What the fuck.
Edit: Here was my build,
Not even selling boots for dmp could stop me from getting blown up before he even needed his 4th attack.
had sold many items for other shits like 
just the same result every time.
colesy15 votesyou have one health item and he probably had a lord dominik's
the moment adcs get lord dominik's is when tanks become paper, regardless of how much armour you have stacked
Fondling Gems7 votesAlso pretty sure Ninja Tabi would be mathematically more effective than thornmail at that point. It gives % reduction from autos while the % reduction granted from armour is pretty much nothing after it gets stacked that high.
Buff Jax please5 votes"I cant build full tank and get an automatic win"
Sad indeed.
Dynikus5 votesJhin had 
Dunkrius2g4 votesIt really depends on the jhins build. If he had 
, well works like this, for every 100 bonus armor you have, you automatically lose 45. So im assuming that you have around 500~ bonus armor. Now 45*5= 225 so 587-225= 362. Now this isn't even factoring flat pen or his passive. The lower health you are, the more damage he will deal cuz he deal "The final shot is a guaranteed critical strike that also deals 15 / 20 / 25% of the target's missing health bonus physical damage".
Your build should be this 
if you want the best bang for your gold, although this isnt a good build seeing as how an ap champ can really deal a lot of damage against you. Your team needs to capitalize the fact that you are getting focused by him. Oh yeah, jhin has a lot of AD that can be near to atleast 500-600. Now by 4 shots, that can also mean his ult too.
Curtain Call's damage is increased by 2% for every 1% of the target's missing health, and the Curtain Call Final Shot critically strikes for 100% × (1 + bonus critical damage) bonus damage.
So yeah, you will be getting chunked no matter what. That's the beauty of Season 6
Fondling Gems2 votesI would avoid GA on that Poppy build. If you are building that little dmg then GA is pretty useless as coming back to life at 30% Health doesn't let you really do anything. You really need some Damage threat to make GA a worthwhile buy. Poppy does decent dmg but would benefit more from a Zz'rot, which gives the same raw stats as well as movespeed for lining up your charge and actually escaping when needed. GA just means that your actual death is delayed by a few seconds, it will rarely mean much for a tank. Plus being able to push a side lane without being there is more useful imo.
I do agree with your other points though.
Dunkrius2g1 votesTrue. I completely forgot about zzrot. That is another good item especially with the health regen too. I just don't know why i didn't include it.
Fondling Gems3 votesArmour gives diminishing returns, stacking it that high gives you almost the same dmg reduction as 400. Think you only are reducing dmg by about 4-5% more at that point. Realistically anything above 300-350 depending on champ is pointless, better to stack health. Speaking of which how low were you when he hit you?
W also doesn't give active dmg reduction, it is purely passive. Active only gives speed boost and knockback stops.
Spoofghoul3 voteswith all the armorpen available anything over 200 is pointless honestly
if jhin really was so much of an issue he would have been better off building
and grabbing 
Fondling Gems4 votesHonestly statistically that would be better than his current build. The crit reduction isn't unique so it actually stacks with diminishing returns up to 40%ish crit reduction.
Realistically a build designed purely for dealing with jhin would be something like:
Frozen heart reduces his AS which reduces his AD. Sunfire and IBG give you return dmg as well as both armour and health. Randuins for the health armour and crit reduction, and warmogs for more health. The more health you have the harder it is to get you low which means the less his 4th shot does.
Spoofghoul2 votesno it doesnt even give dimishing returns
your literlly walking around like a perma ulting alistar to these adc's
their crits don't even deal more damage then a regular basic attack
its acually a viable anti AD build as long as their is at least multiple crit users which is kind of rare though.
There are clips of people doing this on youtube a quick search will find you some
The Yetii Rider2 votesno it doesnt even give dimishing returns
your literlly walking around like a perma ulting alistar to these adc's
their crits don't even deal more damage then a regular basic attack
its acually a viable anti AD build as long as their is at least multiple crit users which is kind of rare though.
There are clips of people doing this on youtube a quick search will find you some
Multiple crit users is rare? I see Yasuo mid all the time these days.
