Old Galio only useful for flash taunt, new Galio only useful for flash taunt

Moody P·Jun 18, 2019·61 votes·19,566 views

The difference is that new Galio gets to maintain a 44% win for the average Joe so that he can be tolerable in pro play where his flash taunt and ultimate are strongest. He's borderline trolling as a solo laner but he has a comfy new home in support

Can we start to admit that maybe this VGU wasn't great, considering his insane generalist utility on a champion who is meant to satisfy a niche fantasy, and perhaps it's time for another adjustment to the champion? There's a lot you could do to put him in a more acceptable spot

82 Comments

GreenKnightJun 18, 201934 votes

Pff, people will admit that his rework was a mistake only if some popular pro player would point that out.

Velzard of KozJun 18, 201918 votes

People have been bitching about him as mistake for long. Whenever they try to buff him and he appears midlane he's a problem. That's not some subtle problem. Last time they tried to bring him back into meta there were few posts reminding it's a bad idea. It was a bad idea.

And also speaking non-gameplay, a lot of people complained they outright made a brand new champion with brand new character and brand new story and called him Galio.

GreenKnightJun 18, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QxoiAVEo,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-18T13:57:19.212+0000)

People have been bitching about him as mistake for long. Whenever they try to buff him and he appears midlane he's a problem. That's not some subtle problem. Last time they tried to bring him back into meta there were few posts reminding it's a bad idea. It was a bad idea.

And also speaking non-gameplay, a lot of people complained they outright made a brand new champion with brand new character and brand new story and called him Galio.

You don't have to tell me that, i was extremely opposed to his removal.

Velzard of KozJun 18, 20192 votes

I am telling that because of your sentiment that people need pro player to say that. They don't. Rarely I see someone considering the rework to be masterpiece or even at least good.

Sebastit7dJun 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Pff, people will admit that his rework was a mistake only if some popular pro player would point that out.

This reminds me of Yuumi. Shortly after the hotfix, people were still calling her an insta-loss whenever anyone would pick her, so far as to blame losses on her despite a lot of other players doing worse, then a couple of weeks later "oMg YuUmI iS sO bRoKeN" even though they hadn't touched her after the hotfixes but they saw their streamers complain about her. I played her since release so watching it develop like that was hilarious.

SEKAIJun 18, 201917 votes

Galio was trashed by the balance team, not the VGU team.

Moody PJun 18, 201920 votes

The VGU team doing a sloppy job and giving him such a loaded kit is why he has to be trashed.

SEKAIJun 18, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QxoiAVEo,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-18T11:27:02.333+0000)

The VGU team doing a sloppy job and giving him such a loaded kit is why he has to be trashed.

He was trashed because he was in pro play but he's not on RIot's list of favourtism, not because his kit was overly overloaded. He's literally only ever in the pro play because of his ulti, given that acts as a initiator and safety net and thus highly sought after in organised play.

Moody PJun 18, 20198 votes

OP already points out that he is valuable as a support for his W flash and the impact it has. Everything else you've said is slinging mud at Riot.

D357R0Y3RJun 18, 20192 votes

it's funny because whenever you point out what sekai said about galio to certainlyt champions (not certainlyt's fault, but the balance team's fault) he would say the same thing you said there

the VGU team doing a sloppy job and giving him such a loaded kit is why he has to be trashed.

SEKAIJun 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

it's funny because whenever you point out what sekai said about galio to certainlyt champions (not certainlyt's fault, but the balance team's fault) he would say the same thing you said there

Because if Galio is overloaded, Shen also is by that logic, given they are picked in tournaments, and then nerfed out of tournaments, for the exact same reasons. Obviously, they aren't overloaded. They just have kits that have elements highly sought after in tournaments, and Riot doesn't like Shen and Galio I guess.

Which is a point I made far before you wrote this post, but obvs you clearly don't read or else you couldn't smear as effectively if you present my arguments as it is amirite?

