Tahm Kenchs Kit is inherently broken and always will be

HateDaddy··5 votes·332 views

No amount of numbers adjustments will ever fix this. He's either going to be broken OP or trash tier, never in between. His kit doesn't allow for anything in between because of its nature. His shield gives him the ability to absurdly tank so much damage, literally the only way to kill him is by bursting him (good luck he's full tank). He basically absorbs all the damage first, then pops his shield when his HP is low, then backs out around the time his Shields HP is around half. You're basically killing to lifebars at this point, and he's already stacking resistances as it is.

You also have to consider how powerful his ult is in combination with his devour and the little downtime it has. It's cooldown alone at Max rank is ten seconds, meaning with 20-40% CDR, he's sitting on a 6-8 second CD on it. I understand he has to apply 3 stacks before he can eat a enemy but he already has tools to get to a backline WHILE BRINGING someone with him, so applying those stacks isnt a problem. Even if he doesn't get his target killed after spitting them out, he's disabled them and positioned them out if the fight (and done a good chunk of their Max hp in % magic damage). Every draw back that he's supposed to have, he has clear cut answers for. Not to mention he can constantly safe and protect allies too, which makes it extremely frustrating when you've landed a clutch CC spell on a carry only for him to say "nope."

He's also impossible to duel for a good chunk of the roster because you cant kill him. He just outlasts you and burns you down with Max %HP damage that's already really high, so he doesn't even need to itemize spell pen. Just full CDR tank.

There's no way you can balance this kit. Increasing his cooldowns just makes him shit. Reducing his shields strength by any significant margin just makes him shit because he's not able to do his job then (absorb a fuck ton of damage and burn people fown and disrupt) and that's only after he's ulted into a backline.

I'm really perplexed at how a design like this made it to live, he's going to be pick/ban in competitive play instantly. I get making interesting mechanics that bring more to the game but tahms entire design feels like its just full of flashy abilities because why not.

5 Comments

HateDaddy2 votes

Alright gold and below, let's hear some counter arguments as opposed to just downvoting and not responding

DrCyanide4 votes

Your downvotes come from your convoluted reasoning. You start with this:

No amount of numbers adjustments will ever fix this

And yet, how many of your arguments are things that could be adjusted with numbers?


He basically absorbs all the damage first, then pops his shield when his HP is low, then backs out around the time his Shields HP is around half. You're basically killing to lifebars at this point

This could be minimized by a lower percentage of gray health being converted to a shield.

his devour and the little downtime it has. It's cooldown alone at Max rank is ten seconds, meaning with 20-40% CDR, he's sitting on a 6-8 second CD on it.

The cooldown on Devour could be increased so this isn't the case.

I understand he has to apply 3 stacks before he can eat a enemy but he already has tools to get to a backline WHILE BRINGING someone with him, so applying those stacks isnt a problem.

Number of stacks could be increased. Channel time for ultimate with an ally on board could also be increased.

done a good chunk of their Max hp in % magic damage [...] burns you down with Max %HP damage that's already really high

Again, a number that can be reduced.


Your argument is that no possible combination of these number adjustments will bring him into a balanced state? Really?

This guy has a strong identity as a tanky support, no matter where else you might take him. As long as he keeps his utility and can build health/mr/armor, he'll be a viable pick.

I agree that he'll be seeing pick/ban for a while, that his % Max Health damage will probably get lowered, and that the cooldown on Devour will probably increase, but I don't think those nerfs will leave him trash tier.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Your downvotes come from your convoluted reasoning. You start with this:

And yet, how many of your arguments are things that could be adjusted with numbers?


This could be minimized by a lower percentage of gray health being converted to a shield.

The cooldown on Devour could be increased so this isn't the case.

Number of stacks could be increased. Channel time for ultimate with an ally on board could also be increased.

Again, a number that can be reduced.


Your argument is that no possible combination of these number adjustments will bring him into a balanced state? Really?

This guy has a strong identity as a tanky support, no matter where else you might take him. As long as he keeps his utility and can build health/mr/armor, he'll be a viable pick.

I agree that he'll be seeing pick/ban for a while, that his % Max Health damage will probably get lowered, and that the cooldown on Devour will probably increase, but I don't think those nerfs will leave him trash tier.

unless you give him slaps on the wrist, any nerf that is given to him that actually does bring down his level of power is going to just make him trash because he won't be able to stay in fights to apply stacks if you nerf his shield, he won't be able to do much damage if you reduce his % damage by a significant margin and what do you have left? Potential initation? Sure it's strong but that alone won't make him strong. His ability to protect a carry? That won't make him strong. Youre saying everything I said but just saying "no but you can do that!" I covered that already as I stated, those nerfs are just going to make him shit then.

DrCyanide1 votes

Not every tank has to be an initiation-based tank. Look at Braum as an example. I think Tahm will be more of a counter-initiation tank. With enemies jumping at Tahm, he won't have to burn his health/shield getting to the backline. Thus, a weaker shield can be used.

His ult, consequently, will be used for assisting split-pushers back out or for cleaning up after fights, rather than as an initiation.

Nothing says tanks are suppose to do damage while building tanky, so I can easily see Tahm being changed to have lower base %HP for more %HP / AP.

None of these aspects are unheard of in tanks. Nothing says Tahm has to be the tank with 2x HP, crazy utility, and crazy base damage. He can just as easily be the tank with 1.5x HP, crazy utility, and normal or low base damage. Utility is king, and as long Tahm has utility, and can live to use it, he'll be fine. As long as oponents have ways to play around Tahm's utility, or kill him before he can use too much of it, they'll be fine.

Abyssphere1 votes

He is ridiculous. Impossible to balance I'm not totally sure of but his kit is genuinely built to be capable of doing everything well and capable of negating everything the enemy does well. He's a tank that regenerates a huge amount of the poke he takes, so he's essentially impossible to shove out of lane. He's a tank that when focused can pop a shield that essentially gives him a second health bar, making him essentially immune to burst (as if trying to focus down the tank is ever something you should want to be doing in the first place). But he can also make anyone he's standing near immune to burst whenever he wants to... because why not. And he runs away faster when doing that, then spits them out further away, AFTER rendering them untargetable for up to 6 seconds.

There is no ideal way to play against him. He has exceptional poke for a tank support and strong all-ins as a tank support generally has, but he himself is immune to poke and being burst down, while making his ADC immune to being burst down. Lengthy engagements are a strength for him aside from his defensive mechanisms anyway, because he has time to build up stacks. The only thing you can do in lane against him is try to slowly whittle down his ADC but given he's melee... he gets Relic Shield sustain. So that's fruitless too. To add to that he tower dives as well as Alistar because of his shield, he enables allies to tower dive for no retribution (had one enable a Kat to triple under turret at 20% HP recently) and for some godforsaken reason he gains damage for building defense.

I saw a thread not too long ago saying people who want him nerfed are "salty Vi and Zed mains because they finally have a counter". As if people don't have a right to complain about a champion who with an ability that is up every single time he needs it, can negate abilities with cooldowns upwards of 100 seconds. If my champion's main reason to be picked is reliably being able to dive the ADC then no shit I'm going to be upset when a support that can do a million other things anyway can completely invalidate my existence with a basic ability. People complained about the dynamic presented by Kalista's ultimate whereby with certain lanes it's a mistake to focus both her and her support, and then Tahm fanboys laugh at people who have a problem with him creating the same problem on a 10 second cooldown... but being able to save all 4 other members of his team.

Generalist supports are fine but this guy makes Thresh look lacking in options. When did they decide that champions having weaknesses was bad for the game?

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