So, are people ready to agree with me when I say Riot puts money above all else?

Niyumi·Nov 9, 2017·15 votes·761 views

Because if you think the whole BE conversion wasn't a giant scheme to get players to buy RP to get champs... well, I got news for ya.

63 Comments

QuephaNov 9, 20173 votes

Explain to me how completely removing the cost of runes doesn't make this a net benefit to new players trying to unlock champions.

Not to mention that you probably gain BE faster than you used to gain IP.

General Esdeath Nov 9, 20172 votes

No, you gain it WAY slower.

QuephaNov 9, 20172 votes

You lie.

General Esdeath Nov 9, 20171 votes

You only gain it from a level up, meaning if you're past level 20 or so, you gain it at a slower rate. You get to cash in once you level up and you have to deal with those choices for a whole level.

QuephaNov 9, 20172 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Jh3Mtzu6-blue-essence-earn-rates-learning-the-numbers-with-carl-and-henrietta?comment=00040002

When Carl hits level 40, he would have earned ~8,309 IP in the old system. Now he will have 8,460 blue essence (if every roll was bad which is 0.002%), 10,310 blue essence (the average rolls), or 13,380 blue essence (if every roll was perfect).

When Henrietta hits level 40, she would have earned ~9,383 IP. Now she will have 8,460 blue essence (if every roll was bad which is 0.002%), 10,310 blue essence (the average rolls), or 13,380 blue essence (if every roll was perfect).

That's more. If you play 12 games a day on average (only pros and full time streamers achieve this) then you are gaining more. If you play 2 games a day on average (most players are much closer to this) then you gain MUCH more.

You can say it's slower all you want, but your words don't magically change reality.

General Esdeath Nov 9, 20171 votes

Oh man what a great example, too bad they didn't show the math for every other aspect of the new system.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7budg2/the_math_behind_the_new_blue_essence_changes_and/

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7bqrou/explanations_on_why_the_be_system_is_a_major/

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7buybe/stop_using_well_you_dont_have_to_buy_runes/

So, I'll say it real slow for you again because you seem slow.

The new system is worse for everyone except those who have played since beta or purchased RP to save IP for years and you gain BE way slower under this new system

QuephaNov 9, 20171 votes

First post completely ignores first win of the day which is going to account for something like 30-50% of your xp gains if you aren't a full time streamer.

Second post isn't about the math and is mainly depending on cherry picked anecdotal evidence about a single level up.

Third post is just whining about rune refunds.

You have been fooled by reddit's "if it has upvotes it must be right!" mentality.

General Esdeath Nov 10, 20171 votes

First Win of the day always existed, new system and old. And the new system was supposed to fix that to increase the gain overall.

My friend you've been fooled by the mentality of "Riot is always right" even they have admitted their mistakes in the past. Such as the KogMaw rework that was reverted.

QuephaNov 10, 20171 votes

First win of the day bonus was heavily buffed. It used to be worth about 1.8 games worth of IP and now it's worth practically 3 games worth of XP.

General Esdeath Nov 10, 20171 votes

Buffed? It gave IP, now it gives XP. That's a change, not a buff/nerf. It gives exp for 3 games because we no longer get IP from games, only levels. I'd prefer getting 100 BE or something each day from it.

RusindoNov 9, 20173 votes

https://www.polygon.com/2015/12/16/10326320/riot-games-now-owned-entirely-by-tencent

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20173 votes

Providing a link implying that because Tencent now owns Riot they must now be running Riot... that is very misleading.

That article is two whole years old. Tencent has owned Riot for a while and nothing serious changed except what the designers and balance teams announced and planned to do on their own.

Tencent leaves Riot to handle their design decisions and balance changes on their own. They have been hands-off with management of Riot so far, as it has brought them plenty of profits anyways.

Don't encourage conspiracy theories, you will only hurt the cause of making the game balanced and fun, because you will make people act in ways that Riot will not care to listen or pay attention to.

NiyumiNov 9, 20174 votes

Thing about publishers and parent companies... yeah, sure, they leave creative control in the hands of the studio, but they dictate how much money to both spend and make. As long as the company meets both of those numbers, they leave them alone.

Now, when a company doesn't make enough money, that's when the parent company comes in and starts dictating changes and removing staff that won't comply. Notice the lack of events this year? And how much more hype is going into skins lately? The ban bot being upgraded and people being banned in huge numbers for silly things (getting them to make new accounts and re-buy skins / champs)? All those things happened for a reason.

So, Tencent is what we call a conglomerate. They buy out all kinds of companies, and take a good portion the money those companies make for themselves, to line the pockets of greedy little Ma (Tencent's CEO) and fund his other investments. Riot is just a tool to them, and they don't give a fuck about the game itself -- they only care about how much money it brings in. As prices for things rise throughout the world, the quota for Riot also goes up. So Riot has to find a way to spend less money developing the game and/or milk the playerbase more, or Tencent will make some changes or potentially shut down the company.