D357R0Y3RJun 18, 20193 votes

galio was overloadead af and forced the balance team to remove too many features of his kit

fact that you can't see it is too much for me

SEKAIJun 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

galio was overloadead af and forced the balance team to remove too many features of his kit

fact that you can't see it is too much for me

So are you implying that Shen is overloaded just as Galio supposedly is, given the very clear fact they were both picked in pro and then trashed for the exact same reason?

Or maybe you know, Galio wasn't trashed because he's "overloaded"? And even if he was, it wasn't the reason why he's trashed, but his AoE taunt and his ulti, the exact same reason why Shen was trashed?

Fact that you can't see it is too much for me.

D357R0Y3RJun 18, 20193 votes

Shen didn't have features from his kit being removed

or he did and I forgot them, can you teach me what was removed?

on the other side, galio lost his %hp damage on Q, then got it back in exchange of removing ult %damage reduction, oh and W physical damage reduction, oh and E waveclear. OH AND ULT ENHANCED KNOCK UP. the balance team just didn't know what to remove and tried to add restrictions/remove things from his kit, because of how a FUCKING mess he is.

SEKAIJun 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Shen didn't have features from his kit being removed

or he did and I forgot them, can you teach me what was removed?

on the other side, galio lost his %hp damage on Q, then got it back in exchange of removing ult %damage reduction, oh and W physical damage reduction, oh and E waveclear. OH AND ULT ENHANCED KNOCK UP. the balance team just didn't know what to remove and tried to add restrictions/remove things from his kit, because of how a FUCKING mess he is.

Shen was reworked and have his Vorpal Blade exchanged for his shitty spirit blade gimmick. In removing his Vorpal Blade, Shen lost his regen sustain (that could be exploited for team-wide sustain), and lost his ranged poke, as well as his ranged last hit when things aren't going his way; all of that to exchange for an AA mod, turning him into a literal stat-check (literally just run up to people to AA them and see who comes up top) in a rework that supposedly was set out to tune down his supposed stat-checkiness.

But it doesn't matter, because Shen was trashed in balance not because of his lane sustain or whatever, but specifically because of his AoE taunt and ally TP.

This is the exact same for Galio. Whatever the rest of Galio's reworked kit was, it was NOT the reason why Galio was trashed by the balanced team, as the reason behind the trashing is centrally lying with his AoE taunt and ally TP ulti, just like Shen.

They were both trashed because their team utility was deemed too high in coordinated play, according to the balance team's standard that is. That is the end of this, everything else is but just wrong pretending to sound smart.

D357R0Y3RJun 18, 20194 votes

idc about his rework new shen didn't get features removed like new galiko

SEKAIJun 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

idc about his rework new shen didn't get features removed like new galiko

Shen had half of his kit changed, and I just told you that he had at least 1 major aspect of his old kit removed.

And it doesn't matter anyway, because the reason to Shen's and Galio's trashing was to do with their utility first and foremost and have little to do with supposed overloadedness. I have repeated this point multiple times already, and no amount of dismissal or goalpost moving (which reply seems to be doing) is going to change it.

/thread

D357R0Y3RJun 18, 20195 votes

shen AFTER his rework didn't have features removed

I can't tell if you're forcing yourself to not understanding right now because it's starting to be embarassing REALLY hard.

Galio after his rework, turned overloaded and got things removed

shen AFTER his rework did not AFTER NOT before

D357R0Y3RJun 18, 20192 votes

they added restrictions to his kit XD? how am I supposed to understand that his kit wasn't overloaded when they added damage reduction on creeps, different values for physical damage/ magical damage on W? this just doesn't work and then removed damage reduction on ult, and enchanced knock up?

Shen was trashed out of pro play, unless ofc, you believe Shen is also an "overloaded" champion

I don't give A SINGLE ** ABOUT SHEN DUDE, jesus after this whole discussion you didn't realize that?

the only thing I care about in this thread talking about galio is galio himself the rework made him too overloaded

then they removed features to make him less overloaded because his kit had too much in it

and then, the core of his design (being an assassin+tank+support in 1) is still an issue especially when hhe should be a damn anti mage, but ends up being an anti assassin with all his anti-melees mechanics.

garbage trash vgu

ThefrostyvikingJun 19, 20191 votes

....Removed features from his kit? Which ones?

