[opinion] We should get rid of AP scaling on ADs like irelia, wuking, and jinx

redfeenix·Jul 15, 2016·2 votes·556 views

Hey ,

There are a ton of non AP champs which have ap scalings. Some examples off the top of my head are irelia's e, jinx's chompers and wukings clone.

Im asking you guys whether these are a good idea or bad. Most of the time these ad champs never build AP. Why do you think these weird ap scalings exist ( and for just one skill). Is riot encouraging us to build ap on jinx or wuking?

Is it better if these AD champs have all their skills scale with AD? Or do you think the scaling should be removed completely?

Let me know what you guys think... these random AP scalings on a single skill is very confusing from a design pov. I'm really puzzled to why so many ADs or bruisers have AP scaling on a single skill.

Thanks for reading!

20 Comments

GaleWinUnleashedJul 15, 20163 votes

Those AP scalings are mostly there so that the AP on a couple of items those champions might buy doesn't completely go to waste. It's not really intended to be something you can build for.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

TyroneWatermelonJul 16, 20161 votes

Darius Draven Vayne Kalista Riven Garen Talon Zed Illaoi Kindred

GaleWinUnleashedJul 16, 20161 votes

Except for Trinity Force, these champions almost never bought any AP at all. Kindred is the only one of them that very consistently buys it; Darius, Vayne, Talon, Zed, and Illaoi may occasionally buy it if they want to opt into a bursty in-and-out playstyle, but it's fairly rare.

Notice also that most of those do almost exclusively physical damage. Kalista and Zed do a bit of magic damage, but the rest have none. That may also be part of the reasoning for the lack of AP ratios, seeing as AP is tied loosely to magic damage dealers.

This sort of justifies the lack of AP ratios on the champs you listed, but does not really provide an excuse for the likes of Jinx to have one. I dunno what she's doing with an AP ratio.

Since Trinity Force no longer has any AP, perhaps it's about time to remove the random ratios from champs like Wukong.

Edit: I'm going through some more champions, and it's dawned on me that there are extremely few damaging abilities without any damage scaling at all. This may be part of the reason for the nearly useless AP ratios scattered around; they wanted the ability to have scaling beyond just ranking the ability, but couldn't find a reason to justify giving it an AD or health ratio.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

RalanrJul 15, 20161 votes

It's usually meant to encourage hybrid builds. Whether they happen or not is a different story.

redfeenixJul 15, 20161 votes

What's a hybrid build ? Like gunblade? That makes a lil more sense I guess ... Never thought about those champs building hybrid...

RalanrJul 15, 20161 votes

Yeah. Jax is probably the best example of this.

khorneyJul 15, 20161 votes

tri force. rageblade . hextech . all good for on hit builds.... but with certain adcs it works never tried it with jinx but varus it worked liek a boss,, on hit being rage blade, nashors, blade of the ruined king, what ever boots and runaans and what ever you liek as your last item, wits end hour glass or a ad item, want to mess peopel up as twitch badly use this.... i did this on varus no one on there team could 1v1 at all full tank voli pff died to fast full tank ekko killed hime liek nothing, this on tf is op if you can make it this far on the build your e double cast

zlumpyJul 15, 20161 votes

I would love scaling on some skills but due to their increased utility they either have to he AP, flat dmg, or really low AD ratios.

I mean imagine how much stronger ashe would be with just a .3 AD ratio on ult instead of AP.

redfeenixJul 15, 20161 votes

Yeah I was considering that that's why I suggested removing scaling completely. I'm really not sure if we're trying to encourage ap ash builds or not

zlumpyJul 15, 20161 votes

Nah they just didnt want AD ult on ashe allowing her to walk out of a bush and 100-0 people in 2-3 seconds at lvl 6.

Tbh it should just have a low flat true dmg since it is pretty much used for stunning purposes only. Sometimes it works as a finish move but even then she doesn't have any ap so it is just the act of landing the skill that does it.

Good examples of when riot messes up their intent btw were AP yi and trist. I don't think they ever actually intended those champs to be mage types.

D3m37r1Jul 15, 20161 votes

They have ap scalings because either the ability isn't meant for damage or they just want that champion to have the full benefit of the baron buff. Few actual hybrid champions exist.

redfeenixJul 15, 20161 votes

Oohhhh right baron gives ap right? Now That makes a lot of sense!

EedatJul 15, 20161 votes

This kid thinks MonkeyKing uses his clone for damage. Lol.

redfeenixJul 15, 20161 votes

Rush rabadons, insta wave clear with w ;)

khorneyJul 15, 20161 votes

have you ever went full ap and killed soemone with the clone its funny

dim2aJul 15, 20161 votes

No, I'd much rather riot leaves them or makes more of them. Makes it more likely that an unconventional build will appear here or that, and that is fun. They can't be replaced by AD scalings (unless champion was meant to be buffed in the first place, which is a different discussion) since that'll increase their power at no cost. And I don't see a benefit of removing them.

khorneyJul 15, 20161 votes

triforce used to have ap on it and those champs all could use it .....

HigeJul 15, 20161 votes

actually, AP scallings are there to prevent Damage creep, so that champions who build heavy AD don't have 4 scaling skills, there are of course some exceptions to this rule but AP ratios on AD champions are used as a valve most of the time.

LadyRenlyJul 15, 20161 votes

It is done on purpose. They want the ability to scale, but not with the intended scaling. For example, if Shen's ultimate scaled with HP, his primary stat, they would probably have to nerf his ult by quite a lot to compensate because his kit would suddenly have too much power. And to be honest, there'd be no point in nerfing all these champions just to give them proper scaling.

redfeenixJul 16, 20161 votes

I guess its cool if shen wnats to build hourglass or something ?

Lets leave it in then , it could be fun