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Cho'Gath Daddy needs help

HateDaddy··10 votes·652 views

When I say this, I don't mean anything stat wise. In terms of numbers, Cho'Gath is the epitome of balance. But his clunkyness and league of mobility holds him back so hard. I am going to suggest a few QoL buffs, feel free to suggest your own or simply discuss the suggestions I've made.

This is what I sugguest:

-reduce the cast time on his Q by .25 seconds. -Cho'Gath no longer stops his walking animation to cast rupture -after 3 feast stacks, Cho'Gath ignores unit collision

I believe with these buffs alone, Cho will be much better overall without it making him overpowered.

His Qs cast time is too long, its honestly way too easy to simply walk around, nevermind the free mobility riot likes to award for no reason these days. Do you guys do that in your office too? Just pass out random jogging and basketball shoes so people can be faster and jump higher and make LCS big LeeSin executive decisions while being flashy?

If you allowed him to continue walking through his Qs cast animation, you could look at the option of removing the slow after rupture because honestly I always found that to be an unnecessary power attatchment anyway. And this buff here, of all the buffs I suggested, actually has the potential to break him.

It really doesn't make sense that he doesn't ignore unit collision after a certain amount of stacks, it doesn't have to be 3 - it could easily be 6. But honestly, this big bad ass void demon tripping over little punk ass minions? Lets be real, thats dumb even from a character/style stand point. Not to mention, being a 6 stack Cho means you can't go near minion waves without saying "ah screw it, time to break dance for an hour while I try to get through these minions."

So yeah, thats all I've got. Feel free to yell at me, call me names, donate rp to me and the whole 9 yards.

18 Comments

What Is Smite2 votes

Or they could buff some of his mana costs since he burns through them very quickly and is usually oom at the start of a teamfight pre-RoA

HateDaddy2 votes

Or they could buff some of his mana costs since he burns through them very quickly and is usually oom at the start of a teamfight pre-RoA

I think his mana costs are what prevents him from being overbearing in lane. With his passive and good mana management, I think his costs are fine. Exactly what they should be honestly.

What Is Smite1 votes

Or they could buff some of his mana costs since he burns through them very quickly and is usually oom at the start of a teamfight pre-RoA

I think his mana costs are what prevents him from being overbearing in lane. With his passive and good mana management, I think his costs are fine. Exactly what they should be honestly.

Well his passive gives him some decent health regen but not soo much mana since at lvl 1 I believe he gets 4.25 mana returned for every unit he kills meaning you are very farm intensive as a champion. You could get away with picking cho in top lane if your lane opponent has no idea how to play against you, but his weak early game really dampers his potential as anything other than a tank. His scaling on his Q,W,E are terrific but because of how the top lane meta favors bruisers and AP mages over tanks Cho will get either poked out or insta-bursted which means that in turn you lose out on soo much cs that you need to maintain yourself in the top lane. As of currently Cho'Gath is like a more mana cost heavy version of Maokai minus the damage reduction and snare which Cho'Gath has swapped out for True Damage and a 2.5s Silence at rank 5.

HateDaddy1 votes

Or they could buff some of his mana costs since he burns through them very quickly and is usually oom at the start of a teamfight pre-RoA

I think his mana costs are what prevents him from being overbearing in lane. With his passive and good mana management, I think his costs are fine. Exactly what they should be honestly.

Well his passive gives him some decent health regen but not soo much mana since at lvl 1 I believe he gets 4.25 mana returned for every unit he kills meaning you are very farm intensive as a champion. You could get away with picking cho in top lane if your lane opponent has no idea how to play against you, but his weak early game really dampers his potential as anything other than a tank. His scaling on his Q,W,E are terrific but because of how the top lane meta favors bruisers and AP mages over tanks Cho will get either poked out or insta-bursted which means that in turn you lose out on soo much cs that you need to maintain yourself in the top lane. As of currently Cho'Gath is like a more mana cost heavy version of Maokai minus the damage reduction and snare which Cho'Gath has swapped out for True Damage and a 2.5s Silence at rank 5.

Cho does fine in lane and hes not designed to be in all-in sort of champ, at least not early. He is designed to sustain and honestly, if played correctly, he doesn't really lose any lanes. His mana costs have to be restrictive, otherwise he just spams W while off CD and has nothing to manage, he wins through W poke, short AA trades and out-sustaining. Nothing about his laning is weak, its everything else that makes him not worth playing because of how stupidly easy he is to avoid and outplay. The buffs I suggest don't change his laning much anyway.

Drogmyre1 votes

Or they could buff some of his mana costs since he burns through them very quickly and is usually oom at the start of a teamfight pre-RoA

Basically this. If they took the vast majority of 'underpowered' mages, and gave them mana costs that didn't fucking break the bank after 3-4 spell casts, there would be a fuckton more viable mages in the game.

It's retarded how many mages go OOM after only a couple of spells.

HateDaddy1 votes

Or they could buff some of his mana costs since he burns through them very quickly and is usually oom at the start of a teamfight pre-RoA

Basically this. If they took the vast majority of 'underpowered' mages, and gave them mana costs that didn't fucking break the bank after 3-4 spell casts, there would be a fuckton more viable mages in the game.

It's retarded how many mages go OOM after only a couple of spells.

Mages need to be heavily gated by mana costs because thats where all of their power is invested in - their spells. Thats why they have several mana regen items like chalice, morellos, catalsty (which gives sustain of both health/mana/flat mana and health and scaling mana/health once roa is completed), tear, etc.