Why Beck sold the company to Tencent in the first place is what bothers me. The game was doing well, so I don't quite get it. He says he's all about quality, but I don't really believe him.

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20172 votes

With this model you have explained perfectly how a corrupt and greedy system would work. But again you have provided no proof that connects Riot and Tencent to this model.

You can't just describe a possibility and then assume it is true without first proving it. That is how lunatics reason. Just because it is possible does not make it true. For example - you could be a night watchman working the late shift at a mall and using your phone to check the boards. Does me describing that possibility and explaining how it could be true make it automatically true? No, it's possible but it hasn't been proven.

NiyumiNov 9, 20171 votes

Okay, you want proof? Tencent owns Riot.

Do you think they'd just buy the company and leave it alone? Fuck no. Ma bought the company to make money off it. If you don't believe me, and wanna prove I'm wrong, then go fucking research Tencent and Ma. Prove to me without a doubt he's a good person. Then do that for Beck and Merril.

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Okay, you want proof? Tencent owns Riot.

That is an objective fact, but it is not proof of malicious game design. There is no connecting fact provided to prove causation of that to malicious game design in this case.

Do you think they'd just buy the company and leave it alone? Fuck no. Ma bought the company to make money off it. If you don't believe me, and wanna prove I'm wrong, then go fucking research Tencent and Ma. Prove to me without a doubt he's a good person. Then do that for Beck and Merril.

You're the one claiming they are all greedy corporate scumbags. It's your claim to prove, not mine to disprove. This is how logic works, if you want me or anyone else to be convinced to believe you then you have to back your claim up.

NiyumiNov 9, 20171 votes

I've given you plenty of evidence before. If you're goinna choose to ignore it, go ahead.

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20172 votes

Edit: Where? In this thread? Or somewhere else? That ain't gonna cut it.

For the sake of all the people who might read this who haven't seen the evidence you are referring to, lets pretend I have Alzheimer's Disease, or a short memory, whichever you prefer. You should try to prove it here.

You can't just imply that something has been proven and then expect people to take what you say at face value.

DU BaymaxNov 9, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Okay, you want proof?

proceeds to offer not even a sliver of proof

ModWulf HelhammerNov 9, 20174 votes

"Welcome to A Sciela post, where everything is made up and the facts don't matter!"

PrismalDawnNov 9, 20172 votes

Wow a multi million dollar company finds a way to make money. SURPRISING

Christopher RPhNov 9, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Wow a multi million dollar company finds a way to make money. SURPRISING

Only in Capitalist America would a consumer defend corporate greed. It must be patriotic.

PrismalDawnNov 9, 20171 votes

You work your whole life to achieve something big and instead of congratulating someone you look down upon them?

That right there is communism, it will never work.

General Esdeath Nov 9, 20171 votes

Disagreeing with a company who invests into e-sports for money and says "We don't need people to buy from us" then tries to make us buy from them isn't communism, it's called disagreeing.

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20173 votes

Only on the internet would somebody find others to join them in their conspiracy theory.

NiyumiNov 9, 20173 votes

Wow, a multi-billion dollar company finds ways to further nickle and dime people. DISGUSTING! (At least if you ask me)

The part that surprises me and makes me sad is how people buy into the scams.

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20172 votes

And lizard people are ruling our planet and the government is brainwashing us yadda yadda yadda. We've hard it all before dude. If you can't prove it then lay off the bullshit please.

NiyumiNov 9, 20172 votes

What more proof do you need than what I've given specifically to you in all the time I've been on the boards? Do you think the BE system is actually -helping- players?

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20172 votes

More vague statements implying that you have proof, but still you show no proof.

You see smoke in the sky and look to the nearest house and blame them for it despite not knowing for certain where the smoke is actually coming from.

Whether the new BE system is helping players or not, you cannot just assume that it is because of greed and assume that it was made harmful intentionally. Even if it is harming players, designs have flaws, people make mistakes, and sometimes people just fail to predict the results of their work. You're assuming malicious intent without any real direct proof of it.

Correlation does not equal causation, you are being superstitious about a game company. That is silly, and you should stop.

NiyumiNov 9, 20171 votes

So, say you're in a court, and there's a case going on. People bring all kinds of claims and evidence that HEAVILY points towards their argument being true... do you just sit there and call bullshit the entire time? 'cause you'd be thrown out. When you dispute their argument, you provide counter evidence. You don't just sit there and call them some superstitious conspiracy theorist.

When I see smoke in the sky, I look to find its source, and I happen to know how to do that because I've had experience with fires, right? So, when I say I've done work in the gaming industry and I know how things work behind the scenes, I know what greed looks like, and I know what it looks like when someone is exploiting their playerbase.

