If riot plans on making twisted tree line part of major rewards

PhantomGG··91 votes·3,193 views

Than perhaps it's time they put into consideration of re balancing it and hiring a balance/design team for it. This year was probabbly the first year, where you got a really cool concept/reward for being gold or higher in twisted tree line. That being said, if Riot plans on doing this every year, which I have nothing against, perhaps it is time Riot revists the tree line and go start doing special balancing and re designing for it. Twisted tree line has a long list of flaws I won't go to deep into details. But to name a few one of the biggest that the game is basically over the moment first tower falls, another, playing jungle on that map feels heavily reliant on having good laners.

That being said, if Twisted tree line is going to be part of the rewards than I firmly believe it's time Riot stops forgetting it's an actual game mode, and start giving it proper balancing and adjustments. Riot always says they wanted to make a "new game" Twisted tree line is probabbly their best attempt at it, so why not just properly invest resources into it.

63 Comments

deadlychuck46 votes

TT should probably be their 20-35 minute game mode, and SR be their 35-45 minute game mode.

Yordle Xayah10 votes

I'd watch TT Tournaments... hell, pros should play TT at All Stars

YoungFarmer5 votes

I stopped enjoying the twisted tree line when they added the extra turrets, just made it a lot less fun for me personally.

Automated Riven5 votes

I quit playing when they removed wards and changed the map. The old map was way more fun and the lack of wards is frustrating.

JPLangley9 votes

[deleted]

Automated Riven4 votes

Traditional wards yes. but wards could be tailored to the new map without being broken.

JPLangley1 votes

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Automated Riven1 votes

Your thinking traditional wards. Not wards created for TT not SR

Quepha1 votes

like making them only last a few seconds but having a wider radius and longer range?

Automated Riven1 votes

I like the idea of directional wards. IE it shows a specific direction like kalistas w. Something like that just stagnate and a little bit longer range.

Quepha3 votes

What purpose would a directional ward serve? The enemy is only going to come through a corridor from a single direction. It's functionally exactly the same as a regular ward.

Automated Riven1 votes

If it didn't reveal the entire corridor then it would be fine. Also on it wards should probably be visible.

Quepha5 votes

Then it would be actually worthless, you aren't thinking your ideas through in the slightest.

Glory ln Death1 votes

As a Sion main who enjoys Full AD Sion from time to time, I feel that the lack of wards on TT is an excellent decision by Riot.

JPLangley1 votes

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Glory ln Death1 votes

Because no wards means more 900 damage Q cheese.

rework trundle5 votes

It would be great to tone down favored champions in this mode (on the top of my head I can think of Brand, his Q is easier to hit since it's smaller, and his passive is harder to dodge for the same reason).

Nasus gains 6 stacks per CS in Howling Abyss, nothing retains Riot from giving some TT-only buffs/nerfs to other champions.

Ariel the Cruel15 votes

Nasus gains 6 stacks per CS in Howling Abyss, nothing retains Riot from giving some TT-only buffs/nerfs to other champions.

Actually, there is. A while back Riot announced that their official policy was to only balance SR because other maps will naturally have their own tier lists. They will only intercede if a champion loses core functionality (Ex.: Shyvana gaining passive stacks on Vilemaw.)

50000000000000001 votes

There are some small changes, but they reversed a lot of TT specific balancing (Syndra and Wukong ult cooldown, iirc). I mostly agree with this change, but I think at least the itemization should be different to use that as the map specific balancing lever instead.

Ariel the Cruel5 votes

Itemization is slightly different. item 3090 item 3170 item 3104 all TT exclusive.

. . .Though I do remember how long it took them to fix the missing crit on Van Damm's last iteration. (>_>)

LichKing2342 votes

i miss item 3185 its only seen now on asceion like this item gave darius passive on crit (no stacking bleeds) plus i think it scaled better than darius passive not to mention you could see traps and when using the active you could see invisible champs

FireGryph5 votes

During my two-and-a-half week run through TT to get gold and the chroma, the biggest issues I ran into were the lack of QoL updates that SR has gotten, such as no global reveal of vilemaw timer, and the jungle monster models being horrid and clipping into each other. Numerous times I was jungling and smote the small golem instead of the larger one simply because they stand inside of each other, and during attack animations I would end up clicking on the small one's arm sticking up through the larger's head, or some such silliness.

A quick run-over of the map to bring it up to date on par with SR wouldnt be that tough, would it? Really just some QoL changes would be fantastic if they intend to keep TT around for whatever reason. Give it the new jungle monsters, for example. If they dont give it any love at all, why not send it the way of dominion/crystal scar? Its like OhmWrecker... for how long does it need to be utterly ignored before its just sent to the scrap heap?

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

If they dont give it any love at all, why not send it the way of dominion/crystal scar?

