@Riot For how long are you going to keep ignoring Sona?

Ahristocats··30 votes·5,305 views

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Master tier Sona OTPs can no longer get back to master. She one of the most garbage champion in this elo i ever saw, even Aatrox was better than her at least before this patch. NO ONE PLAYS HER HERE, i spent my entire time looking at EUW master tier ladder only to not find a single sona main.

I'm not expecting anything from this post, The Board isn't playing in master, the board also doesn't give a fuck about Sona even if they complain about being autofilled support and not finding a fun support, except when she's gamebreaking because she was buffed despite being strong in low elo then the main page is filled with Sona thread asking for her to be gutted.

So am i allowed to ask: WHEN ON EARTH ARE YOU GOING TO REWORK THIS CHAMPION? i'm so triggered to see evelynn and urgot being reworked when they are already played in all elo (yes there are urgot mains in master and challenger) then mordekaiser is being next and no offense to the mordekaiser mains that want him to be reworked but he is also strong, played in lcs, and is incredibly fun to play. And then we have sona, sitting as the worst support ever created right now and no one is going to understand because they have no idea how it is to play sona in master. The numbers are low as hell until you have 300 AP, she has the worst base stats, very low impact spells you nerfed the width of her ulti in season 4 and then she never came back anymore in lcs except when she was "buffed" ending up with 37% win rate in lcs and 58% win rate in plat+.

she was picked only for her ulti, a spell stunning 4 people for 1.5 seconds you have no supports that can do this then you nerfed the width and now it can hit like 1 or 2 people at best

Her gameplay is now feast or famin, i did some duoQ with Colzaor she doesn't build sightstone anymore, just rush sheen and hextech and try to cheese the lane to snowball how the fuck do you want us to climb with that?

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You guys nerfed into oblivion all her numbers, her passive damage, her Q damage, her W healing, her E movemen speed, her R width you left nothing for the sake of no-counterplay spells and Aura. speaking of aura why the fuck is this still allowed after 7 years? nothing is wrong with Auras, supports in dota2 have all auras. Rubick has an Aura increasing magic resistance by 10/14/18/22% BUT A KIT REVOLVING AROUND AURAS CANNOT EXIST IN A DAMN GAME , it ends up non-interactive, with little counterplay, forcing sona to have little numbers, no one becomes happy with that

So aside the balance problems what else Sona suffers from? from the same thing maokai suffers making him reworked during the tank rework

"Low Satisfaction " i don't remember anything bringing satisfaction in sona's gamplay, except one-shoting a squishy champion with an AP build, but i don't think i signed to play that, if i wanted to oneshot someone i would just play Annie Syndra Veigar Rengar Khazix

"Generically Powerful" no niche, only viable when op becoming better than every enchenters at everything

"Rewarding Gameplay Mastery - As one of the lowest Mastery champions as far as win rate improvement over games played, there's very little reward offered to players who take the time to learn Maokai’s current kit" tell me it isn't true for sona

So what should be done? a sion lvl of rework to be viable at all elos None of those spells should remain like it is. The concept of an AURA support should be entirely deleted. Sona should be around the theme of Music and quiteness as she is mute, nothing forces riot to make her an aura support. Last time i checked Rhapsody in HON works perfectly fine around the music theme without having auras (except one)

i can't think of a single spell that should remain like they are, cresendo has 0 uniqueness, let's not talk about her Q and W, and E is a generic bonus of movement speed that has no down time making it completly braindead. Her passive is cool and great, but it suggests a kit with 3 spammable abilities which is by design a bad idea