Reikken3 votesfyi once you've stacked that much armor, thornmail is actually decent
best build NA
for dueling, anyway
for just living long enough for your teammates to do something, frozen heart is better than a thornmail
Fondling Gems2 votesThornmail is very weak vs Jhin because due to the fact that it has a base dmg + armour % + Enemy dmg % it is more effective vs high AS enemies who proc the base dmg + Armour % more.
WoonStruck5 votesArmor does not have diminishing returns.
You gain a flat 1% increase in EHP for every 1 point of armor/mr.
Here's an example of what you're saying
You have three apples. You buy three more. Then you buy another 3.
You suggest there are diminishing returns because its only a 50% increase in the amount of apples you have for the second purchase.
In actuality, you have three times as many apples as you started out with.
Another example: In Diablo 3, CDR is calculated in multiplicative fashion. This means that if you have two instances of 10% CDR on a 100 second CD ability, you have an 81% CD after CDR is factored in.
Compare this to League where your CDR is totaled, then multiplied by the base CD of an ability.
It appears as if Diablo 3 utilizes diminishing returns, but in actuality you are not getting less CDR with each instance of the stat.
Its merely the difference between additive and multiplicative formulas.
% damage reduction vs physical/magic damage you see in tooltips for armor/mr is simply a coefficient (stand-in value that doesn't actually equate anything) used to make processing the impact easier.
Fondling Gems7 votesmmmmm No.
Go in LoL. get 100 armour. You now get 50% physical dmg reduction. If you get another 100 armour you do not get another 50% physical dmg reduction, you get less. Therefore you are spending the same amount of gold for less physical dmg reduction based on how much physical dmg reduction you currently have. That is diminishing returns.
I am not getting diminishing returns on my armour number true, but that is just a placeholder stat for the final calculation. I am still spending that same amount of gold for a worse and worse value.
I spend 2800 gold for a frozen heart. Currently we don't care about the other stats so we can ignore them. I have just spent 2800 gold for a bit under 50% dmg reduction (ignoring base) If I buy a 2nd one I am only getting 25~% dmg reduction for 2800 gold. Giving me diminishing returns on the value of the armour I got.
Aptest5 votesfondling,
there are no diminishing returns on armor. the % reduced damage is just bad math.
100 armor gives you + X effective HP. depending on your current HP. another 100 armor gives you the same +X effective HP.
I.E. no diminishing returns.
(however once you get 100 armor it's better to get HP to scale with that armor)
Fondling Gems1 votesOk so I read up a bit and it looks like we are both wrong. To truly achieve diminishing returns as one value increases (in this case armour) another value decreases (in this case % dmg reduction) I was mistakenly looking at each 100 bonus armour individually instead of the totals.
However you are wrong that the 2nd 100 armour gives the same +X effective HP as the first 100. If you have 1k hp the first 100 armour would put you at 1500 effective HP. having 200 armour only boosts that to 1750 effective HP giving you less than the first 100.
darkestkhan2 votesNot really... percents are not intuitive. 60% dmg reduction reduces 1000dmg to 400. 75% reduction reduces to 250. You had only 15 percentiles more of dmg reduction yet total effect was almost halfing the dmg received. You need to do math yourself to see this. Though it is moot point - TBC and LW makes armor stacking almost obsolete. Only ninja tabi and randuin are worth anything.
Fondling Gems2 votesPlease note that this comment is copy and pasted because I really don't feel like writing 6 or 7 different posts of apology to you wonderful peeps.
First of all thank you all for correcting me, I apologize for my mistakes. I was completely mistaking the reason as to why Health becomes more efficient than Armour as your Armour stacks. Guess that is what happens when you don't have to do any math outside of programming equations for 2 years. RIP my schoolings. Anyways I apologize, thank you all, and all that junk ;P
Good luck on Le Rift.
Reikken2 votes[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6LAut5y,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-30T10:48:36.511+0000)
However you are wrong that the 2nd 100 armour gives the same +X effective HP as the first 100. If you have 1k hp the first 100 armour would put you at 1500 effective HP. having 200 armour only boosts that to 1750 effective HP giving you less than the first 100.
Incorrect. In the absence of penetration, 1000 hp and 100 armor = 2000 effective hp (as in it would take 2000 raw physical damage to kill you with no penetration). 1000 hp and 200 armor = 3000 effective hp. The damage formula is: damage * 100/(100+armor).