Because Riot won't remove maps with healthy queues, "Like SR, ARAM, and Rotating Game Mode." (>_>)

(Actual statement made around the time they removed Dominion.)

420 grams5 votes

I just want my damn mastery tokens on it

Quepha3 votes

{quoted}

One of the biggest that the game is basically over the moment first tower falls

Sounds like an exaggeration, just like how people say the same thing about Summoner's Rift. It also sounds completely based in imagination as an individual turret provides much less in TT than it does in SR. There's no first turret bonus, it doesn't open up a lot of jungle paths, there isn't as much space between the first and second turrets.

another, playing jungle on that map feels heavily reliant on having good laners.

Sounds exactly like Summoner's Rift.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Turrets

Fun trivia: outer turrets were added to make squishier champions viable. Literally, their entire purpose was to give ADC's a place to hide during the first few minutes. Which is also why they are traditionally weaker.

Kloqdq1 votes

Also important to note on that first point but this game mode can be staled out HARD. Teams that can stale can get even quickly because the winning team doesn't have enough objectives or places to be. They can only get Vile'maw or push forward.

Rift you can do Rift, Baron, Dragons, jungle, and the map is so big you can rotate a lot better (harder for a team to respond if you are quicker).

YoungFarmer2 votes

Wait there is a reward for twisted tree line ranked?????

Devalic1 votes

You get chroma for victories graves

YoungFarmer1 votes

{quoted}

You get chroma for victories graves

Is it spooky tree line themed?

JPLangley1 votes

[deleted]

YoungFarmer1 votes

{quoted}

It's the navy blue vest variant.

Thank you for informing me that is in-fact not worth my time. :*

Kloqdq2 votes

I have always been a huge supporter of putting more into Twisted Treeline. It is easily one of my favourite modes and it's fast paced and offer a lot more niche and special comps overall. It really sucks that TT is so neglected because it has a ton of potential. Not to mention that it is basically all the basics of Rift but condensed into a faster environment. It really sucks for people that want to play some champions because they aren't balanced at all for TT and the map has several key problems that need to be balanced.

It has a ton of potential and Riot can easily take advantage of it. Champions, straits and such shouldn't be left to rot because Riot forgets the mode exists until it's relevant.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Eh...

I don't want them to put resources into that, tbh. I don't see what's wrong with throwing one chroma to the people that love the mode. It doesn't obligate them to make it a priority. It's a simple way to show appreciation for something that they enjoy, and it's a nice gesture for Riot to acknowledge it.

The fact is, everyone acts like they can just simply put more resources into TT and it won't cost anything. That simply isn't true. If they put resources into TT, those resources are coming from the rest of the game.

Quepha7 votes

It obligated me to make it a priority even though I didn't want to play the mode.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

It didn't. At all.

There's no penalty for not playing it. It's just a chroma for graves.

Quepha10 votes

You lie. Having an incomplete set of chromas which I could have obtained is a penalty. Looking at that empty space for the rest of my life and having that failure stare me in the face would have haunted me. I was obligated to play a game mode I did not wish to play.

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

Meanwhile... Riot makes missions require playing on SR, which many non-SR players simply don't wish to play.

Quepha6 votes

I also believe the missions system has gotten completely out of hand. It is exactly what Riot said it should never become.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

You failed to mention how tiny the map is and how it favors high mobility or bruisers who can survive AoE in chokes. If you aren't tanky you won't capture the points easily, if you're slow you're easy to gank given it takes 5s to cross lanes and you won't keep up with rotations. So many issues with the map aren't even item or pacing based as much as most champions are screwed just off the basic map design.

PhantomGG1 votes

{quoted}

You failed to mention how tiny the map is and how it favors high mobility or bruisers who can survive AoE in chokes. If you aren't tanky you won't capture the points easily, if you're slow you're easy to gank given it takes 5s to cross lanes and you won't keep up with rotations. So many issues with the map aren't even item or pacing based as much as most champions are screwed just off the basic map design.

Failed? I said flat out I didn't want to go to deep into details lol, if I wanted to list everything wrong about twisted tree line, I would need 3-10 microsoft pages

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

{quoted}

Failed? I said flat out I didn't want to go to deep into details lol, if I wanted to list everything wrong about twisted tree line, I would need 3-10 microsoft pages

Thats fine but I feel its probably the largest issue, its been prevalent ever since its inception

Like Mundo and Singed were must pick/ban and triple bruisers were meta since the beginning of the mode. All the specialized adc/mage items definitely adds some options but you still have to pick something that has good range or good mobility just because of the shape of the map.

Hell playing a jungler feels like trash on that map because there's no pathing like SR has, you have a circle of 3 camps and no other parts of the jungle other than a boss you need 3 people and a lot of time to take down that's often ignored. There's so many things you could fix by adding more neutral space to the map.