Because yes let me be clear on a last point: no champion should be designed around low skill , there is a difference between skillcap and skillfloor ,look at warwick rework. He's still a beginner champion, his skillcap is low. But his skillfloor has been increased with his new Q and E decision making, the difference is that warwick is still a champion that you can pick up easily but you still need to think when you play him Those "noob champions" should stop being a thing, ghostcrawler said that reworking those champions to be harder to play to balance them at all elos will make them lose their popularity, WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT, do you have any idea of who're the most played champions? Yasuo Riven LeeSin Thresh , and they aren't played because they're broken Lee sin is broken in master with 55% win rate and top 3 popularity with 3 or 4k games played. Even myself i played a lot of Lee sin because when you're autofilled jungle you have to pick the best to win which is why he's picked so much But in plat+, or below lee sin is perfectly balanced which is why he isn't nerfed yet. So are you going to tell me that people pick lee because he's broken? Low skill champions won't lose their popularity if they're reworked to take more skill, we already saw it with Darius Ryze their mains are still playing them People want to play fun champions, with fun kits and themes, they don't care if your champion takes skill or not, trash yasuo mains with 30% win rate on him will still play yasuo no matter what, i personally prefer high skill champions and yet i play Sona, why? because i love the music theme, her resonating voice and her personality.

AND speaking of her voice do not remove it, i saw a lot of people telling me that Sona's voice should be removed because summoners are no longer canon, idc about summoners being canon or not, find a way to make telepathy canon in sona's lore (which is outdated) because removing her voice is just unimagineable

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114 Comments

Dominick Destine7 votes

I tend to agree, I used to play Sona a lot but she's complete garbo now.

Yuzuki Yukarin7 votes

I mean, the simplest and easiest way to #MakeSonaGreatAgain is of course to revert her to pre-Patch 3.14 and then BUFF her kit from there. The problem is that there are too many Rito employees that personally want Sona to fail: Meddler, Jag, Fearless, Katey Khaos, Slumber Jack et cetera infinitum. Fearless repeatedly stated during 4.13 PBE cycle and the several months before that if it turned out to be a failure, Rito would not hesitate to REVERT it completely.

It was a failure, they refused to admit it was a failure, hit Sona with additional nerfs as if to tell the players, "See? We nerfed her. Clearly we wouldn't nerf something unless it was a success, right? We TOTALLY aren't doing this to cover our own asses and falsely make it look like we succeeded."

Fearless' FINAL words regarding Sona were and I quote, "We have not forgotten about Sona. She has not been abandoned and we have plans in testing to buff her." Not only did she NOT receive buffs(she never has in her entire patch history), she was forgotten and abandoned until 6.14. Which despite not making her playable, Meddler still went out of his way to personally nerf her MID-FUCKING-PATCH, just so make certain her history of NEVER having a single patch that was a true buff, not be broken.

SwaT 106 votes

all of these nerfs yet she can delete 60% of my hp after buying lich bane?...

Ahristocats17 votes

depends on the time she took to get lichbane

did she skip sightstone and get lichbane quickly? then yes she's going to delete you, and you're also going to delete her because she's a 325 ms 900 hp support that is a freekill for everyone, song of celerity bonus ms is trash until late game. and she has no wards

did she take time to get lichbane? she's not going to do anything, your base stats will be enough to survive to her and she's going to lack of the utility of redemption and solari, and you can negate her with hexdrinker

feast or famin as its finest

SOLOQSUPERHERO5 votes

[{quoted}](name=SwaT 10,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RnN9Vpaw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-09T14:15:15.231+0000)

all of these nerfs yet she can delete 60% of my hp after buying lich bane?...

Honestly I think that just clarifies how UNHEALTHY her kit is. Her biggest thing to watch out for is her Q passive proc combo with a lich bane if she buys it...and then she can be very easily instagibbed when she's doing that.

chipndip11 votes

"This guy's right!? Better downvote him anyway."

Miku Hime sama7 votes

He's not right though. Mathematically under OPTIMAL circumstances, Sona's full combo does less damage than half of ANIVIA'S base HP, before MR and reductions. Sona has less damage potential than every other support in the game, hence why artificial scaling items are mandatory buys. Hence why they have been since Patch 4.13.

chipndip11 votes

"Her biggest thing to watch out for is her Q passive proc combo WITH A LICH BANE IF SHE BUYS IT...

Excluding Flash + Ult, that is the biggest thing to watch out for in Sona's kit.