Chos problem isn't his mana costs and his passive does fine with his mana regen. His style is supposed to gate him through his mana costs and then outsustain his opponent. Not spam spells at a whim, otherwise he would be broken.

Jungle Lux God3 votes

Be careful what you wish for, because some mages really need that mana gate.

Example: Malzahar's abilities are only somewhat fair because of those mana costs. Reduce the mana costs and he instantly becomes pick or ban.

Drogmyre1 votes

True enough. I wasn't referring to Malz, though, he's got his E to generate more mana. It's more the champions that absolutely require some form of mass mana regen like Chalice or blue buff, where they literally go OOM after 4 spell casts or so, despite their spells not being above and beyond the effects of other spells of similar type.

I want to be clear on this, as well: Chalice and Athene's are really bad items for the game. They're basically band-aids for small mana pools/high cost/bad scaling. In addition, they make champions (like Ziggs during his FotM phase) absolute cancer because it's basically impossible to run out of mana with those items. Basically, Chalice is a lame fix for poor scaling/base stats and/or poor mana management, while simultaneously providing already strong poke champions with more fuel for their fires, which is dumb.

Not saying Mana is a bad concept, but there are a few champions that I'd like to see base stats/scalings improved on to give them smoother gameplay. Reduced mana costs wouldn't be necessary if their mana/mana per level/mana regen/mana regen per level fit their costs a bit better (not enough to make spells spammable, but enough to allow mana management without too many disadvantages.)

HateDaddy1 votes

No thots? :o

HateDaddy1 votes

Morello I see you browsing

I want to hear your thoughts. Don't worry, I don't bite but I do feast.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

i like this and these changes would still keep him balanced

HateDaddy1 votes

i like this and these changes would still keep him balanced

Yeah I agree

He just needs QoL changes, nothing more.

And if these changes go too far or appear to be too much, theres so much that can be tinkered with to keep his play style in tact. Like for example, shorter cast time on Q and the ability to walk and cast Q (or even a shorter stopping period) opens room to reducing the scaling on his Q or remove the slow after it, both of which I would gladly take in exchange for a more reliable rupture.

HateDaddy1 votes

Yo I wanna hear some feedback here, gimme something ladies and gents

Jungle Lux God1 votes

Cho'gath has really long cast times because his abilities are so strong in their own right, with Rupture only being balanced because it is so hard to land. Reducing the cast time would make it a lot easier to hit, and therefore the ability would have to be nerfed much harder. Walking while casting Rupture also has the same problem: being immobile is a distinct weakness that Cho'gath has, and this change would ruin it, while ignoring unit collision would remove the counterplay that Cho'gath has in body-blocking him from the enemy team's carries so he can't Feast on them.

If anything, his late game should be buffed so that his power fantasy of being an unkillable raid boss is fit better. Maybe reduce the Feast stacks he loses on death as he ranks up the ability? I'm thinking reduce it to 1/2,1/3,1/6 from 1/2 at all levels. This makes him a lot stronger where he needs to be strong without giving distinct buffs directly to his kit, especially his early game, which is designed to be weak.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

The third one is interesting.

The first and the second suggestion, I don't think they're good idea. Cho's Q is allowed to be the powerhouse of an ability it is because it is so telegraphed and difficult to hit. That thing hits for 300 base + 1.0 AP, on a 9 second CD!

HateDaddy1 votes

The third one is interesting.

The first and the second suggestion, I don't think they're good idea. Cho's Q is allowed to be the powerhouse of an ability it is because it is so telegraphed and difficult to hit. That thing hits for 300 base + 1.0 AP, on a 9 second CD!

Heres my thought behind that

Cho'Gath is supposed to be heavily awarded for landing rupture. You could argue its one of the best non ultimate abilities in the game, its a malphite ult with the same scaling but lower base damage. But the thing is, in this league of mobility, its so damn easy to outplay.

Now, I realize if rupture becomes easier to land, it becomes by far the best non ultimate ability in the game ahead of Veigars event horizon ans Blitzcrank's rocket grab. If, and this can be tested on pbe I would like to think, it turns out to be way too damn powerful, I would honestly accept cutting its cast time down a small bit in exchange of lowering its scaling to .7 or so. This doesn't impact ap bruiser cho or tank cho much but I realize it does hurt mage cho, which quite frankly mage Cho is potentially broken regardless in my opinion.

I know a lot of Cho players might not like that but realize right now, its so unreliable that I honestly believe its not worth playing Cho'Gath. I know CapnChoGath would disagree but lets be real here, the only champion he plays is ChoGath, he literally doesn't play any other champion. If thats what it requires to master a champion, its not worth it. And one or even a few good Cho players in high elo doesn't mean hes good - in the words of Charles Barklius, it doesn't untrash a champion. Cho has a really low winrate, hes not considered good competitively even though you could honestly make a strong argument that hes the most balanced champion in the game. But he is too damn easy to outplay and thats frustrating because hes my second most played champion and next to Nasus, my favorite champion and I hate that not only do I get flamed for playing him, I get frustrated playing him when one champion presses one button and easily outplays my rupture.

The hitbox is also inconsistent as heck, I would love to see that updated, too. So I suppose what I am asking for his a transfer in power in his Q to allow it to be more disruptive based on a consistent basis while toning down his burst/damage output in return. I think this keeps him balanced but allows him to function better.

CoolKnightST1 votes

What about giving him a small ms buff after he became inmobile from casting the Q.

HateDaddy1 votes

C'mon cho players, talk to me

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