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Dodge vs Crit.

greekvandaL··3 votes·629 views

Dodge used to be a defencive RNG stat that allowed you to dodge autoattacks without doing anything on your part aside buying it.

Rito gems thought this was toxic thus removed it pretty fast if i recall right.

Crit is a offencive rng element that allows said champ that bought it to make his auto attacks go from dps to burst without them doing anything or taking any skill aside from buying it just like dodge.

Crit and dodge are the same toxic principles whereas the one is defencive the other is offencive. Yet Crit has remained over the years even tho it consistently breaks a lot of champs named MB2 champs. oh sorry i'm joking i mean the MARKSMAN class and a few others like Rengar ( crit build was toxic ) Yi/Yas etc etc. On top of that it has and never had any counterplay. The only thing you could ever do it try and reduce it a bit. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DODGE IT even if you are challenger and he is a plat player he can still kill you simply with autoattacks under the right circumastances.

SO WHY THE FUCK DO YOU KEEP THIS SKILLLESS RNG INTO THE GAME for so long.

OH i know i know. We favor adcs over everything. I'm sorry i forgot how the games work.

We make adcs the gods of the game and keep tanks the second best. Tanks have been buffed to godmodes over the last years to be able to deal with adcs but considering adcs are at a power level of 100 and you make tanks at a powerlevel of 80 to allow them to deal with them you let every other class to 50. aka GARBAGE. There was a time where you could pick Darius into any tank and win because HE COUNTERS THEM. Yet now shit like Ornn Galio Maokai Rammus Malphite can pretty much rape him ( yeah they do i've havent had any problem shitting even on high tier Darius players as an ex Darius main myself. It's purely sadness.

Oh and we even gutted assasins and right now they are relevant because of a gimped item that works on every single ad champion anyway. So now as soon as adcs hit 3 items tank also become irrelevant unless the enemy has full ad and you can go triple armor early. Cause 2 armor items are like nothing to a 3 item adc.

Fix your shit and remove anyone below diamond from your balance team.

13 Comments

Teridax684 votes

While I am by no means whatsoever willing to defend crit, I think dodge was in many ways an even worse stat because it provided complete damage nullification, whereas crit adds bonus damage. In this respect, crit tends to be more consistent, or at least used to be prior to certain special interactions, because you always ended up dealing the same additional damage. Dodge, by contrast, could block any basic attack, but also powerful on-hit or on-attack effects, so there was a lot more variance to what it could block. In addition, crit as a stat synergizes with other autoattack stats, whereas dodge anti-synergizes with health, armor and MR, since the more dodge you get, the less valuable those stats become, as they only apply to hits you don't dodge. Both give lots of power based on RNG rather than gameplay, and I agree that this is a sufficient enough reason to remove or rework crit, but I do think dodge was the worse stat, and absolutely deserved to be removed as soon as it was.

As an aside, I would also advise against the kind of offensive tone and language employed in the OP. Stuff like random lines in all caps, direct and awkward transcription of oral expressions into text, and calls to seriously affect the jobs of actual employees all comes across as unreasonable, and isn't conducive to the best discussion because it feels more like you're venting, rather than truly trying to start a productive conversation. If you want to make an argument for removing crit, that is fine, but do try to word it in a way that puts everyone on your side, instead of drawing oppositional lines in the sand and voicing your frustrations in a manner more conducive to conflict than constructive exchange.

greekvandaL3 votes

Well thought answer and i agree to your points.

Yet nah i won't really try that hard to post a perfect thread on the NA boards lol come on. Half the playerbase doesnt understand the basics why would i bother going into in depth for them. Also i AM venting to an extent cause for the last 2 years adcs have ruined and made the game completely anti fun for everyone else.

Teridax682 votes

Personally, when I'm unsure if someone I'm talking to is fully aware of the fundamentals of what I'm explaining to them, I prefer to take the time to explain those basics too in greater detail, just to make sure we're all on the same page. Sometimes people take it badly if they feel they're being treated like they're ignorant, but in general it tends to help a lot in setting a clear discussion, and also tends to show goodwill in working with others towards a common goal.

And yeah, I totally feel you about the current state of the game. Ever since Preseason 6, I've taken some distance from the game because I really don't enjoy its current pacing, and I also feel many recent balancing and design decisions (including the balancing of marksmen) have made the game less fun for me overall. I also find it incredibly frustrating that this is a sentiment shared by a great deal many other players, including on the Boards, on Reddit, even on YouTube (look at how Sp4zie, once one of the most dedicated League content creators, fell out of love with League), yet one that doesn't really feel like it's being listened to by Riot, who continues to double down on what seems to be a not-so-popular direction for their game, and repeats many of the same mistakes in the process. It often doesn't really feel like Riot listens or cares as much as they did in the past, a fact made worse by the attitude some Rioters have on the Boards, and that just makes the state of League all the more frustrating.