And just to satisfy any curiosity, if the attacker has 45% bonus pen and no flat pen, and you have 90 base armor, then 1000 hp and 100 armor (90+10) = 1955 effective hp. 1000 hp and 200 armor (90+110) = 2505 effective hp. Aaand 1000 hp and 300 armor = 3055 effective hp. That's a 550 increase with each 100 armor. which makes sense since only 55 of your 100 additional armor is counted with the 45% pen.
Fondling Gems1 votesPlease note that this comment is copy and pasted because I really don't feel like writing 6 or 7 different posts of apology to you wonderful peeps.
First of all thank you all for correcting me, I apologize for my mistakes. I was completely mistaking the reason as to why Health becomes more efficient than Armour as your Armour stacks. Guess that is what happens when you don't have to do any math outside of programming equations for 2 years. RIP my schoolings. Anyways I apologize, thank you all, and all that junk ;P
Good luck on Le Rift.
Fondling Gems1 votesPlease note that this comment is copy and pasted because I really don't feel like writing 6 or 7 different posts of apology to you wonderful peeps.
First of all thank you all for correcting me, I apologize for my mistakes. I was completely mistaking the reason as to why Health becomes more efficient than Armour as your Armour stacks. Guess that is what happens when you don't have to do any math outside of programming equations for 2 years. RIP my schoolings. Anyways I apologize, thank you all, and all that junk ;P
Good luck on Le Rift.
DragonShea9 votesNo. you get the illusion of dimishing returns. for example, for every 100 armor you have you another +100% protection from physical damage. so if you have 500 hp and 200 armor, you will get 1500 effective hp. if you think that you reduce damage by 1/4 instead of 1/3 you are dead wrong. it's misleading but armor functions like HP in that it's addictive instead of multiplicative. But remeber armor scales of HP so the more you have the more effective it will be.
Fondling Gems2 votesRead my reply to Aptest, I was wrong but not in that way. Each additional 100 armour you get boosts your effective hp by less and less. Read This to get a comprehensive explanation.
GaleWinUnleashed6 votesNo it doesn't. 100 armor increases your effective health by 100% of your max health, if you ignore armor penetration. Armor does not have diminishing returns. However, the more armor you have, the more effective additional flat health becomes. Armor and health alone are both additive stats, but together they are multiplicative.
Hypothetically, if you have 1000 base health and 0 armor, buying 500 health or 50 armor is the same thing. Buying another 500 health or 50 armor increases your effective health by the same amount again, BUT buying the other one is more effective, because each stacks with the other.
Fondling Gems5 votesPlease note that this comment is copy and pasted because I really don't feel like writing 6 or 7 different posts of apology to you wonderful peeps.
First of all thank you all for correcting me, I apologize for my mistakes. I was completely mistaking the reason as to why Health becomes more efficient than Armour as your Armour stacks. Guess that is what happens when you don't have to do any math outside of programming equations for 2 years. RIP my schoolings. Anyways I apologize, thank you all, and all that junk ;P
Good luck on Le Rift.
Guyy Fieri1 votesIt doesn't matter what its called. The point is that it becomes less efficient than purchasing other items like health.
WoonStruck1 votesIf you have 50 of something, buy 100, and then buy another, you are not experiencing diminishing returns, even if the second instance is +200%, and the third instance is only +66%.
This is in reference to gaining 1% EHP for every point of armor. You are multiplying your health by your armor. At certain thresholds HP becomes more efficient than armor, but there are still no diminishing returns, simply one being more mathematically efficient than the other within certain ranges.
You're talking about a percent value that cannot scale above 100%. capped % returns do not have diminishing returns unless you can flat out obtain % as a base unit of measure and there is something that specifically supplies the diminishing returns (being multiplicative does not), which you cannot in League. They are a unit of representation.
Diminishing returns is when you obtain less of a value for every instance of that value. You do not gain less armor. You do not gain less EHP. Its a 100% hard cap representing the influence of that value that makes it appear as if you're getting less reduction, but you are forgetting that you are not purchasing % reduction. You are purchasing a flat 1% increase in HP vs that damage type for every point of that mitigation stat.
