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Is critical strike too good and cheap currently?

only zhule··9 votes·1,053 views

Posted a few other topics addressing this and was hoping to get one that got some real ground swell. I want to hear opinion from both people who tend to play ADC's and those who tend to play basically everything else.

I think that as it currently stands, it's way to easy to build critical strike and this had led to certain champions simply outputting WAY to much damage for the game to be healthy. Let me be clear i don't have issue with the stat in theory, but it is currently possible to have a 4 item build that gives you 100% crit chance. item 3031 + item 3087 + item 3094 + item 3508 is the most recent combination i have come across, but it is by no means the only combination that works. This one offers not only 100% crit chance, but 140 bonus AD, 10% movement speed, 60% bonus attack speed, an energized basic attack, 30% CDR, and the ability to literally never run out of mana. Another way to look at this is that since you will ALWAYS crit, you will do 210 more damage (before armor) per attack, you will attack much more often, you have the ability to chase down targets with your bonus 10% movement speed (+33-35 movement speed, basically a bonus pair of boots), the bonus CDR means you can use your abilities much more often, and the infinite mana so long as you auto attack means that you never worry about running out of a resource you need. What makes this issue worse is not so much that you could get to 100% critical strike chance, though that is a very large issue. It's both the ease at which you can get such a high chance, item 3031 + item 3087 is already 50%, and that champions don't really have to give up any thing to get to this point.

I think a lot of people would be more ok with champions that had to pick two of three choices. You can crit often, you can do a lot of damage (high AD), and/or you can attack fast. High crit and high attack speed means that you will often get the effect but each critical may only do 250-300 damage. High damage and high attack speed means good DPS but no sudden moments of "oops" that was 40% of a tanky champions health in one auto. Finally high damage and high crit means you hit like a run away semi truck, but you only attack maybe once every couple seconds (great burst damage, HORRIBLE sustained damage).

If you are still having trouble understanding why this is an issue, imagine an ADC with 200 AD. With item 3031 and 100% crit, this basically means the champion has 500 AD on every auto attack. Give that champion 1.5+ attack speed and you can see how fast they melt through all but the beefiest of tank champions. Would you be ok with the average mage if they could easily get to 500 AP and their average full rotation was up every 4 seconds, plus they never had to worry about mana issues.

16 Comments

FurriesAreHot3 votes

As an ADC main, I think that infinity edge is too big a power spike. If I dare fall behind in lane and can’t afford to rush an IE without gimping my early game by waiting out BF sword, I’m basically forever fucked for lane.

Teridax682 votes

I think one point worth mentioning is that marksmen typically don't go for 100% crit builds, because more efficient builds exist: put another way, common marksman builds provide more power than 500 damage per attack at 200 AD. With the builds most marksmen get, which include Infinity Edge (+ 70 AD) but also usually a Last Whisper Upgrade (+ 50 AD on either) and a Guardian Angel (+ 40 AD), the average marksman will typically have between 250 and 270 AD. When factoring in two Zeal items, an average marksman build will also have 80% crit chance, and give them around total 1.5 attack speed. Without factoring runes, innate steroids, damaging abilities, support items, or the like, that is already a baseline of at least 825 raw DPS. That is absolutely massive. When you then factor in the aforementioned mechanics, that number jumps up to a much higher value, especially if you include more item effects like Statikk Shiv being able to add 400 bonus magic damage to the first attack, Rapid Firecannon adding another 120 on top of that, Runaan's Hurricane practically doubling your DPS against a larger team, and so on.

Point being, marksman itemization as a whole is overstatted, but I agree that crit in particular is also far too cheap. No non-support items are as common at 2600 gold, and those that do exist are far less slot and gold efficient. Marksmen are the most item-dependent class in the game, are meant to curve late, and have typically been kept under control with the most expensive itemization out there: that they now commonly incorporate extremely cheap, yet incredibly powerful items early in their builds is, in my opinion, a major reason why they feel imbalanced, as they reach a massive power spike too quickly for their intended pacing. It is because of this that I also think the intended scaling of marksmen needs to be reevaluated: if marksmen are to remain the designated late-game carry class, then their itemization should be a lot more expensive (to the tune of about 400 extra gold on each of Zeal and Last Whisper's upgrades, plus Guardian Angel). If they are to shift towards a mode of scaling closer to that of other champions, where scaling is more dependent on individual kits than their itemization, then their items should still likely be a tad more expensive, but mainly less slot efficient. Either way, the current situation should change, as too much of the marksman class's power is based on raw stats.

