Ive been reading posts that were 4 or more years old asking why sivir has ap q scaling and i cant come up with an answer.
Triforce no longer has ap, nor does she build it optimally. Guinsoos isnt, and has not been anywhere near optimal. Same for gunblade.
This ratio is noobtrap at best and i dont really see where it fits in at all.
EndlessSorcerer4 votesEh, it provides a small damage bonus when she has Baron buff.
It isn't exactly useful but there isn't really any point in removing it.
Slythrin Umbreon3 votesWelp, now I need to main AP Sivir to B5
SchmidttyGames3 votes
I've seen that work. ^^ Recently too.
Professor Ward1 votes[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RbYztjWI,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-27T22:30:34.304+0000)
I've seen that work. ^^ Recently too.
i love off meta builds, buttt
the question that should be asked is not what worked, but would something else have worked better?
SchmidttyGames1 votesAgainst Mordekaiser/Alistar, I'm not sure what would have.
Against a traditional lane, I couldn't say.
Nashor's Tooth seems to be a really strong item. Popping up in all kinds of crazy builds in every role.
Professor Ward1 votes[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RbYztjWI,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-10-27T22:38:57.582+0000)
Against Mordekaiser/Alistar, I'm not sure what would have.
Against a traditional lane, I couldn't say.
Nashor's Tooth seems to be a really strong item. Popping up in all kinds of crazy builds in every role.
nashors and guinsoos give the two highest amounts of attack speed of any item, and also scale really well into ap 80 and 70 ap respectively and 50% and 73% attack speed respectively
So 150 ap, 123% attack speed
20% cdr
double on hit nashors and guinsoos proc + whatever on hit you have passively or purchased. Doubling borks passive is strong on its own.
with a lil ad to top the cake
This is the reason the champs who use these items are balanced around them, such a powerful combo.
SchmidttyGames1 votesSpeaking purely from opinion, Rageblade is the key to a lot of very specific "hyper-carry" types. Kayle, of course, being the poster child of Rageblade because it also double-procs her E, which is her entire kit. xD But doubling BORK is always good. How long can anyone survive taking 16% Max HP Damage + Everything else?
As a "Bottom Laner", BORK is actually a fairly mandatory third purchase on almost every ADC that doesn't build it sooner. It's really strong too.
The Sword Saint2 votesIt's also from a time when every ability always had some scaling, and riot way of not putting scaling on a move was to give it the wrong ratio since it achieved the desired result while leaving the potential for unexpected off meta builds if people could find ways to make them work.
Unfortunately over time it became clear that usually the off meta builds that tended to work from these weird ratios were terible for the game, like ap tristana and ap yi which have since been removed from the game. Sivr hasn't caused an issue like that yet though, so her ratios stay until theres a good reason to remove them.
Professor Ward1 votes[{quoted}](name=A Sword Saint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RbYztjWI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-27T22:19:35.570+0000)
It's also from a time when every ability always had some scaling, and riot way of not putting scaling on a move was to give it the wrong ratio.
i get that, but that was half a decade ago... i have children younger than sivirs ap ratio "D
Valor Bot2 votesIt's for Baron, I believe. Killing Baron grants you a buff that increases your AD and AP for the duration. The AP exists on Sivir's kit (and other champions' kits) so that she can make use of the additional damage while the buff is active. I'm not sure why it only exists on some champions, though. Riven for example has no AP in her kit IIRC, even though she could also potentially benefit from the bonus AP Baron provides.
Mazariamonti2 votesI'm just waiting for her to reach OP status again and for Riot to respond with super serious nerfs by removing or lowering the ap scaling.
Kuronii Lumiira2 votesNatural Talent mastery.
Sukishoo2 votesMost champs have some kind of opposite scaling on their abilities cause it helps with balance.
Khristophoros1 votesIt always had it. It's not useful but it's also pointless to remove. Nobody falls for the "noob trap" so who cares?
Professor Ward2 votesIt always had it. It's not useful but it's also pointless to remove. Nobody falls for the "noob trap" so who cares?
This is terrible reasoning. So sivir just gets a benign mole for the eternity of her kit? Even when buffed/nerfed/worked?
Nope.
Khristophoros1 votesThis is terrible reasoning. So sivir just gets a benign mole for the eternity of her kit? Even when buffed/nerfed/worked?
Nope.
I don't think they remove AP ratios because at worst it's a nerf and at best it's nothing.
They won't keep it if they rework her though.
Pokemonred2001 votesI mean... there are passive effects (such as Baron) that give her AP, so it's not completely useless. It was better when Zeke's still gave both crit and AP, although still niche. Blue buff used to give passive AP as well. Her having the minor AP ratio is fine, and it's definately not hurting anyone or anything.