Because of this, it often feels all too easy to be able to just pop down to the Boards, drop a rant or even just a couple of lines on how X feature sucks, and get a hundred upvotes overnight in agreement. But I personally still believe that we as players can still have an impact on this game, and that if we have a complaint it will always be better to voice it constructively, and hold ourselves back when we feel like we just want to vent at Riot. There are Rioters who do genuinely go on the Boards and even respond to some threads, so if even one of our posts gets their attention, it will be much better if that post had a valuable message beyond just anger at a certain game feature. Venting just clogs the Boards and denies visibility to these threads, while achieving little of their own beyond very short-term personal relief. I'm not asking you to make every single one of your posts a multi-paragraph constructive essay, but if you really do feel like you want to say something, and that something will not lead to productive discussion, it might be better to type what you want to say in a text file, leave it for later, then come back to it and see if you want to rewrite it in some way on here, if at all.

greekvandaL2 votes

mhmm touche well put.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

However dodge only applied to auto-attacks; further encouraging teams to be diverse, having a couple champions not reliant on auto-ing everything, such as mages, back when mages were considered a carry.

Teridax681 votes

This is true, and the loss of dodge effectively means that there is no generalized anti-autoattack mechanic, whereas spell shields continue to exist. I do think there are ways of encouraging diversity that should not rely on ultra-targeted counters like those, but I agree that currently it's very difficult to have true compositional diversity, due to how the marksman-support duo bot combo is essential to every team, and thereby takes up two of the five available champion slots with very predictable picks. I'd personally very much want to have true non-marksman carries, namely mage, fighter, even tank, assassin or support carries, and while reinstating a mechanic like dodge would likely not really achieve that goal, rebalancing classes and adjusting some of their design could help.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

Indeed, and more or less, agreed. The problem with the vast majority of metas is that they've been pretty stale from little variance over the years; adc and support bottom, mage or assassin middle, some kind of fighter top lane, and a someone who can fight from behind as a jungler to give his laners a surprise advantage. There used to be more variety in the first couple seasons, until riot started getting excited about shoving esports into their methodology, which drew in hordes of inflexible sheep trying to copy cat 'pros'. And in turn as riot expanded and replaced people, they started enforcing it, subtly at first but with increasingly crippling changes as time has gone on.

But enough rambling about the past, I'm not paid for that nor will most people double check through the patch notes, lol. For the dodge mechanic . . . I did think of an idea to reimplement it though I'll avoid exact numbers for obvious reasons. I made a post about intangibility quite a while back and what I propose is to swap intangibility with dodge. Most champions that have intangibility are assassin style, hit and run champions trying to take out a squishy carry swiftly before getting gunned down; however as it is, intangibility denies nearly all damage and crowd control taken, the only exceptions being channeled abilities, letting them screw over several classes they should be vulnerable to. With them having dodge instead, it would make them vulnerable to aoe while allowing them the chance/ability to counter auto-attack focused champions. Obviously jax already does this, but considering he was and has been kept the premier dodger, similar to soraka being the medic champion; the others would be on some kind of weaker gradient, or altered functionality, such as how sona and taric restore their team compared to soraka. For an example to this theory in practice, I'll use kayn, specifically his ultimate but referencing his basic abilities. Since he can go through walls as an ability, he could be immune to displacement effects during his dodge and avoid auto-attacks; but instead of becoming intangible on his ultimate, he could shadow an enemy like how warwick's jaws of the beast functions. However for the sake of balance, non-auto-attack damage is dealt as normal, and I'd say any other crowd control he gets hit with during his ultimate, is delayed until he stops shadowing them. So he'd be encouraged to take on single opponents instead of diving an enemy team, and being stuck after his dirty deed. Meanwhile his victim is running around trying to run from him, or hoping it wasn't enough to kill and trying to time their counter attack for the end of his ultimate.

Hethalean1 votes

My guess is that crit was an ADC (+yasuo but it's less RNG on him) mechanic, and dodge was on only a couple of champions. A lot harder to rework a list of 20 champions to balance them without crit (without also throwing the rest of the AD item balance to the sky) than one or two champions (all I recall is Jax) with dodge just on their kit + the armor boots

zenkai45112 votes

Dodge was a part of every champion, you could build dodge chance on anyone.

Hethalean1 votes

Was it because of the boots? What other items provided it?

zenkai45112 votes

Ninja Tabi and Phantom Dancer gave dodge. Also there were dodge runes.

TrikzterzArma1 votes

Well, dodge allowed you to dodge damage from ALL enemies, where crit only increases your own damage. And you only had to buy dodge to have it, and with critical you still actually has to attack the enemies.

Colton1471 votes

Jax Shen

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