PhantomGG2 votes

{quoted}

Thats fine but I feel its probably the largest issue, its been prevalent ever since its inception

Like Mundo and Singed were must pick/ban and triple bruisers were meta since the beginning of the mode. All the specialized adc/mage items definitely adds some options but you still have to pick something that has good range or good mobility just because of the shape of the map.

Hell playing a jungler feels like trash on that map because there's no pathing like SR has, you have a circle of 3 camps and no other parts of the jungle other than a boss you need 3 people and a lot of time to take down that's often ignored. There's so many things you could fix by adding more neutral space to the map.

off topic on topic, A diamond on twisted tree lines told me basically what happens is that they end up duo jungling in the early levels chosing a target to fuck over on one of the lanes. Jungling I feel is a must, but it just feels miserable on low elo in twisted tree line, if your laners lose, the enemy jungler takes all your camps, if your laners are over pushing, ganking feels impossible. Your entire stratagy as a jungler is one hundred percent dictated by how your laners are playing, in summoners rift as a jungler you have way more options.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

{quoted}

off topic on topic, A diamond on twisted tree lines told me basically what happens is that they end up duo jungling in the early levels chosing a target to fuck over on one of the lanes. Jungling I feel is a must, but it just feels miserable on low elo in twisted tree line, if your laners lose, the enemy jungler takes all your camps, if your laners are over pushing, ganking feels impossible. Your entire stratagy as a jungler is one hundred percent dictated by how your laners are playing, in summoners rift as a jungler you have way more options.

Yeah and the capture points even incentivize counter jungling to stomp all over the enemy jungle

Like I feel like just adding 1-2 camps and some brush botside or something around the vilemaw would ease a lot of this, I understand changing the map shape is one of the harder things to do since it opens up bugs/phsyics issues though for the mode to be balanced at all I think its necessary

Minarde1 votes

if your laners lose, the enemy jungler takes all your camps, if your laners are over pushing, ganking feels impossible. Your entire stratagy as a jungler is one hundred percent dictated by how your laners are playing, in summoners rift as a jungler you have way more options.

Personally I feel like it's the opposite. You don't have nearly as much impact on SR because things are simply too far apart. If your laners are floundering on TT, they're close enough for you to help them out. If your laners are pushing, you can work with them to lane gank or invade. Meanwhile on SR, it feels impossible to keep up in farm while constantly running across the map.

Solidair31 votes

It would probably be best to spell out all of the issues so that Riot could potentially make actionable change.

That being said, I wouldn't hope for this during preseason at the very least, they'll have all focus on rune and champ balance.

PhantomGG1 votes

{quoted}

It would probably be best to spell out all of the issues so that Riot could potentially make actionable change.

That being said, I wouldn't hope for this during preseason at the very least, they'll have all focus on rune and champ balance.

It would be best, but you see, people have the tendancy to do this.

-"if i disagree with you, i'm going to downvote and call you a moron, instead of having a calm discussion

-"your post is to long so I won't read"

-ORRR, you write a super well written post, that's well organized with lots of details, but if you say a SINGLE THING, literally a SINGLE THING they find wrong, shit hits the fan

It's much safer on the league of legends forums to keep your posts at most 2 paragraphs, keep it precise, on topic, and to avoid discussing about balancing of what you believe the answer is, but instead to state the obvious things.

For example I personally believe Dragon should be added to the bottom side of the map, I also believe the jungle should be made somewhat like a maze with a lot of travel points and walls and tunnels, to give junglers more options in how to gank.

I also believe twisted tree line should be given it's completely own set of balancing. For example let's say Kayn has ____ Ad on tree line but ____ AD on summoners rift.

I also believe Riot should remove a large list of champions away from tree line and instead rework champions in patches of 10 each to be reintroduced into twisted tree line.

However if anyone disagrees with that, I will get downvoted, and than people will call me a idiot, and my intention for people to discuss about twisted tree line and bring awareness will be ruined.

to be honest the league of legends forums is absolute cancer filled with bronzie idiots who know nothing about balancing and game play design. If I had a dollar for every time I saw a "FUCK THIS GAME ITS BASED OFF LUCK NOT SKILL" type posts, id be a fucking millionare.

in short it's better to make 2 paragraph short posts while stating the obvious to bring awareness of a issue vs going into detail and risk being downvoted by bronzies.

Don't believe me? literally every post that's "hot" right now in game play is no longer than two paragraphs. Hell one of them is just a single sentence. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7fBUzN2p-heres-a-zoe-combo-i-was-thinking

SoundChaosDebug1 votes

Twisted Treeline has had a serious bot issue for coming up on 3 years or longer, winter is here my friends.

They need to remove the artificial intelligence IP selling accounts before they even think about including this sub genre of the game.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

I think it's more of just giving to those who play it Ranked, than encouraging people to play it in general.

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