Khristophoros1 votesI mean... there are passive effects (such as Baron) that give her AP, so it's not completely useless. It was better when Zeke's still gave both crit and AP, although still niche. Blue buff used to give passive AP as well. Her having the minor AP ratio is fine, and it's definately not hurting anyone or anything.
All that stuff is extremely irrelevant. That's why they don't randomly add AP ratios to new champs.
But at the same time there's no reason to remove old AP ratios.
Pokemonred2001 votesThey added an AP Ratio to 
's Q for that exact reason in patch 3.6 though, and also why they added AP ratio's to 
's passive and 
's W in Patch 6.10. In the patch notes for both patches, they explicitly stated Baron buff as a reason for the AP ratios being added (alongside an item that they felt the champion could use, being 
in Quinn's case and in Nocturne and Shyvana's cases). Even if they seem extremely relevant, it was apparently relevant enough to slap random AP ratios on these champion's kits to begin with, so it's a decent reason for the AP ratios to exist.
PopcornBunni1 votesSo you're saying her passive and R move speed should have AP scaling
deadlychuck1 votes#NO!
This is the stupid shit that fucking ruined 
for no fucking reason, the same fucking mentality that has a post about 
popular recently, and the same fucking mentality that has caused the game's balance to be so fucking unstable!
Not to mention, "noobtrap" is probably the most fucking bullshit excuse I've ever fucking heard for removing something from the game. New players aren't complaining about it confusing them, and you must seriously think little of people, if you think that this would be a significant "trap" for anyone to see through. I mean fuck, new players wouldn't have even fucking known that AD was a thing unless they happened to try it, saw someone else doing it, or looked it up on the wiki (because the passive didn't list the 100% AD scaling for years). You're just using an extremely rare (arguably non-existent) and quickly resolved situation, to justify changing the game in a way which you would prefer. Stop.
Holy fuck, get your cancerous attitude off of league!
I'm so fucking sick of this stupid fucking idea that literally everything in a kit should be 100% utilized in the same, or most optimal, build. It's an insanely perspicuous design and one which actively removes styles, with varying degrees of viability, which feel completely unique from anything else that's offered in the game! Q: Is AP sivir stronger than AD sivir? A: I don't fucking care, and there is no reason that YOU should care, because the noobs don't fucking care either!
I can't speak directly about you, but my guess would be that people who think this way don't want this kind of thing to exist in the game, not because it might confuse noobs, but because they don't want experienced players to do something for their own entertainment, build AP sivir, and then feel like they were playing with a troll all game.
Professor Ward1 votes#NO! This is the stupid shit that fucking ruined
Not to mention, "noobtrap" is probably the most fucking bullshit excuse I've ever fucking heard for removing something from the game. New players aren't complaining about it confusing them. I mean fuck, new players wouldn't have even fucking known that AD
Holy fuck, get your cancerous attitude off of league!
I'm so fucking sick of this stupid fucking idea that literally everything in a kit should be 100% utilized in the same, or most optimal, build. It's an insanely perspicuous design and one which actively removes styles, with varying degrees of viability, which feel completely unique from anything else that's offered in the game! Q: Is AP sivir stronger than AD sivir? A: I don't fucking care, and there is no reason that YOU should care, because the noobs don't fucking care either!
i have a cancerous attitude because i feel it extremely off that sivir has an ap ratio? THAT WILL BE REMOVED WITH 100% certainty? In a game where EVERYSINGLE STAT POINT is examined to the fullest degree? You come in here loud and proud that sivir has a COMPLETELY UNUSED AP RATIO?
How much sense does it actually make to have champions with portions of their kit going unused? i just dont get your logic? Honestly.
I didnt ask for the game to be changed? I said sivir has an ap ratio and i dont know why? If you think taking this away hurts sivirs viability, or versatility, youre wrong. Completely wrong.
With that said, gtfoutta here man, my attitude is fine. Never been banned or warned, honor 5 instantly, and consistently upvoted here. There is nothing wrong with bringing an outdated stat to the surface, or my attitude.
Youre pissed you cant go ap yi, i get it, but theres no reason for sivir to have ap scaling. Sorry man, but youre the one with an attitude issue.
deadlychuck1 votesSorry, let me correct that
Holy fuck, get your cancerous
attitudephilosophy off of league!
Seriously though. Stop. Yes, sometimes scaling can conflict with different mechanics on the champion, resulting in something like AP Yi (honestly never bothered with it myself though), and while those kind of things should be addressed if causing problems. Alas they shouldn't be prevented.
Never been banned or warned, honor 5 instantly, and consistently upvoted here
Same (in fact i've got almost 3x the upvotes), but that doesn't increase the validity of any opinion you might hold.