I know Akali and Irelia lost features but i dont recall others like Swain or Galio ever actually losing "features", more like numbers.

Chem toxicityJun 19, 20191 votes

If you read through the comments you'll see. But I honestly dont care, galio is in a better state than shaco will ever be at this point.............

Death by GlamourJun 18, 20192 votes

tbf it was the balance team afterwards that completely buffed the crap out of his damage and had to hotfix it 3 days afterwards if I remember correctly.

RagnaveilJun 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Galio was trashed by the balance team, not the VGU team.

idk why you got downvoted. The balance team in the end is the one who decides the numbers.

Sire HippingtonJun 18, 20193 votes

Because some issues lie beyond mere numbers? In the case of Gallio, you have his fantasy of beeing a mage/tank hybrid clashing with the shit ton of utillity that was stuffed into his kit makeing it impossible to give him good numbers without running into issues at higher elos. Either you have the current lowsih numbers which means all his utillity makes for a good tank-support but he lacks the numbers for anything else, or you need to actually change the kit, which means the VGU team fucked it up as their kit needs changes.

l MrD lJun 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Galio was trashed by the balance team, not the VGU team.

ngl though roaming ults have proved to be favoured for pro play ... on top of his added utility with the flash taunt and knockups with E ...basically a roaming champ with ult that has good damage and hard CC... i fail to see how he wouldnt be so easily abused in pro play from the start? ....

FireDrizzleJun 18, 201911 votes

Rito dont like him as a tank, they dont like him as a mage, if they wont let him be viable they should revert him. And I say this as someone who almost never played old Galio.

RagnaveilJun 18, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Rito dont like him as a tank, they dont like him as a mage, if they wont let him be viable they should revert him. And I say this as someone who almost never played old Galio.

Or simply rework him so he has some sentience of his old self in the kit. He's missing MR ratios and the ability to build half tank half AP.

SEKAIJun 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Or simply rework him so he has some sentience of his old self in the kit. He's missing MR ratios and the ability to build half tank half AP.

Old Galio only had direct MR conversion on W, which today Galio also has direct MR conversion on W on top of passive.

Sure, Galio also used to have MR to AP conversion, too. But since it was a 2-stage conversion going from MR to AP and then a % of the AP becomes the spell damage (ie an incredibly inefficient conversion), it really was rather insignificant and now easily made up and some more by the direct MR scaling on his current passive.

FireDrizzleJun 18, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Or simply rework him so he has some sentience of his old self in the kit. He's missing MR ratios and the ability to build half tank half AP.

Other than Malphite i'm not sure what is viable half tank half ap. Everything is either glass cannon, full tank or just tanky enough 1 guy wont 1 shot it.

Sire HippingtonJun 18, 20192 votes

the ability to build half tank half AP.

That's not a gallio issue, but a problem with the current gamestate. I can't think of one champ that is better of going ap-bruiser than either fulltank or full AP.

With how much damage there is, you need fulltank gear to soak anything at all, else you just need enough to make sure you get your one combo of befor dieing, cause you won't live for a second one anyway unless you clearly win the fight in which case it doesn't really matter. And item 3157 alone probably can buy you more time than a full tank built...

Also, new gallio has a MR ratio on his passive, which can be proced twice in one rotation, so up to 40% X 2 = 80%(bonus)mr ratio on an all-in aswell as increased damage reduction on W Old gallio got 50% MR as AP and a 1.1AP ratio on his base kit, so 55%mr ratio without ult, up to ~105% with ult, and some on the W healing

Don't get me wrong, i loved old gallio and would love getting him back, but his mr-conversion never was the reason i liked him and wasn't really a defineing factor on him.

MiracleMorg94Jun 18, 201910 votes

He just needs reverted, honestly. I think Riot needs to lay off the VGUs until they get some actual people who know what they are doing. Not trying to sling mud, just stating a fact.