Even though 1000 damage would be mitigated to 500 at 100 armor, and then only 333 at 200 armor, that does not mean you are experiencing diminishing returns because the purpose of armor **is not a flat reduction to damage. ** Its a flat increase (1% of your HP) to your HP vs that damage type for each point purchased.
If you took 50% damage (500) from that 1000 due to obtaining 100 total armor, then bought another 100 armor, you are not experiencing diminishing returns. You are simply adding +100% to your total health vs that damage type (EHP), which brings the damage to 333. 100% (base)+100%+100%. Yes, you get x2 for purchasing the first 100 and only 50% increase for purchasing the second 100, but that's because your % values are getting larger while you are still purchasing flat values. 1+1+1+1+1. 100%, 50%, 33%, 25%, 20%. You are not gaining less. You are not getting less value. You are only seeing scaling while your base 'gain' does not increase by a % with what you already have. You wouldn't say you're experiencing diminishing returns because you aren't gaining +100% for each instance of that '1+1+1+1+1', would you? It doesn't have to be 1+2+3+6+12 in order to avoid diminishing returns because you aren't buying a % increase. You're buying a flat increase.
You gain a flat +100% EHP for every 100 armor; this does not mean you are doubling your EHP every time you buy 100 armor it means you are adding +100% to the total % you had prior (100%(base)+100%+100% is 300%...its not diminishing just because it doesn't achieve 400% [doubling twice]). Since health is multiplied by armor, at some points you are better off buying health rather than armor, but you still do not experience diminishing returns.
They are multiplying into each other; you are not gaining less value out of them, **you are simply seeing the effects of scale. **
Diminishing returns is specifically when you get less of something for every instance of it. You do not get less out of armor when you buy more of it, otherwise % armor reductions would absolutely fuck tanks on a level that we don't even see now.
Do the math and tell me that 50% reduction of somebody's 500 armor means they have less effect than the 250 remaining and I'll believe that there's diminishing returns.
If you can't prove that, then that should be a great example of how you're just seeing scaling values, which does cause your base unit to become 'insignificant' after a point, relative to what you already have, but you are still not experiencing diminishing returns.
+100% isn't a drastic increase if you already have 500%, but it seems huge if you only have 30% as a base; its all relative. You're mistaking that for diminishing returns due to a hard-capped 'imaginary' value representing the overall effect of additive increases.
TL;DR: You're using the wrong value to represent what you're actually purchasing.
Fondling Gems1 votesPlease note that this comment is copy and pasted because I really don't feel like writing 6 or 7 different posts of apology to you wonderful peeps.
First of all thank you all for correcting me, I apologize for my mistakes. I was completely mistaking the reason as to why Health becomes more efficient than Armour as your Armour stacks. Guess that is what happens when you don't have to do any math outside of programming equations for 2 years. RIP my schoolings. Anyways I apologize, thank you all, and all that junk ;P
Good luck on Le Rift.
Malix Farwin1 votes[{quoted}](name=Fondling Gems,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R6LAut5y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-07-30T09:10:33.024+0000)
Armour gives diminishing returns, stacking it that high gives you almost the same dmg reduction as 400. Think you only are reducing dmg by about 4-5% more at that point. Realistically anything above 300-350 depending on champ is pointless, better to stack health. Speaking of which how low were you when he hit you?
W also doesn't give active dmg reduction, it is purely passive. Active only gives speed boost and knockback stops.
actually been playing wround with this build on poppy and it wasnt that bad.
Fondling Gems1 votesSeems about right, I personally can't stand Titanic for some reason, I just don't like the item. I personally would end up replacing that with an early deadmans for better ganks.
Astôlfo2 votesIt'd help if you told us what items he built and then his Runes/Masteries if they had armorpen or such. And I mean, his non-fourth shots don't have % missing health. So them critting is like any other ADC critting. Except Jhin's AD scales off a few different things as well as just AD but has a 25% total damage reduction on his crits as a penalty in return.
Dankstin2 votesUnfortunately the only real good counter to crits is Thornmail, and if you don't have the armor and hp to survive the 4th shot anyway, well you won't see Jhin do much damage to himself if that 4th shot hits you and you die. Funny though, how crit chance/damage is literally the only stat that has no items to counter it. You could say armor does, but it doesn't "counter" it and it doesn't even reduce crit chance. That should be a thing "critical strike damage received" or something.
