Are we supposed to believe "Stormrazor" is an adc item

SwiftKitten88·May 2, 2018·116 votes·36,437 views

100% crit on first auto... now what class can abuse that....lets think

going to be really excited to see + stormrazor

on champs like

even champs like ....

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

173 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerMay 2, 201848 votes

Yeah, realistically, the only ADCs that will get the most use out of the item would be Quinn and Graves. Maybe a jungle Twitch.

Boxbox put out a video this morning of him playing Stormrazer Riven. It's pretty disgusting

MarothennanMay 2, 201812 votes

Draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaven

The Yetii RiderMay 2, 20189 votes

Riot keeps saying it's ridiculous on Jhin.

RyusaetherMay 2, 201821 votes

Draven Jhin

The first one to frontload burst and chase you, the second one because his 4th shot does more dmg based on missing health and gets MS for each crit, MS based on his AS and both stats are buffed by crits.

NielarkenMay 3, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qw8ENzEo,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-02T15:40:27.494+0000)

Yeah, realistically, the only ADCs that will get the most use out of the item would be Quinn and Graves. Maybe a jungle Twitch.

Boxbox put out a video this morning of him playing Stormrazer Riven. It's pretty disgusting

Sivir too all 3 of her ricoches will crit which also mean all of the bounces after with also crit. That ontop of the attack speed and move speed.

Sire HippingtonMay 3, 20182 votes

Any high ranged champ and RFC/SS user will make great use of it. I can totally see Caitlyns rush it and becomming a terror, haveing a 650range crit every 2.5 sec with solid ad to back it up is absurd harras early on. Add in either RFC to get that 800range save crit every few sec that also hits towers(hope that's a bug and gets fixed) is huge, same for SS getting the crit for sure for heavy burst in 1 AA.

RiotRiot AxesMay 2, 201835 votes

Intent is niche on some ADCs and some assassins. It's tunable towards ADCs via pushing the gold value into the second passive or amplifying repeatability of first passive, tunable towards Assassins via pushing gold into AD or simply making it cheaper.

We're expecting at least one outlier user from both classes initially (Jhin, Rengar, and I guess Quinn is both right now?), but believe that they can be balanced. We do have a nuclear option if they can't, though - locking out Duskblade procs from working on crits (or otherwise preventing you from using both at once).

WiegrafOfValorMay 2, 201887 votes

Why give frontload damage to Marksmen, if the whole problem is that they are doing frontload damage to begin with?

Isn't their job to do constant DPS?

Have you guys consider making Critical Strike actually work just like item 3122 Passive? I think it would fit way better the ADC play-style if the damage were applied over time instead of instantly.

Sp33d Zer0May 2, 201811 votes

Because there are ADCs who rely on front loading damage at the expense of follow up damage.

The problem with adc's right now isn't front loaded damage, its the combination of being able to get that front loaded damage without sacrificing follow up damage.

WiegrafOfValorMay 2, 20184 votes

Tell me how exactly this new item will make them "sacrifice follow up damage", again?

ZerenzaMay 2, 20186 votes

As someone said above, basically the champions Abusing this item or who are most likely too are as follows.

Rengar: An assassin, who needs Front-Loaded Damage, though probably shouldn't have Duskblade+StormRazor. Jhin: An ADC who can't build attack speed and rely's heavily on his Forth Shot chunking people down. Quinn: She's pretty much an Assassin, let's be real here.

Now if Tristana, Ashe, Sivir or Caitlynn end up abusing this item and still bursting people, that's when riot's going to step in and say "Nope, can't have that." so they have a Contingency plan but i imagine they'll have to make Duskblade and Stormrazor unstackable.

WiegrafOfValorMay 2, 20186 votes

Still doesn't answer why even add an item like that, and if this item was made for assassins, just make it Melee Only

Akali Ekko Evelynn Fiora Fizz Irelia Jax Kassadin Katarina Kayn Khazix LeeSin MasterYi Nocturne Pantheon Rengar Shaco Talon Yasuo Zed

They are all Melee champions, and those Marksmen/Assassin hybrids can do their job very well without using Assassin items.

Sp33d Zer0May 2, 201817 votes

Because it wasn't "made for assassins."

Intent is niche on some ADCs and some assassins.