While this may not necessarily go down well with everyone, I also think crit itself as a mechanic doesn't really have a place in the game, as it acts as an amplifier to other stats without adding any real gameplay of its own. Moreover, its pseudo-RNG nature feels dated in the modern state of League, and causes effects like Shiv's proc to feel less fair when they fall to either side of the coin flip. Contrarily to what a lot of players say, it is in fact possible to remove crit and adjust stats to keep marksmen at a similar level of power: to pick the previous example of a marksman with 250 AD, 80% crit chance, 50% bonus crit damage and 1.5 attack speed, removing crit but adding 80 AD and an extra 1 attack speed to their 6-item build (which, it is worth noting, is a ridiculously large amount of raw stats) would keep their baseline damage output at the exact same level, give or take some AD or attack speed depending on individual stats and setups. It is also worth noting that the increased amount of raw AD would also increase their ability scalings, which might require further adjustments. No matter which way you put it, though, marksman itemization focuses way too much on providing raw stats, rather than proper gameplay, so while the above suggestion would allow for the removal of crit while keeping baseline autoattack DPS at the same level, that same baseline is also likely too high.

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

I think one point worth mentioning is that marksmen typically don't go for 100% crit builds, because more efficient builds exist: put another way, common marksman builds provide more power than 500 damage per attack at 200 AD. With the builds most marksmen get, which include Infinity Edge (+ 70 AD) but also usually a Last Whisper Upgrade (+ 50 AD on either) and a Guardian Angel (+ 40 AD), the average marksman will typically have between 250 and 270 AD. When factoring in two Zeal items, an average marksman build will also have 80% crit chance, and give them around total 1.5 attack speed. Without factoring runes, innate steroids, damaging abilities, support items, or the like, that is already a baseline of at least 825 raw DPS. That is absolutely massive. When you then factor in the aforementioned mechanics, that number jumps up to a much higher value, especially if you include more item effects like Statikk Shiv being able to add 400 bonus magic damage to the first attack, Rapid Firecannon adding another 120 on top of that, Runaan's Hurricane practically doubling your DPS against a larger team, and so on.

Point being, marksman itemization as a whole is overstatted, but I agree that crit in particular is also far too cheap. No non-support items are as common at 2600 gold, and those that do exist are far less slot and gold efficient. Marksmen are the most item-dependent class in the game, are meant to curve late, and have typically been kept under control with the most expensive itemization out there: that they now commonly incorporate extremely cheap, yet incredibly powerful items early in their builds is, in my opinion, a major reason why they feel imbalanced, as they reach a massive power spike too quickly for their intended pacing. It is because of this that I also think the intended scaling of marksmen needs to be reevaluated: if marksmen are to remain the designated late-game carry class, then their itemization should be a lot more expensive (to the tune of about 400 extra gold on each of Zeal and Last Whisper's upgrades, plus Guardian Angel). If they are to shift towards a mode of scaling closer to that of other champions, where scaling is more dependent on individual kits than their itemization, then their items should still likely be a tad more expensive, but mainly less slot efficient. Either way, the current situation should change, as too much of the marksman class's power is based on raw stats.

While this may not necessarily go down well with everyone, I also think crit itself as a mechanic doesn't really have a place in the game, as it acts as an amplifier to other stats without adding any real gameplay of its own. Moreover, its pseudo-RNG nature feels dated in the modern state of League, and causes effects like Shiv's proc to feel less fair when they fall to either side of the coin flip. Contrarily to what a lot of players say, it is in fact possible to remove crit and adjust stats to keep marksmen at a similar level of power: to pick the previous example of a marksman with 250 AD, 80% crit chance, 50% bonus crit damage and 1.5 attack speed, removing crit but adding 80 AD and an extra 1 attack speed to their 6-item build (which, it is worth noting, is a ridiculously large amount of raw stats) would keep their damage output at the exact same level, give or take some AD or attack speed depending on individual stats and setups. It is also worth noting that the increased amount of raw AD would also increase their ability scalings, which might require further adjustments. No matter which way you put it, though, marksman itemization focuses way too much on providing raw stats, rather than proper gameplay, so while the above suggestion would allow for the removal of crit while keeping baseline autoattack DPS at the same level, that same baseline is also likely too high.

I think the answer is either to cut the amount of crit on items, or as you said remove it all together while increasing certain other stats to compensate for the change.

The issue is not always that every ADC is building 100% crit, since you are right most players are going to avoid that and have some other items that are more useful to their team, 80% will serve the same purpose. I also chose 200 AD because it really helps to highlight the issue. If it was just 200 AD no one would bat much of an eye, it high enough to do good damage if left alone for a few seconds but low enough that you aren't just nuking someone down before they can react. 500 AD on the other hand is insane, hell most people would call 500 AP unfair and that power is gated behind cooldowns.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I think that Crit itself does the wrong thing. It should be a tank-busting stat, not a stat that boosts Marksmen's damage against everyone equally. They already have AD for that. Crit should apply an armor debuff, not bonus damage.