LankPants6 votes

Sona's Q/passive does about the same damage as Nami's Q/W before any E enhanced AAs.

A Nami who builds like A Sona ends up having more damage than Sona.

chipndip12 votes

No duh. This isn't comparative to Nami, so wtf are you bringing it up for?

THE BIGGEST THING TO WATCH OUT FOR IN SONA'S KIT. It's a really simple sentence, guys.

Pika3103 votes

Last I checked, Spellblade wasn't anywhere in SONA'S KIT, but I'll humor you and check again...

Nope, no skills or abilities named Spellblade. I did however find an item with it..., but literally anyone can buy an item, so surely you can't be referring to that.

chipndip11 votes

Are you ALL this stupid?

The biggest thing to watch out for in regards to Sona, save Flash + Ult, is Flash + Q while holding Lich. Otherwise, it's "diving near Sona when she can just Powerchord W you". Why? Because Sona's damage is frontloaded into one key moment, rather than spaced between spells.** I DON'T CARE WHO DOES MORE OVERALL DAMAGE.** This isn't fucking comparative to other champs. We already know Sona's actual damage output by raw numbers is low. If that was the point, I wouldn't be calling you guys stupid.

Miku Hime sama1 votes

It's pretty clear that we're just mocking you at this point.

You don't want to compare Sona to other champs? Fine, I'll humor that narrow-mindedness. Sona's "key moment" is factually less damage than herself pre-4.13. Not only did Rito nerf her overall dps, they nerfed her "moment of power" as well, leaving a character that was double-nerfed. A classic Rito specialty.

chipndip12 votes

What I said in this whole conversation has literally nothing to do with ANY OF THESE THINGS.

Look at the initial guy's comment: The biggest thing to watch out for is her flash + Q + Lich if she buys it. The point is that "Hey, this champ's main draw is basically just buying Lich and blasting its damage at people assuming she bought it". Is that NOT what she's infamous for? Is this interaction not the reason why people blindly think that Sona's potential damage is "through the roof" when it isn't? The guy even said that if she does, she's squishy as hell. His comment isn't saying it's strong to do at all, and neither is mine supporting his. It's actually a bad state to be in as a support when you're reliant on massive solo lane buys. Still, he's pretty much right in saying that, hey, this champ's core kit is unhealthy and revolves around rather unhealthy game play of yesteryear. Outside of her flash + ult, the main thing that's notable on this champ is flash + Q. Front-loading a ton of unavoidable damage into someone's face is literally half of Sona's identity in the community at this point. How is that "false"?

Now people are coming up and bringing in Nami into it. Why? How? What on Teemo's Earth makes Nami worth mentioning here? The original statement or my statement saying he was right has literally zero to do with anyone but Sona, but someone mentions Nami. For what reason?

THEN someone brings up how her damage is lower than that of other supports. Once again, fucking why? None of this is comparative to anyone else in the damn game.

Now YOU'RE bringing up nerfs. WHO THE FUCK CARES!?

Miku Hime sama1 votes

{quoted}

That is indeed all true and we both know it's all been said before, but without reiterating it as you did here, people still misinterpret it, probably intentionally. I can't say that the original poster really looked at it that way, he never bothered to clarify his point further.

As far back as I can remember in season 3, Sona has ALWAYS been compared very closely to Nami as Generalist supports. Their kits are so closely identical to each other, it has almost always come down to, "Which currently has better numbers?" in regards to who was on top. Pre-3.14 people would say, "Why bother with Nami if you can pick Sona?" Post-3.14 people would say, "Why bother with Sona, if you can pick Nami?" Simply because Sona received more and harsher nerfs that patch than Nami. It's very difficult to discuss Sona without discussing Nami when their fates have always been so closely linked.

As an aggro support, it's only natural that Sona's damage numbers be compared to other supports. Now that she's been pigeonholed into a failed "burst mage" design, it's even more natural to compare her to real burst mages that frequent bot lane, such as Brand & Lux. Sona is not and has never been a defensive support, the noobs advocating stacking Windspeaker effects inherently have a lack of knowledge regarding true Sona playstyle & unfortunately these were the bronze scrubs that Fearless valued most when he dumpstered her, being B1/S5 himself & having never actually played Sona before taking on the project.