I'm just fed up with this same stupid thing happening again and again, and zero consideration for the fucking minority of players that might actually be playing the champion in a way which utilized such things. If you want to look at this from a utilitarian prospective, the existence of non-primary scaling, scaling that are useless in the optimal builds, harms no one who ignores it, but does provide extra enjoyment to a subset of people who wish to utilize it.
(I edited this into the last post, but i'll copy it down here) I can't speak directly about you, but my best guess would be that people who think this way, as in don't want this kind of thing to exist in the game, not because it might confuse noobs or cause balance issues, but because they don't want experienced teammates doing something for their own entertainment, i.e. building AP sivir, and then feel like they were playing with a troll all game.
Edit: I say this having had teammates get salty, and subsequently carried them, on AP Varus and AD Malzahar countless times.
deadlychuck1 votesHow much sense does it actually make to have champions with portions of their kit going unused? i just dont get your logic? Honestly.
Oh yeah, for this, it's pretty straight forward. If a champion is designed not maximizing the effectiveness of every aspect of their kit, then every champion can be adjusted around this gradient of effectiveness within their own kit. It allows for more minute and specific balance adjustments to be made. If every skill is maximizing the effectiveness of the same purchases of the champion, then you either need to break up the kit into a million mechanics to get a decent control over their power 
or you make it impossible to not cause massive power swings for the champion. (e.g. it allows for both simplistic and complex kit designs to be balanced as opposed to only the complex ones)
Riot wants to increase Sivir's power a tiny amount? Ok, increase that scaling to 60% and now baron gives her 24 bonus damage instead of 20, for 2.5/7 minutes at best. Would this exact example be noticeable to any degree? No, probably not. Though it does demonstrate the point.
When the best build is the only build, the only thing that matters are the best characters played with the best builds.
Despite having 138 champions now and ~150 ways to play the game to some varying degree of victory, when they only had 70, there was probably 120-130 ways to play the game to that same standard.
Professor Ward1 votesOh yeah, for this, it's pretty straight forward. If a champion is designed not maximizing the effectiveness of every aspect of their kit, then every champion can be adjusted around this gradient of effectiveness within their own kit. It allows for more minute and specific balance adjustments to be made. If every skill is maximizing the effectiveness of the same purchases of the champion, then you either need to break up the kit into a million mechanics to get a decent control over their power
Riot wants to increase Sivir's power a tiny amount? Ok, increase that scaling to 60% and now baron gives her 24 bonus damage instead of 20, for 2.5/7 minutes at best. Would this exact example be noticeable to any degree? No, probably not. Though it does demonstrate the point.
When the best build is the only build, the only thing that matters are the best characters played with the best builds.
Despite having 138 champions now and ~150 ways to play the game to some varying degree of victory, when they only had 70, there was probably 120-130 ways to play the game to that same standard.
this all would make sense, for real, if only riot had done this intentionally. Im all for giving sivir ap scaling on her q to make her a late game monster with baron. But i know for 100% fact this isnt why she still has it. For me, that makes this a lingering mistake instead of an option for versatility, or difference in strength givers.
And to be specific, theres just not really a way to give someone "baron scaling" ratios without it being the same case as sivir, terible 99% of the time because they dont build into that stat effectively unless its FREE. Which is the only case being made for sivirs q ratio, FREE 20 ap after 35 mins. Which again, isnt even as good as the free ad she gets from it:D
i get your case for giving champions versatility in all forms. I main awkward rune pages, and aram. It does nothing but increase my fun. But in the case of sivirs q , its just not there.
deadlychuck1 votesActually interesting fact, in 2011, they removed her AP scaling completely (was 75%) but then added it back in at 50% about 2 weeks later. It also dealt magic damage up until they removed the AP scaling. So i think you can say it was intentional.
In her case, I think you could argue that it was more a result of her design and itemization at the time. You really didn't have a good source of mana as AD back then. Yet her spell shield cost her, i think it was, 75 mana at the time and restored 150. So if you wanted to go for a build which focused on utilizing your Q, which would cost you a lot of mana, it allowed you to pick between a defensive option which offered mana or an offensive option which offered mana (as you'd still be getting some degree of offensive power increase from the AP).
Tails90161 votesThis ratio is
a noobtrapfor URF
FTFY
Muzét1 votesIt's from a time where TF had AP yeah and where champions didn't have clear definitions. Just like TF got some AD ratios or Quinn AP Ratio. It was so you could build whatever you wanted to.
DragonShea1 votesWow the shitfeast on page one is real.
Doctor Jarvis1 votesIts for Baron buff, and also to let her build an item like Guinsoo's (for some reason) without feeling like she's wasting some of the stats. I mean sh objectively would be, but that's not the point. I don't think even a brand new player would look at that one AP ratio and go "Hm...Luden's Echo synergy ahoy!" the same way that players don't build AP Renekton even though his ultimate has AP scaling.
