Janna, Tahm kench, Braum, win rate, and shielding Discussion

I'm writing this long thread to adress an issue that is really annoying me, not only because it has been brought up by the boards often but also because what riot did in response to that is totally the opposite of what high elo players told them to do and what they should have done in general

This discussion is obiously "oh look janna win rate! 54! again nerf" when in reality Janna is not even close to being good right now: -never picked in pro -way less picked in high elo, went to check FNC hylissang who's i think the highest ranked support on EUW http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=fnchylissang he has ALMOST NO GAME of janna, i remember him picking her in the LCS against jizuke and he got oneshot in 0.1 sec against Ryze

So now, i can see everyone comming at me with the same argument: "no one cares about high elo or pro" but here is the thing, you SHOULD care because they are representing how the game should be played in general, how the game would be played if the players behind the screen had a brain with nerves. (it's a hyperbole i know).

But forgetting hyperboles, Let me explain to you why Janna has 53% win rate Janna has a very low skillfloor, when someone picks janna for the first time he immediatly grasps what the champion is able to do in general without learning any mechanic like gangplank's barrels. They can get better at Janna, knowing the match ups (needed since the 18 sec cd E change) and advanced strat with Q but that's it. This means someone being autofilled in the support role can 1st time janna and do fine WITHOUT DOING SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY no i insist on this because people will tell me "an autofilled player doing better than a support main is not fine" you're not doing better, you're just not being useless This is the same thing for every other easy champions warwick had 53% win rate since his rework because it's the same thing, you get autofilled jungle play a champ without mechanic and you just happen to be there not being useless, same with nunu (when he isn't garbage) ahri (who has 52% win rate right now despite being garbage) sona or any other low skillcap champion is this bad? no, because if you get autofilled you should be able to play easy champions that give you a decent probability of winning, this is something that exists in every game Dota 2 has wraith king a carry with only one spell, or supports like Rylai who can be usefull just by skilling E, but that does not mean they're going to carry a game against a good Meepo that micro his units, or a good Earth Spirit that will legit solocarry a game

You should realise that if janna has 53% win rate, it's simply because bad jannas won't exist, but this doesn't mean they will do better than you there is no way a bad janna (or even a good janna) wins against a tahm kench that knows his champion to perfection look at Supportive Lion's win rate on Tahm kench , or FNC Hylissang who has a fcking 71% win rate on tahm kench in 700 lp challenger Hell, top1 korea is a kench otp that does the same, you WON'T FIND anywhere someone with that win rate on janna

a low skillcap support is doomed to be low skillcap, it's good for players who get autofilled, but for specialist it's not good you won't be able to perfection janna to get 71% win rate on a hundred of games this is the balance Do you know when janna was picked in pro? Only when she was broken During Ardent meta for instance, the amount of power you got from a simple shield was too much and janna's win rate rose to 58% win rate this power was enough for pro players to pick her without being afraid of having an other support doing more if played better

and on the opposite we have Ornn who was legit gamebreaking while having 48% win rate, and got nerfed several time to now being hardly a champion Ornn WAS broken, there was no sane person on earth that didn't realise that , imaqtpie scarra Dyrus called that out immediatly when they realised that he couldn't lose lane against anyone.

But why did he have 48% win rate? because he's clunky af most ornn you would meet fucked up, or didn't know the champ well and made him looked balanced that DID NOT MEAN he was balanced, if you played against a good ornn good luck for winning it's the same thing right now with

if there is one thing please just one thing you should remember from this post NEVER TRUST WIN RATE BUT PAY ATTENTION TO THE CHANGE OF WIN RATE if has 53% win rate it doesn't mean he's broken if win rate goes from 53% to 56% win rate (like in last patch), then you can start to ask questions if i see suddenly being picked by every high elo toplaners to climb, suddenly having his win rate rising from 51-52% to 56% then i can legit think about if he's broken

https://youtu.be/oEWVZao8lJ4?t=2718

and to prove you that i'm just linking you the conversation between imaqtpie and meddler in that conversation they talked about supports, and qt immediatly talked about braum and tahm kench legit there is NOTHING you can do against those two

let's compare janna to kench and braum, to those who immediatly look at win rate and be like "alright janna's broken" , compare them and ask yourself why the fuck aren't the pros taking janna over them?

Janna: -decent protection with shield and ult heal -good disengage -is a virtual wall against melees because they won't ever touch someone unless they're made to counter her (in high elo, toplaner picks malphite if he sees janna because he knows that one malphite ult on janna----->janna dead---->no one to stops him anymore from playing) -Very good at taking objectives because shield gives AD, but AD isn't good in teamfight because if your shield is broken the ad disappears

AND THAT'S IT

tahm kench: -invalidates melees as hard as janna, good luck doing something against 70% slow, glacial augment, and then his W once he stacked 3 stacks -32% max hp damage on a bruiser which is 1/3 of a bruiser hp bar -lvl 6=free double kill bot if the jungler come and tahm kench ults him -virtual wall against everything with his W his W is a walking hourglass that lasts twice or more than hourglass this is absurd let me assure you that janna won't do anything against mages, there are no mages that get countered by janna yet i'm having troubles to find a mage that isn't countered by tahm kench it's so stupid malz ult? kench'ed veigar ult? kench'ed camille ult? kench'ed this fucker is able to nullify everything, the only thing he can't is zed's ult if you applied the mark before he eats you -HE IS SO HARD TO KILL WTF literally doubles his HP bar think about it, picking kench is literally picking a tanky janna you can't die, malphite can't oneshot you, ryze can't oneshot you

and braum is essentially the same, nullify everything that isn't instant with his E, tanky as fuck

both have 100% pick/ban in pro but riot confirmed that they're nerfing healing/shielding

what the fuck? i don't get it, you have high elo players telling you that those champions are obnoxious you have alistar being versatile as fuck, giving his adc good all in, sustain, disengage, protection you have kench and braum being a better janna

and now you want to nerf healing/shielding when has legit no counterplay at all for everyone in the game

https://youtu.be/oEWVZao8lJ4?t=5452

i'm linking this video once again because later in the discussion qtpie asked if there were any plans for tahm kench and stashu answered that "the spell can be balanced" but earlier he said "totally agree"

so you know tahm kench ruins games but you're not fixing him?

anyway that's all i had to say