PopcornBunni1 votes

Crit is both too cheap and has output randomness as a huge issue for a game played competitively or even recreationally.

I can't say off hand what a good value for the stat should be, but for the randomness problem, it could be solved by making crit % stack up on a target until that % overflows 100, resulting in a crit.

So 30% crit chance would add 30, then 60, then 90% crit build up attacking a particular target, then the next hit would crit and the remaining 20% would overflow. That way, it ensures the % crit chance will always be an accurate measure of how many crits you'll get, as well as add delay to adc damage.

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

Crit is both too cheap and has output randomness as a huge issue for a game played competitively or even recreationally.

I can't say off hand what a good value for the stat should be, but for the randomness problem, it could be solved by making crit % stack up on a target until that % overflows 100, resulting in a crit.

So 30% crit chance would add 30, then 60, then 90% crit build up attacking a particular target, then the next hit would crit and the remaining 20% would overflow. That way, it ensures the % crit chance will always be an accurate measure of how many crits you'll get, as well as add delay to adc damage.

I feel like that doesn't solve the issue of many ADC's builds having 50-100% crit between 2-4 items, with the average being 80% with 3 items. normal + crit + crit+ crit + crit+ normal almost feels worse then having a 20% chance they will fail the RNG and only crit once between 6 attacks.

Sonasaurous1 votes

Critical strike is, in itself, a "fair" enough stat. The "random" element of bonus damage should make it a risky, but rewarding, stat to invest in.

Key word: Should.

Critical strike chance modifiers are what makes critical strike damage overpowered. For the amount of bonus damage crit gives, and how easily that damage can become overwhelming when every auto or even every other auto deals crit, critical chance is the stat that should be really looked at. Should ADCs really be allowed to build even 50% or higher crit chance so every other auto attack is basically a guaranteed critical hit? If ADCs are supposed to deal damage over time, why give them easy access to guaranteed burst?

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T09jFqEz,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-29T19:21:56.435+0000)

Critical strike is, in itself, a "fair" enough stat. The "random" element of bonus damage should make it a risky, but rewarding, stat to invest in.

Key word: Should.

Critical strike chance modifiers are what makes critical strike damage overpowered. For the amount of bonus damage crit gives, and how easily that damage can become overwhelming when every auto or even every other auto deals crit, critical chance is the stat that should be really looked at. Should ADCs really be allowed to build even 50% or higher crit chance so every other auto attack is basically a guaranteed critical hit? If ADCs are supposed to deal damage over time, why give them easy access to guaranteed burst?

Would you accept 50-55% crit chance with 4 items built? Like item 3031 + item 3087 + item 3094 + item 3085 gives you 55% crit chance (in other words half the crit chance on all items that have it). You can still build towards the bonus, and you can still do a lot of damage when you do crit.... BUT it's a lot harder to get to that critical mass you need for insane levels of DPS.

Sonasaurous1 votes

Unpopular opinion, but I honestly believe that the higher your critical chance, the LESS damage your critical hits should be allowed to deal. Because nothing is more annoying then getting crit to death in 2-3 hits because crit as a stat has become too reliable.

Rathar Dashing3 votes

I think the higher your crit chance, the less damage your non-crits should do. Thus turning your rng against you. Theoretically you could do this by taking 5 AD away from the damage crit items. And move 5% attack speed from SS to RFC. I mean come on, it's the "rapid fire" cannon.

Sonasaurous1 votes

This also works. Basically, if you build critical chance, you should get some kind of damage reduction as a trade off for building into what's supposed to be a "high risk, high reward" build path.

Sasogwa1 votes

Is it really a crit problem, or is it a marksman problem? I don't see tryndamere,yi, yasuo spammed and dominating games; but I see crit adc's spammed and dominating games.

Kaìju1 votes

They aren't ranged and therefore as safe

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

Is it really a crit problem, or is it a marksman problem? I don't see tryndamere,yi, yasuo spammed and dominating games; but I see crit adc's spammed and dominating games.

bit of A bit of B. crit is a problem in that it's easy to build to you don't have to trade anything to get it, imagine if tanks/bruisers could get HP/resistance while also getting attack damage "guess i'll trade 10-15 armor for +50 AD/AP". The other side is of course that ADC's have the advantage of range which comes with a higher level of safety.

Ycagel Legacy1 votes

"Late game class".

Spike with 2 items, even 1 for some (Kog'maw anyone ?).

Betràyed1 votes

Remeber in season 4 when having 60% crit was considered op and crazy? yeah...lol. 100% crit builds are basically normal to see now

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