AMYS GRAVEMay 3, 20184 votes

If i may make a follow up point, i think they're missing the mark on "niche" or on "some" or both unless they redefine the meaning of ADCs as a role.

TerozuMay 3, 20182 votes

Worth remembering that adc refers to a physical damage focused ad champ.

Jhin, Ashe, Vayne are all marksmen. A typically adc focused class.

Sexy Jack RabbitMay 3, 20184 votes

What do you mean 'typically'. IT IS AN ADC Focused class.

There is not ONE Marksman in the game that is not Attack damage focused.

The closest we have is Kaisa and Corki who are TECHNICALLY hybrid, but is more often then not built pure AD. Corki's is only technically because regardless of whether he builds AP or not AD is still superior due to his passive.

TerozuMay 3, 20184 votes

Teemo

Also, KogMaw Corki Azir are also all at least partially ap focused.

BoulderoxMay 3, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Jack Rabbit,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qw8ENzEo,comment-id=001c000100000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-03T06:48:32.162+0000)

There is not ONE Marksman in the game that is not Attack damage focused.

KogMaw all ap scalings, but has 1 ad, 65% scaling on ult... soo Teemo still classifies as a marksman right???

Sp33d Zer0May 2, 20185 votes

Because you are paying for a passive that only gives you 1 crit, with a follow up behind it. However that follow up also has no crit. This leaves you with some increased stats, but less follow up because of the loss of crits.

Unless you buy it with full crit so you can make use of the secondary passive, completely wasting the entirety of the first passive and leaving multiple other items better such as guinsoo if you wanted to get extra stats.

WiegrafOfValorMay 2, 20184 votes

The item still gives AD and AS, what else a Marksmen want from an item? I would hardly call that "sacrifice follow up damage".

They aren't sacrificing sht, they will be only gaining a free Critical Strike.

Sp33d Zer0May 2, 20186 votes

Do you actually believe that losing out on more consistent critical strike from another item like a zeal upgrade or IE makes up for the AD and AS you get?

MuffledGarbageMay 3, 20182 votes

well marksmen are going to be overcapping on crit anyways most of the time so... they won't really be losing anything after [STORMRAZOR] item 3087 + ( item 3094 OR reworked- item 3031 )

Sp33d Zer0May 3, 20181 votes

Ok, and if you are buying stormrazer AFTER you are over capped, you are wasting one of the two passives, and are better off getting a guinsoo instead because it gives MORE STATS

Unless you buy it with full crit so you can make use of the secondary passive, completely wasting the entirety of the first passive and leaving multiple other items better such as guinsoo if you wanted to get extra stats.

MuffledGarbageMay 3, 20182 votes

On PBE, stormrazor's sell price is making it similar to the Dark-Seal Singed stacking strategy where it's usefulness earlygame can transition if the person using it has gotten a significant advantage by the time they sell it off

So unless that sell price gets nerfed by a good 300-350 gold, the item is going to be a rush-item similar to ardent censor where the team that builds it first will pretty much just win earlygame and then transition that win into a gold lead that will make-up for the sell price(if the item stays in it's current sell-price on PBE)

kile147May 2, 201813 votes

To be fair, the ones who are planning on using it aren't really designed for DPS. Quinn is totally an assassin ADC hybrid, and Jhin can't really do DPS like other marksmen. From the sound of it if Caitlyn starts using this with item 3147 item 3087 to burst from 1300 range with a headshot (480+(350% AD) Damage at lvl 18) then they will probably nerf some combination of those items.

WiegrafOfValorMay 2, 201830 votes

Still doesn't make sense to add a item like that.

Effects I think they should give to items aimed to ADCs:

Damage ramp up per AA on the same target, in rapid succession.(Ranged Only - So Yi, Shiv, or Jax doen't abuse it)
An active that marks a target and for the next x seconds it converts part of your AA damage to true dmg.(Ranged Only - So Yi, Shiv, or Jax doen't abuse it)
An active that gives you more range on your AA but reduce your AS for x seconds. (Ranged Only - So Yi, Shiv, or Jax doen't abuse it)

___________________________________--

Effects Riot gives to items aimed to ADCs:

Tons of damage.
Tons of damage on the first AA.
Tons of damage in AoE.