I mention the nerfs to her because they are the very backbone of the discussion. The reason Sona is forced to cheese with Lich Bane is a direct result of those nerfs. The reason Sona has disappeared from high elo is a direct result of those nerfs. The reason Sona's kit is unhealthy and unbalanceable is a direct result of those nerfs. If Rito were to just revert her to pre-4.13 and buff her from there, she would finally reappear in Master+ yet again.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miku Hime sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RnN9Vpaw,comment-id=000000010001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-22T00:15:43.679+0000)

That is indeed all true and we both know it's all been said before, but without reiterating it as you did here, people still misinterpret it, probably intentionally. I can't say that the original poster really looked at it that way, he never bothered to clarify his point further.

It was self-evident in the post. "Most notable thing" =/= "Omg Sona's SO strong here's why number1 be-"

As far back as I can remember in season 3, Sona has ALWAYS been compared very closely to Nami as Generalist supports. Their kits are so closely identical to each other, it has almost always come down to, "Which currently has better numbers?" in regards to who was on top. Pre-3.14 people would say, "Why bother with Nami if you can pick Sona?" Post-3.14 people would say, "Why bother with Sona, if you can pick Nami?" Simply because Sona received more and harsher nerfs that patch than Nami. It's very difficult to discuss Sona without discussing Nami when their fates have always been so closely linked.

Except this discussion doesn't call for a comparison at this time. Whoever did that just spoke out of line assuming crap he shouldn't have.

As an aggro support, it's only natural that Sona's damage numbers be compared to other supports. Now that she's been pigeonholed into a failed "burst mage" design, it's even more natural to compare her to real burst mages that frequent bot lane, such as Brand & Lux. Sona is not and has never been a defensive support, the noobs advocating stacking Windspeaker effects inherently have a lack of knowledge regarding true Sona playstyle & unfortunately these were the bronze scrubs that Fearless valued most when he dumpstered her, being B1/S5 himself & having never actually played Sona before taking on the project.

  1. Sona's a defensive champion more than she's an offensive one. She's just generally poorly designed.

  2. Holy hell why do people keep talking about support Lux? I don't care if it's freelo. I want to save the player base from this notion that support Lux is good.

I mention the nerfs to her because they are the very backbone of the discussion.

They have nothing to do with anything given the original context of this derailed mini-discussion in all honesty.

The reason Sona is forced to cheese with Lich Bane is a direct result of those nerfs. The reason Sona has disappeared from high elo is a direct result of those nerfs. The reason Sona's kit is unhealthy and unbalanceable is a direct result of those nerfs. If Rito were to just revert her to pre-4.13 and buff her from there, she would finally reappear in Master+ yet again.

The reason Sona's kit is unhealthy is because Sona's INITIAL KIT is outdated. Riot isn't wrong for changing the kit. They're wrong for changing it poorly (way too close to the original kit, thus solving none of the issues it had save "not interactive") and then half-assing a "fix" later.

Miku Hime sama1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Sona's a defensive champion more than she's an offensive one. She's just generally poorly designed.

Her numbers say "Yes"(comparably,) but her kit says "No" and it always has. Staccato used to have usable numbers, Power Chord in general used to not be shit. Hymn of Valor used to have higher bases AND scalings as well as a lower cooldown. Sona herself used to have higher base AD & not to mention her aura improved all of these. Now that Sona doesn't use auras anymore, her shit excuse bubble-actives have shit excuses for stats that don't even compare in usefulness. Her heal has never been her selling point, it had mediocre bases/scalings and a mediocre CD, but of course it didn't used to be so fucking bad as it is now. If you wanted a defensive support, you picked Soraka, Janna, even Lulu, but Sona does not fit that bill & any half-decent Sona player knows she is SUPPOSED to be an aggro support, regardless of the close-minded bleaters like Fearless.

