lincoln4 votesgive juggienauts some anti-kite options
and buff 
make it melee only
THE RlVER KlNG4 votesName a fighter toplaner or jungler other than Shen (who Riot intentionally dumpstered) that is unplayable or isn't receiving tweaks/buffs in the next couple patches.
Ranged top laners and Vayne screw us all over man, not just a select few. The ranged vs melee discrepancies are still disgusting, but buffing melees will not improve the situation and will only make damage creep all the more frustrating. Nerfs need to happen to range.
Juggernauts are designed to be susceptible to kiting and disengage because they are so ridiculous up close. We can't just start buffing champions for being weak versus the things they were literally designed to be weak against. Anyways, there are plenty of other diver fighters, such as J4, Jax, Irelia, and Vi that are doing plenty fine in this meta.
HateDaddy5 votes[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T6Eg3uA2,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-11-15T20:27:40.448+0000)
Name a fighter toplaner or jungler other than Shen (who Riot intentionally dumpstered) that is unplayable or isn't receiving tweaks/buffs in the next couple patches.
Ranged top laners and Vayne screw us all over man, not just a select few. The ranged vs melee discrepancies are still disgusting, but buffing melees will not imprive the situation and will only make damage creep all the more frustrating. Nerfs need to happen to range.
Juggernauts are designed to be susceptible to kiting and disengage because they are so ridiculous up close. We can't just start buffing champions for being weak versus the things they were literally designed to be weak against. Anyways, there are plenty of other diver fighters, such as J4, Jax, Irelia, and Vi that are doing plenty fine in this meta.
I'm not asking for buffs. And I see the problem being an issue with ranged champions abusing masteries/tanks abusing masteries, which usually gets addressed. Thing is, I'm saying don't wait 4 months to actually address it. Range vs Melee is always an explosive variable and it doesn't take much to tip the scale unreasonably to the favor of one side, but slight adjustments fix it.
And this whole "damage" creep thing was basically nerfed pretty hard with fervor basically being deleted.
Secretlolz4 votesMain top here, who mostly plays Fiora, Maokai, Poppy, Illaoi. (I also got Plat III after the last reset)
This "feeling" people have where they are getting fucked by ranged laners is simply because you insist in fighting them. "Then what the fuck am i supposed to do? Cower under my tower until lane ends?" If you want to lose, yes.
Juggetnauts CAN handle siege and harass. Buy a bit of armor, health regen items and get the correct masteries. Farm melee minions and use abilities to reach ranged ones. If you DONT die during the laning phase these squishy champions will be behind even if having more gold than you by farming.
ManiacalCoyote2 votesNasus can sustain.
Incognonymous3 votesRight now?