Fondling Gems2 votesRanduins. It straight up has a stat that reduces crit dmg and it can stack. Thornmail is bad vs Jhin due to his low AS.
Dankstin1 votesThat isn't a stat it's a unique passive.
Fondling Gems2 votesNope, look again. As derpy as it sounds it is true, and it is confirmed to be intended by a Rioter, if you want I will dig up the redit post for you.
kS7jqhxrGi2 votesyou cant get 600 armor with that build nuff said go cry
Sire Hippington2 votesas poppy you can, as she will have 24% increased armor when below 40%hp the items together give roughtly 400, which with runes and base easily gets 500, which with 24% increase is above 600
Malix Farwin2 votesSeen a lot more success building HP over tons of Armor on poppy and i main her. No offense to the OP or anything but i feel like that build is really bad.
The Loveless2 votesShit build. Needed cape & gauntlets.
MunchCrunchLunch2 votesbecause of the adc itemization. adc can counter you by itemizing against you. YOU. HOWEVER. can't. because IS SHIT. we have no way to apply grevious wounds as tank building champions. damage gives increasing and increasing output meanwhile building tanky becomes less and less worthwhie
Quepha1 voteswith my W active
You had low health against a champion with an execute ratio What did you expect was going to happen?
l Helios l1 votesPhysical damage reduction falls off after 350 I believe, whatever gives 75% reduction. Ends up being diminishing returns after that. Besides, this is an ADC who gets > 700 AD in most games and will crit for 250% of that value with IE.
WoonStruck5 votesThere is no soft cap or diminishing returns for reductions.
If you have 3000 HP, buying 180 
doesn't seem significant.
Its the same with armor. If you have 3000 HP and you have 300 armor, you have 12000 EHP vs physical. Buying another 100 armor gives you another 3000 HP vs physical damage. Absolutely no diminishing returns involved.
Armor is the same as HP, just represented in a different light.
If you don't think you get diminishing returns from the flat HP you purchase, you do not get diminishing returns from armor either. You are buying flat 'EHP', where each point of armor supplies equal 'HP' to 1% of your actual HP in total health vs that damage type.
The % damage reduced tooltip is very misleading and is causing way too many people to mistake efficiency with diminishing returns.
l Helios l4 votesOh well. I was misled.
Second point remains valid. In addition, sounds like the OP just wants an outlet to cry through. Odds are high if he's playing Poppy and getting popped like that without killing the Jhin then the Jhin is either very good or he's playing Poppy wrong.
WoonStruck1 votesGA doesn't matter unless you have significant pressure of some kind, usually damage is all that warrants its use.
Its a literally useless item on no-damage poppy. An IBG would have been better.
Talisman on poppy? How about no. Buy Ninja Tabi instead. Damage he takes occurs before your mitigation, so Tabi both increases Thornmail and makes you take much less damage from him.
Randuins would have been much better than Zz'rot portal. Crit reduction is invaluable late game vs a crit ADC, not to mention the attack speed and active slows.
Hell, sunfire>DMP unless he's kiting you too effectively (which is hard to believe as poppy).
If Jhin was that much of an issue, I would have had my team trying to close out the magic damage threat and rambo'd on Jhin every teamfight.
That said, can't wait for the Jhin+Ashe nerfs either. Especially since Ghostblade is probably getting hit at the same time to slow down Lucian and its other users.
agbudar1 votesalright here is what you should do
are ESSENTIAL to counter adc with crit. ninja's lowers their base atack damage and thus lowers what gets multiplied by crit as far as i understand it.
and if magic damage is no issue... then your build should have been as follows.
.
enough health to deal with big numbers and tons of armor to deal with anything related to ad
WoonStruck1 votesNope, you need IBG for some CDR and damage so that you're actually a threat to squishies.
You'd do more damage with IBG than you would with thornmail; the 20% CDR+constant sheen procs is well worth the loss of 50 or 60 armor, not to mention how it mitigates Jhin's kiting.
higura1 votesyea rez isn`t worth it, your better off just going full hp tank with ...even on support 