  1. Holy hell why do people keep talking about support Lux? I don't care if it's freelo. I want to save the player base from this notion that support Lux is good.

I never said it was good, but it is popular and that's all that matters to justify a comparison. I'd rather use Brand, he's a much bigger issue, but I digress.

The reason Sona's kit is unhealthy is because Sona's INITIAL KIT is outdated. Riot isn't wrong for changing the kit. They're wrong for changing it poorly (way too close to the original kit, thus solving none of the issues it had save "not interactive") and then half-assing a "fix" later.

I don't... disagree per-say. Yes 4.13 was a failure that created problems that didn't exist before. Yes 6.14 was also a failure that created yet MORE problems, not unusual given Rito's track record in all honesty. However, Sona's original kit wasn't exactly "unhealthy" from a balance perspective. Rito stated the only problem was "visibility," hence why Fearless' main focus was on giving her new visuals and he himself publicly stated that kit changes were 100% secondary & would be thrown onto Live whatever the fuck they looked like once the new visuals were ready. There's nothing wrong with auras in a MOBA, HotS for example is actively adding MORE auras to the game, Rito is removing them because Meddler himself has a personal bias against the mechanic, I have a few educated guesses as to why. As you know, the flashier visuals failed to improve visibility, directly as a result to the fact Sona's abilities were gutted into the ground.

Congratz, her team can now see that she's casting spells. Problem is, the fucking numbers are so fucking low on literally every single one, that they don't even know what the fucking spells actually do.

"Yay, she's glowing blue. What were those waves she sent at the enemy? Do they lower defense or something? Cause the enemy took ZERO DAMAGE from them."

"Wow, she's glowing green, sent a wave at me and we had bubbles for half a second. I assume it like increases my damage reduction and is a spell shield like Sivir/Nocturne, respectively, because my HP bar didn't go up and I didn't get any grey health, so it can't possibly have been an actual shield, especially considering the terribly short duration."

"Amazing, such a pretty purple. I literally have no idea what happened, but that's a nice color."

"Sona, why didn't you ult? What do you mean you did? What even does your ult do? Cause it seemed to do nothing at all."

~ Average teammate in any given Sona game

Yuzuki Yukarin8 votes

Yet Brand can delete 100% of your hp without items. How is Sona with an artificial scaling item a problem?

chipndip11 votes

Because you can dodge Brand's shit. You can't dodge Sona's...and Riot still isn't done ignoring support as a collective.

Emmy Cha0s4 votes

You can't dodge Brand's E or his Ult, his main teamfighting tool. You can however dodge Sona's ult, her ONLY teamfighting tool.

chipndip12 votes

Sona's whole kit is a team fight tool. Only issue is that it's a bunch of watered down team fight tools rather than anything that's potent and appreciable, hence why you don't recognize them as such.

Mâiden1 votes

But so can any other assassin? sonas secondary role is assassin.

AWildAPKalista5 votes

{quoted}

sonas secondary role is assassin.

https://youtu.be/_n5E7feJHw0

Winterwings6 votes

The fundamental problem with Sona is that all of her skills are extremely simplistic and easy-to-use. Which in turn means that ALL of her numbers have to suffer for it, otherwise if the numbers on her Q/W/E were decent she would be broken with such simplistic mechanics.

Look at her Q, on rank 1 it does 40 magic damage. 40!

There isn't any other spell in the game with such a low rank 1 base damage. NOT A SINGLE ONE! because after you take in enemy's resistances into consideration that ends up around 35 or so magic damage (even less if they have 12 MR runes, which they 99% of the times do.)

And sure you get the aura bonus damage on your autoattacks, but high elo, any competent enemy will punish you for trying to make use of that damage. And with her abysmal stats, most of the time it's just not worth it even trying to get that damage off... Just use the Q to get easy spellthief's procs... It's just sad that it's been reduced to that. (Let's not talk about how the old warlord's made it completely pointless to even try and poke early with it)

Her W is just as bad...Rank 1 - 80 Mana for a measly 35 Heal and 30 Shield that barely lasts a second and a half (And a max rank W costs as much as mana as some champions Ultimates, hell even her own Ultimate costs the same... 100! freaking mana) ...