BlakiepugJun 18, 20192 votes

I agree. It seems like people complain about all the reworked champions post-VGU more than they did with the champ originally. Plus almost every rework that Riot does feels like it was made by someone who doesn't get why the original champion was so beloved.

As someone who enjoys playing Volibear jungle, I am already saddened knowing that my jungle main will be completely altered both in the way he plays and his appearance within the next year. The concept art was pretty concerning personally too. Seems like the people at Riot envision Volibear as some huge hulking edgy bear with weapons jabbed into his back and all scarred up. I don't play Voli because he's edgy, I play him because he's a giant fluffy bear.

Anu3isIIJun 18, 20192 votes

The main reason VGUs are a thing is to make more people interested in those characters at the expense of losing some long time mains. This should have been clear long ago when they reworked Karma to this bland version that needs to be overturned in order to be competitive with other more unique characters.

Remember Lee Sin rework? Since he was a popular champ and his player base cried at Riot, they didn't continue it. Not many champs have that luxury.

Agent CorgiJun 18, 20199 votes

If you ask me, I thought Galio On-release was perfectly fine as a Solo Laner. He was an Anti-Mage AP Tank & he did exceptionally well with being just that.

It was Patch 7.21 where he was ruined. They nerfed his Tank builds & incentized him into playing AP Glass Cannon. After that, he was just nerfed constantly due to his AP Builds being way too strong & his strength in competitive (His Ultimate being an extremely good roaming/Follow-up tool, Similar to Shen's Ultimate).

Personally, I like him now in the supporting role (He's my pocket pick if I don't choose Janna). He's still got great engage & kill potential at Lv2. However I do miss seeing him be a viable pick for mid outside Competitive.

GelsominoKillerJun 18, 20197 votes

No, no and no. I disagree firmly.

Galio's problem was not his design, but the subsequent neverending degenerate balance direction of countless changes.

We're talking about a kit designed for a tank, forced (repeatedly! patch after patch) to be some kind of... Mage assassin?

To be honest this is the "Ornn issue" (but on steroids), aka Riot being somewhat unable to concieve the simple fact that A TANK MIGHT NOT NEED MORE DAMAGE TO WORK AS A TANK. Ornn released underpowered, so they buffed his brittle passive to questionable %hp amounts of damage. He ended up winning every trade in the toplane, so he was gutted and then lost his shield.

The problem with galio? They couldn't, and can't, decide once and for all a design direction with him. What is galio is supposed to do, what he's supposed to build? Is he a damage dealer? If yes, is he an AP bruiser, a poke mage, or is he intended to have a 100-0 lockdown burst combo? Or is he a tank? Then, how much is important his anti-AP identity? Where he's supposed to go? In the toplane or in the midlane? Because having him being super effective vs AP mages AND AD bruisers sounds kind of broken.

Now, I dream of a day where galio is the guy you pick to suppress an heavy-AP comp, or to deny lane kill pressure vs some pesky AP bummer, like LB in mid or kennen in the top. His Q his meant to help him competing in waveclear with mages, for he is a direct counter to them. I would remove his ap scalings altogether, and give him his old MR ratios.

RagnaveilJun 18, 20194 votes

{quoted}

No, no and no. I disagree firmly.

Galio's problem was not his design, but the subsequent neverending degenerate balance direction of countless changes.

We're talking about a kit designed for a tank, forced (repeatedly! patch after patch) to be some kind of... Mage assassin?

To be honest this is the "Ornn issue" (but on steroids), aka Riot being somewhat unable to concieve the simple fact that A TANK MIGHT NOT NEED MORE DAMAGE TO WORK AS A TANK. Ornn released underpowered, so they buffed his brittle passive to questionable %hp amounts of damage. He ended up winning every trade in the toplane, so he was gutted and then lost his shield.

The problem with galio? They couldn't, and can't, decide once and for all a design direction with him. What is galio is supposed to do, what he's supposed to build? Is he a damage dealer? If yes, is he an AP bruiser, a poke mage, or is he intended to have a 100-0 lockdown burst combo? Or is he a tank? Then, how much is important his anti-AP identity? Where he's supposed to go? In the toplane or in the midlane? Because having him being super effective vs AP mages AND AD bruisers sounds kind of broken.