And uh, let me tell you: With all the fucking planning that goes into even the tiniest little thing, there is no way the entire IP > BE conversion and the system surrounding it was accidental in any way. It was thoroughly planned out and iterated on so many times you'd have a hard time believing it. Everything relating to that system was entirely intentional, even the dramatically slower progress.

Now sure, I could be wrong. But if you look at all the things Riot does, it's just silly to believe they're anything but greedy, especially when you compare them to other companies.

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

So, say you're in a court, and there's a case going on. People bring all kinds of claims and evidence that HEAVILY points towards their argument being true... do you just sit there and call bullshit the entire time? 'cause you'd be thrown out. When you dispute their argument, you provide counter evidence. You don't just sit there and call them some superstitious conspiracy theorist.

All you have to go on here is the suspicion of a motive. You suspect that Riot had motive to screw over their players. But just the possibility of that being the motive does not automatically make it true that it was the motive. You still have no proof that that was their motive, all you have to go on is the suspicion of it.

When I see smoke in the sky, I look to find its source, and I happen to know how to do that because I've had experience with fires, right? So, when I say I've done work in the gaming industry and I know how things work behind the scenes, I know what greed looks like, and I know what it looks like when someone is exploiting their playerbase.

Have you worked at Riot? Do you actually know how they do things? Or are you just assuming based on what you know of OTHER work environments. From what I've seen their company culture is vastly different from other gaming companies. From the outside you claim that it looks like exploitation, but you don't have the ability to see inside the company to tell if they are making a decision to exploit players.

You act as if all Rioters are greedy corporate scum. Even if a few of them might be greedy the rest of them aren't.

#There are a lot of people who work for Riot. Many of whom care deeply about this game and worked their asses off this year to bring us new features. Show some fucking respect.

And uh, let me tell you: With all the fucking planning that goes into even the tiniest little thing, there is no way the entire IP > BE conversion and the system surrounding it was accidental in any way. It was thoroughly planned out and iterated on so many times you'd have a hard time believing it. Everything relating to that system was entirely intentional, even the dramatically slower progress.

'And uh let me tell you: With all the fucking planning that goes into beating the soviets in the space race, there is no way that the government did not plan to fake the moon landing. And if they planned it then they could certainly have done it.' This is precisely how conspiracy theories work. If you look hard enough you're going to find 'proof' for anything. At some point you need to let go of the delusions.

Now sure, I could be wrong. But if you look at all the things Riot does, it's just silly to believe they're anything but greedy, especially when you compare them to other companies.

"All of the things?" You've only mentioned the BE changes at the start of this season. Stop making vague references to evidence that you haven't actually provided. It doesn't lend your claims any credibility.

NiyumiNov 9, 20171 votes

Here's how you know what goes on inside Riot: Go to whatever browser you wanna use > Type in "glassdoor.com" > Search Riot Games > Read anonymous reviews and information from Riot employees.

And if you're just goinna be a little troll with your friends, I'm done. If you wanna be exploited, you go ahead and do it. Don't let me stop you from shoving your head up Riot's ass. But, when this game goes to shit, I'm goinna laugh my ass off and say I told you so.

This isn't the first time you've tried to derail my threads, and honestly it's harassment at this point. So... You can have a constructive argument and actually bring evidence to the table, or you can call me a conspiracy theorist and I'm reporting you. Your choice.

ModWulf HelhammerNov 9, 20171 votes

You know, you might want to keep up to date on your "facts": https://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Riot-Games-EI_IE247538.11,21.htm

They have a 3.9 out of 5 stars, 79% of people working their would recommend to a friend, and a 93% CEO approval rating, and was ranked 18th (out of 50) of the best places to work in 2016.

And for someone who loves to say facts this and facts that, you provide very little of your favored medicine.

NiyumiNov 9, 20172 votes

Now why don't you actually -read- some of those? Lot of people don't like it -- though it's easy to make fake accounts to inflate your rating, and a lot of companies do that too.

ModWulf HelhammerNov 9, 20171 votes

Then couldn't it be just as easy to make fake accounts to post bad reviews? Or simply disgruntled employees upset they got let go? Yeah, they're not perfect, but are you really saying that they created enough fake reviews to counteract any negative ones they got, to such an extent that those negative ones are basically completely covered up?

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20171 votes

I concur, lack of evidence to prove innocence does not serve as sufficient evidence for guilt.

Also they ignored your point about it being ranked 18th of the 50 best places to work.

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20171 votes

At this point you're just looking for excuses to cling to your beliefs.

It's plausible that they could have made fake accounts, but plausibility does not mean it actually happened. It just means that it could possibly have happened.

HalcyonDwellerNov 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Here's how you know what goes on inside Riot: Go to whatever browser you wanna use > Type in "glassdoor.com" > Search Riot Games > Read anonymous reviews and information from Riot employees.