...

#Rant Mode Off

I'm not saying it's impossible to play her, hell i climbed out of gold into plat with her with a 74% WR over ~50 games in this season alone... But it's just that playing her is so unsatisfying, i've resorted to foregoing the damage builds and instead going with a tear build just to mitigate the pain of even casting her W or E after putting more than one point into them. Hoping that the team doesn't flop the game completely before late game where she just becomes obnoxious.

And half the time i get flamed for even building a tear of the goddess on her by people with ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE what it's like to play Sona (The kind that just looks up mobafire builds and flames you if you're not building according to it). I mean sure the tear build may be sub-optimal but the 74% WR on gold elo games doesn't lie... It CAN work in such elo...

TL;DR - Sona's mechanics are too simplistic and her numbers all suffer because of it. I agree with the OP, she needs a Sion-level VGU.

Yuzuki Yukarin5 votes

I could debate that Nami's W is more simplistic and easier to use than Sona's whole kit, cause let's face fact. Nami has all 3 of Sona's basic abilities just on her W alone for less mana than just 1 of Sona's spells, then gets a Q and E for free while also sporting better base stats.

Nami's W is point and click, it won't mis-cast if an ally/enemy isn't in range. It has higher range than Sona's abilities. Meanwhile, as a Sona player you have to memorize and judge the ranges on your abilities because of the fact they, unlike Nami's W, can be cast without a valid target in range. Thus wasting cooldowns and burning mana for zero gain.

I can argue that Sona's numbers should be REWARDED for the complexity of her kit being somewhere in-between single-target and skillshot level of difficulty.


That aside, your points about her numbers are spot-on. I can't begin to count the number of times I've pointed out these as facts when I used to be more active here on the boards. Problem is, Rito doesn't give a shit. They hate Sona, they refuse to talk about her and lie to our faces on the rare occasion they do. These forums are filled with anti-Sona haters that(like Rito) also want to see her fail. You can already see they've invaded this thread too: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/player/NA/MunchCrunchLunch

Their actions explicitly break the forum rules, but these forums don't have moderators and the report button is a placebo.


I can't say I applaud your attempts to continue playing her in her state of unplayability. Crazy... yes, that's the right word and yes, people will flame you because they don't understand her. Of course nobody plays her, so of course nobody understands her. The only people that actually pick her in this post-Patch 4.13 world are **masochists **that get off to enjoy verbal harassment.

Winterwings2 votes

I honestly have a firm belief that the only thing that is currently keeping her at a 53 % WR if taking average data from all regions in platinum elo and below games is the fact that she is probably THE BEST champion for making use of item 3504 Ardent Censer (A really really good enchanter support item after all the buffs it got)... That and the fact that once she gets to late game a properly played Sona can singlehandedly decide outcomes of late game teamfights due to her ridiculous utility uptime at that point...


That is beside the point however, as GETTING there is a painstaking process of having to live through minimal impact laning phase (unless going for Sheen builds in which case you forfeit the utility of Censer builds) to get your late game items.


As far as the Sona haters go, they can point out her high winrate at the time being as justification to keep gutting her even more...but they miss the point of threads like these by a long shot. We (Sona Mains) aren't complaining and crying for buffs, we are pointing out the fact that despite her winrate, her current state is unhealthy and inexcusable for ANY champion to be in.


Rito tried to "fix" her by giving her the base cooldown reduction passive on her ultimate, but all that did was given them justification to gut her numbers even more into the ground, proceed to nerf the aforementioned base CDR passive impact on her early and mid game and leave her in such state...

If it weren't for items such as item 3174 , item 3190 , item 3504 , item 3107 that cover up her issues, Sona wouldn't really have much to rely on...