AnomandaristMay 3, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Damage ramp up per AA on the same target, in rapid succession.(Ranged Only - So Yi, Shiv, or Jax doen't abuse it)

So, red smite?

Warlord RhinarkMay 3, 20183 votes

An active that marks a target and for the next x seconds it coverts part of your AA damage to true dmg.(Ranged Only - So yi, Shiv, or Jax doesn't abuse it)

Marksmen are already getting true damage with the new Infinity Edge.

FuzzyLumpsMay 3, 20185 votes

This guy has the right idea

tophitMay 3, 20182 votes

If I remember correctly they got rid of crits on Caitlyn headshots in the last patch

SteelflameMay 3, 20183 votes

No, her Headshot on champions is the same, they just adjusted how much damage she does to minions with it to keep her overhealing off of a single auto.

AMYS GRAVEMay 2, 201824 votes

After having played with it on the PBE i can say, you're missing the mark on these changes specifically by frontloading damage. That's the exact problem people have with adcs now, that's the problem you set out to solve, and when that frontloaded damage is guaranteed then you're only exacerbating the problem. The up front burst may be the same as it was before, but it only sometimes applied, and by guaranteeing it you've boosted their effectivness by guaranteeing reliability. You need adcs to be weak to sudden all ins but they can still obliterate any squishy assassin who dares get near them with this. You're changing adc builds without exposing the weakness of the class that has been covered up for a long time. If ADCs get to keep their up front burst then the entire point of why these changes were necessary in the first place has been missed. ADCs have been too reliable, and this item makes them more reliable.

WiegrafOfValorMay 2, 20188 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif

SweedishGunnerMay 2, 201827 votes

Can't nerf marksmen if they're all assassins.

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Roll-Safe-Think-About-It.jpg

remakoroMay 2, 201822 votes

They were mad just cuz this cheap shit item 3147 was harder to abuse if you had no build in stealth. Making it availiable literally for everyone gonna totally fix everything.

MarothennanMay 2, 20185 votes

As if you need stealth to abuse Duskblade rofl

Handin Out NapsMay 2, 20181 votes

To abuse it you do. To just use it once not really.

It Hertz When IPMay 2, 20185 votes

You just have to duck into a ward-less bush.

Best Ekko NAMay 2, 201818 votes

Thresh

Critmaster GarenMay 2, 201815 votes

maybe if the item adds so much frontloaded burst, that you have to fear what it does against marksmen as squishies, then it sounds like riot made an assassin item to me.

begs the question, why marksmen are getting such an item in the first place. wasnt half of the reason of this marksmen rework to make them deal less frontloaded burst?

so why are they getting an item that guarantees a rapid fire crit?

SwiftKitten88May 2, 201814 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qw8ENzEo,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-05-02T18:30:00.098+0000)

begs the question, why marksmen are getting such an item in the first place. wasnt half of the reason of this marksmen rework to make them deal less frontloaded burst?

that wasn't just half the point.. that was pretty much the ENTIRE point

Critmaster GarenMay 2, 20186 votes

{quoted}

that wasn't just half the point.. that was pretty much the ENTIRE point

nah, the other half was to make non marksmen viable in the carry role in duo lanes.

MuffledGarbageMay 2, 20188 votes

sadly, the point went over Riot's heads because the change in crit aint gonna do that

RagnaveilMay 2, 201814 votes

Yeah....I do hope they look to either remove or change it....a tad bit questionable after we JUST solved the Duskblade Saga of bullshit.

Daddy AntsMay 2, 201813 votes

Make it ranged only like Runaan's.

There we go, It's an ADC item.

QuannariMay 2, 20186 votes

Quinn item 3147 stormrazor.

Thanks Rito! XD

PopcornBunniMay 2, 20189 votes

Stormrazor item 3087

And this change is supposed to lower ADC burst lol

ManslayerMay 2, 20188 votes

Yup, it is pretty much a busted item. Don't let anyone else fool you. 3400 gold for 100% crit, 25% as and 65 ad is a motherfucking steal. In fact, the item gets worse and worse as you get more crit chance. It excells on anything that can remove themselves from combat, or can poke. So I expect Jhin, and Caitlyn to be absolutely busted and bot lane to actually be first to Razor wins. Assassins will make it overpowered as well, and pretty much anyone who auto attacks to either burst kill or poke.