No need for me to respond to this point. Wolf King already addressed it.

This isn't the first time you've tried to derail my threads, and honestly it's harassment at this point. So... You can have a constructive argument and actually bring evidence to the table, or you can call me a conspiracy theorist and I'm reporting you. Your choice.

I believe this is only the second time we have argued about this topic, although I might be mistaken on that.

It's really not harassment though. I have nothing against you as a person.

I simply have a problem with it when you rudely disrespect the people who work very hard to make this game fun for all of us to play.

Oh and I guess I have a problem with being personally attacked and treated like a fool, so with regards to this next bit yeah I took it personally.

And if you're just goinna be a little troll with your friends, I'm done. If you wanna be exploited, you go ahead and do it. Don't let me stop you from shoving your head up Riot's ass. But, when this game goes to shit, I'm goinna laugh my ass off and say I told you so.

Ok, I'll be waiting. Good luck with that holier than thou / told you so superior attitude. I'm sure that treating people in this manner will take you far in life.

ModWulf HelhammerNov 9, 20172 votes

Oh look. Another tin foil post from the guy who thinks every game company is evil and hates you.

You know there's a dev post where they actually break down the math, right? And that the only real thing players have to spend IP/BE on is champions?

WariosNov 9, 20172 votes

I am gonna guess the OP is one of those rare people who go to work everyday, and come payday, tells his boss, just make my cheque 50% of what I earned. I really don't like to earn more income, even if there is someone willing to pay more.

Christopher RPhNov 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I am gonna guess the OP is one of those rare people who go to work everyday, and come payday, tells his boss, just make my cheque 50% of what I earned. I really don't like to earn more income, even if there is someone willing to pay more.

He doesn't need to do that. His check is already 50% of what he actually earned, you idiot.

DrCyanideNov 9, 20172 votes

It's like you didn't read Riot's statement on this.

FACT: With the old runes Riot made money on people buying Champions/IP Boosts with RP, which let those players spend IP on Runes. FACT: Making Runes completely free cuts off those sources of revenue completely. FACT: BE only being obtained from Leveling/Hextech Chests/Honor Capsules was intended to slow the rate of getting in-game currency, encouraging similar levels of buying champions with RP as existed before.

If you're going to claim this is a way to get more money you'd need figures on how much was spent on Champions and IP Boosts before and compare that to how much is spent on Champions after.

StrawberrycocoaNov 9, 20171 votes

Anyone who thinks ANY game company will make decisions that reduce profit margins is a naive fool.

That being said though, the Essence Emporium is total bait to get you to burn it all on shinies instead of new champs. But that's on the player if they spend their currency that way.

NiyumiNov 9, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Anyone who thinks ANY game company will make decisions that reduce profit margins is a naive fool.

I present to you: Nintendo under Iwata. Massively profitable business deals from the mobile market were given to him, and he turned them down because he wanted to do what was right -- lost a lot of money that way, didn't he? Still one of the most successful gaming companies.

With Iwata and Yamauchi gone now though... there's no one to hold the greed in check, and now Nintendo is getting shitty too.

And then I also present to you: Lots of little indie devs that make a game for fun or because it's something they want to do (and put a TON of effort into it), not because it's some money-making scam.

NaHypochloriteNov 9, 20171 votes

Honestly, I don't mind giving Riot money in exchange for cool skins or other goodies. But to make it so that we need to spend money on champions as well is just too much. They risk alienating their player base here.

NiyumiNov 9, 20173 votes

Oh but see, this is just Riot testing how far the "very intelligent and aware" playerbase will let them push. They've been progressively pulling away from quality and favoring income over the last few years with no one even minding (minus a few, like me, who people just hate and ignore), and now that they're owned by China, it's about to get a lot, lot worse.

But no one will do anything about it, and this game will turn into another Korean grindfest or something like Warframe where it takes weeks to do anything if you don't pay through the nose.

NaHypochloriteNov 9, 20171 votes

At least people are pointing it out on the forums and discussing it. Plenty of folks are quite unhappy about the changes, myself included.

NiyumiNov 9, 20171 votes

Yeah, and that ultimately doesn't matter, because after a couple weeks (if even that) they'll give up and stop complaining, and Riot can just ignore them. Unless there's some massive boycotting of RP sales (which doesn't happen, since whales make up a majority of F2P cash shop sales) or droves of people quitting... it's just goinna get worse.

NaHypochloriteNov 9, 20171 votes

Call me naive, but I'm still hoping that they'll see reason and fix the system while we're still in Preseason. If not... well, maybe it's time to find a new game to play.

NiyumiNov 9, 20171 votes

Oh I'm secretly hoping they're not as totally fucking greedy as I think they are... but I really doubt anything will change. At best, we'll see like a 5% increase in BE gain or you'll get a small, flat amount in your capsules, and they'll call it good.