Miku Hime sama4 votes

While Censer isn't the noob trap it used to be long ago, it's still a severely situational item regarding its damage buffs. Meanwhile its shield buffs are literally irrelevant due to A) Sona being the weakest shielder in the game, B) having the shortest-duration shield in the game by being less than 30% the average and C) being the weakest healer in the game.

Now, if you were to say Sona is ONLY being picked into teams with MULTIPLE AA-type champions and building Censer(which as a matter of fact is indeed the case), that explains why her winrate is being ARTIFICIALLY inflated by being played ONLY in the most optimal of scenarios.

Let's also not forget other factors: the average Sona player has a significantly higher number of games played on their champion than most other champions. The average number of games played AGAINST Sona is significantly lower than other champions(hence people don't know how to play against her, they don't realize one basic attack outtrades her full combo.)


I could buy those 4 items on Nami or Bard and my performance and winrate would be significantly higher than on Sona. Covering up her issues is not the same as fixing them, it's just a band-aid.

Nymzo5 votes

I'm still sure there's a way to make Sona an aura support while keeping her music theme.

Look at Lùcio from Overwatch , Blizzard recently added him to HOTS and he works perfectly as an aura support and he keeps his music theme.

Ahristocats2 votes

i stand corrected then, i agree i didn't play overwatch. If they can make Sona working with aura then i'm not against it

But the other problem is that Auras in league are more imbalanced then the other games due to how the entire game works which is why riot removed almost every aura from the game, in both champions and items (fiddlestick soraka fervor of stark will of the ancient locket ect...) the only auras i can think about are frozen heart (which is underpowered right now) abyssal scepter

Nymzo1 votes

I don't see why Sona would be a problem.

Just don't give her hard cc, only give her slows, auras and maybe keeping the ''music notes'' mechanic (like the less dmg dealt by this unit) but make them skillshots instead of empower auto attacks.

And she would still be squishy and not as mobile as Lùcio is in both Overwatch and HOTS.

And unlike the current Sona, once she's out of the fight, her auras wouldn't be here any longer.

So, like a Soraka, you may want to focus her first before the adc.

chipndip18 votes

LoL is extremely dependent on hard cc. If you're a support without hard cc, then what the fuck you actually do better be better than crack cocaine without the negatives.

Nymzo1 votes

Look at Soraka, all she has for CC is a slow and silence, yet she works well as a support (despite a tedious laning phase).

The reason why I would think giving Sona hard cc would be a bad idea is because she would then be overloaded, especially if she has a good slow.

LankPants2 votes

She also has a root and generally doesn't work, so there's that.

chipndip15 votes

Because her healing's obnoxiously powerful to the point where Riot nerfed her repeatedly until she wasn't a top tier pick anymore.

Besides, she has hard cc.

Yuzuki Yukarin7 votes

Assassins are more imbalanced than auras, but Rito both encourages and enables assassins to exist. There's nothing wrong with auras, the problem is that Meddler himself has a biased hatred towards the mechanic.

chipndip11 votes

Went to the spotlight.

Strengths:

  • Slippery?

  • Frequent peel!?

  • CONSTANT FUCKING AOE BENEFITS!?!?!?

This type of thing is what Riot ripped OUT of Sona. Looks like Blizzard found it and put it in a dancing black guy. No way Riot's going to make aura champions viable here. Just scrap the auras.

Nymzo1 votes

{quoted}

Went to the spotlight.

Strengths:

  • Slippery?

  • Frequent peel!?

  • CONSTANT FUCKING AOE BENEFITS!?!?!?

This type of thing is what Riot ripped OUT of Sona. Looks like Blizzard found it and put it in a dancing black guy. No way Riot's going to make aura champions viable here. Just scrap the auras.

First of all, you need to understand one thing about supports in HOTS: they are a bigger thread than those in League. In fact, they are the #1 target for assasins in hots.

Also, Adc or I should Ranged Assasins in hots are able to peel by themselves.

Because of that, Blizzard can get away with giving them ridiculous spells (as long as it doesn't go overboard, of course).