Now, I dream of a day where galio is the guy you pick to suppress an heavy-AP comp, or to deny lane kill pressure vs some pesky AP bummer, like LB in mid or kennen in the top. His Q his meant to help him competing in waveclear with mages, for he is a direct counter to them. I would remove his ap scalings altogether, and give him his old MR ratios.

He should be anti-AP. He'd be the counterpart to Malph, who is anti-AD. We have no anti-AP champs right now. (Dont go screaming Kassadin down my throat, he's not a tank and is in the wrong direction in the aspect the direction my comment is doing)

Jeddy017Jun 18, 20192 votes

That's because they keep trying to support old Galio's mage playstyle (where players built him like a mage & played like a mage) on top of his now tank centric kit.

Riot should just bite the bullet & pick a main direction for his kit. Sure, there can be off builds. But unless those thing are out of line, they shouldn't be balanced around.

boricCentaur1Jun 18, 20195 votes

The problem with galio is the balance team and old galio mains since they want him to be a ap champion only but his kit and items don't allow for that.

MarcReadyJun 18, 20195 votes

Gut his AP ratios and give him some health or resistances based ratio, make his W channel cancellable by hard CCs. Bring back damage reduction buffs on ult and we'll may have a decent laner back.

gileskdJun 18, 20195 votes

Snitch Please! galio was x10 better than this white washed new guy deleting champions is not the answer riot

GaliöJun 18, 20194 votes

The New Galio has plenty of uptime because he can dash around and taunt frequently. Has good waveclear cause of his Q and Passive making it easier to clear with minimal mana costs.

The Old Galio had less uptime, more mana problems, and a unique W while being gated from maximum impact when he had his ult giving enemies time to play around the unkillable tank or gave Galio time to stall until he had ult.

But come with the issue of being a CC bot...

although Current Galio doesnt have the largest CC numbers in the game he had the base damage to back it up when he was a support... When he was string mid his Q was overturned and clearing waves was too easy

Old Galio was pretty much just an unkillable wall that was less useful (to his team) without his Ult. He had huge tank steroids but didnt really help when he didnt have the mana to spam Q all day, or even E himself around the map.

Both have issues and I preferred the older Galio although he had shorter windows of power... but I liked strategizing around those windows rather than smash Q every 7 seconds and keep trying to E until you have a good W catch...or wait until flash is up w.e.

Shameless ad for one of my latest post of changelist I think would work:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/RsiEYeGE-galio-again

Cloud273Jun 18, 20194 votes

They should make his ult more like Pantheon's. Instead of only being able to ult onto an ally, make it so he can ult anywhere he wants (as long as it's in range) and balance him around that. Also, he doesn't need a self slow. If you get caught by champs like Galio and Rammus it means you didn't position properly in fights. They don't need self slows just because people are stupid and get caught by them.

Frontline FuryJun 18, 20193 votes

his VU was really, really great actually. It's the GU that unfortunately became overbearing in the modern league of legends.

The game was completely different back when his rework went live.

Teriyaki BukkakeJun 18, 20193 votes

Honestly they should revert, and just upgrade his visuals. His old kit was incredibly fun, and he was actually a strong anti mage.

OHminusJun 18, 20192 votes

I think the VGU is good, its just pro play ruins it. I don't care if Galio is pick/ban in pro play, I love his design, his new quotes, etc. Old Galio was literally just a gargoyle. New Galio is a chad

Shendelzare1Jun 18, 20192 votes

Revert old ulty.

FlemmanJun 19, 20191 votes

still want to be able to selfult to trade better in sololane

KarfussJun 19, 20191 votes

I liked old Galio's design as the Anti-AP nuker that got dunked on by AD casters/assassins (because MR also gave him AP albeit at a terrible ratio, enough to make him deal significant damage while making him sufficiently bulky against poke damage but not much beyond that). He could initiate fights like nobody else save for Rakan mind.

Now he just feels like any generic squishy AP bruiser that is relegated only to organised play courtesy of his ultimate.