Also, I know I didn't make it clear but I meant to said to take inspiration of Lùcio, not to literally copy paste his spells into Sona, wtf. Lùcio can regen 3 health per second and that's not even without his e and talents. Of course it would be fucking broken in League.

chipndip11 votes

My point: There's no way in hell that aoe benefits in this game won't come with some major drawbacks. Things like actually having peel, actually having decent aoe effects...hell, just being a significant factor throughout the match as a support...all these things are things Riot isn't willing to do. Because of this, scrap the kit that's grounded in a foundation based on what Riot isn't willing to do so they can make one that they're ARE willing to work with.

Nymzo1 votes

{quoted}

My point: There's no way in hell that aoe benefits in this game won't come with some major drawbacks. Things like actually having peel, actually having decent aoe effects...hell, just being a significant factor throughout the match as a support...all these things are things Riot isn't willing to do. Because of this, scrap the kit that's grounded in a foundation based on what Riot isn't willing to do so they can make one that they're ARE willing to work with.

Which is why I just said to NOT give her any hard cc, because all her auras and musical notes would make up for it...

chipndip14 votes

Riot won't do it. There isn't a single support of merit with no hard cc. Otherwise Nunu and Kayle would be bot lane.

Nymzo1 votes

Those 2 were designed when Riot didn't have a lot of champions so they made ''hybrid'' champions that could be in different roles.

And again:

Especially since probably no one here has ever seen a support without cc that has enough utility to make up for it.

Yes you can imagine but if you never saw it for yourself, how can you be so sure it will never work?

chipndip15 votes

It won't work because we see the state of things RIGHT NOW.

Juggernauts as a class are garbage. The main good one that's usually useful is Darius. Period. Morde has a few cases if you build around him, but outside of that Darius is the only good jug...AND HE HAS A PULL. Every other jug is either "eh" or "garbage" because they're so heavily limited on crowd control. A support is meant to be strong early without being a carry-level damage threat (usually). With this in mind, unless you want what they bring to be obnoxiously strong, there's no way you're making a support with no hard cc. Period. We don't have to jump off a cliff to know it'll kill us. We don't have to make a support with 0 hard cc to know that it'd flop harder than Nami's death animation.

Nymzo1 votes

Sounds more like a heavy dependence on CC, if you ask me.

I don't want her to bring ''obnoxiously strong'' spells, I just want to see something new that doesn't really on ''who should I cc first?'', for a change.

Something that you should at least consider instead of going immediately into ''bang wagon'' mode.

Along with the few people who downvote our posts without even saying anything.

chipndip15 votes

I am telling you that, with the current state of the game environment, what you're asking for is blatantly impossible. It was possible a long time ago, but there's too much hard cc in the game now for a support to be viable without it.

SUPPORTS NEED HARD CC. PERIOD.

Edit: I thought that was you downvoting me...huh...guess someone was doing it to us both...

h5LYF41Lam5 votes

Breaking News sona is supposed to be an enchanter dont play her full ap and wonder why youre not the best support in the game with your only skillshot being your R

Ahristocats10 votes

{quoted}

Breaking News sona is supposed to be an enchanter dont play her full ap

Thanks sherlock, those dedicated mains didn't know that

MunchCrunchLunch4 votes

get out with this bullshit

http://champion.gg/champion/Sona/Support

54% winrate with 5% playrate.

Sona mains you dare not do this again. last time yall cried for buffs for a champion that had like 53% winrate. riot somehow buffed her and she had 59% winrate. the highest ever winrate in 2 years.

but ignore these facts and post bs subjective nonsense

InTheory2 votes

[deleted]

Ahristocats11 votes

{quoted}

One question: I thought Riot wanted Sona to be sort of a late game champion with her strong CDR and ability spamming but her old strength was the early game. Do you see her future as a strong early or late game champion?

Until riot changes that, late game Supports cannot be a thing. Right now most of Sona's power is tied to level 16 which is impossible to get in almost all games, Supports also need to be relevant in early game they even changed the way lulu's passive gained damage with level so she can have faster more damage

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