Are adc's really mandatory? Or are MOBILE ADC's what is…

Woook3r · 2016-04-01T18:31:54.457Z

I mean, we have some examples of adc's right now that have mobility, sustained dmg, waveclear, burst, AND MOBILITY. Corkie has all of that + POKE! Dear god. Open your eyes ppl. ADC isnt the problem. Adc's that dont rely on positioning due to their insane burst and mobility ARE. If any of the actual meta adc's misposition, all they have to do is pop a mobility spell, or nuke someone on the other team and problem solved. Theres no time to punish them. I really think its stupid that Ranged AD Dps is getting so much hate when its the fucking mobility and burst that all of these meta ADC's combine into one kit that makes them meta. If immobile adc's were on top, no one would have a problem because there are so many ways to gib them. But if you are going to buff the mobility of champions like corkie and lucian and kindred and graves and quin, and then if you open new roles to them like the jungle, then this is what you get. Ranged AD burst that you cant catch up to in every role everywhere.. Why the fuck havnt we nerfed jungle graves yet? Why the fuck does he stun monsters with his auto attacks? Why the fuck isnt kindred a champion you can invade? Why is Corkie, a poke champion with mobility, so good at dueling and 1v1's? Why the fuck does Essence Reaver give 30% cdr?

Lazypeon100Apr 1, 20161 votes

I rgue they do care actually, but the meta and player perception dictates who goes bottom versus who does not. They tried to turn morde into a bot lane carry, Yasuo was originally intended to go bot lane, arguably Azir, etc. Not to mention ADCs are going elsewhere as well now.

Why do you think they don't care about diversity?

MatezoideApr 1, 20162 votes

Jhin and Kog'Maw are amongst the best champions in the game right now. Jinx was the best ADC in solo que for months. So no, Ranged ADCs are mandatory regardless of mobility.

{quoted}

I rgue they do care actually, but the meta and player perception dictates who goes bottom versus who does not. They tried to turn morde into a bot lane carry, Yasuo was originally intended to go bot lane, arguably Azir, etc. Not to mention ADCs are going elsewhere as well now.

Why do you think they don't care about diversity?

They did not try to turn Mordekaiser into a bot lane carry. They tried to turn him into a Figther that goes bot, but the actual ADC is somewhere else.

Yasuo and Azir were always meant to go mid.

Lazypeon100Apr 1, 20161 votes

They did though? I think we're arguing the same thing for morde. I didn't argue that he was turned into an adc or anything like that, though he was intended to go bot lane. Maybe it's poor word choice that I said carry, even though I think they wanted him to be able to compete with the rest of the carries in the game when they forced him bot.

Azir was meant to go mid, I added him because he could arguably be taken down bot lane and work just fine if you want an adc elsewhere.

I'll have to look for it, but I could have sworn there were comments by CertainlyT that he hoped Yasuo would have been able to go bot lane. Could be wrong.

I'm still arguing they care about the diversity down there seeing as they are actively trying to move adcs to other lanes and put other champions down bot (which is why I mentioned morde in the first place).

Woook3rApr 1, 20162 votes

Kog was and is just busted because he has a cheesy w mechanic and rageblade for his on hit builds. Dont act like kog maw provides any insight into the actual world of adcs. Hes cancer.

Woook3rApr 1, 20162 votes

I would argue they do care, but the priorities are obviously skewed. They have this idea that they want to keep champion identity from a historical perspective and I think it prevents them from giving the right reworks.

So when they reworked the adc class, they failed to address the real problems with some of the champions, which is this. Mobility is capable of breaking this class. If you give these champions much else, then they can become like corkie or graves and dominate the other classes of champions. This is ok, but only when adc is tied to bot lane, and only if Immobile adc's can kick ass in lane. When immobile champions dominate bot lane during the laning phase, they come out of lane with the ability to dominate everything else because of their mobility and burst and whatever else is in the kit. Immobile adc's are much less effective outside of lane because they can get their ass handed to them. That balances them. The only thing that would balance a mobile adc would be the struggle they face in lane against other adc's that are more balanced outside of lane.

So yea, they care about diversity, but they care more about historical identity of the champions and much less about the actual ecosystem of bot lane which is an unaddressed problem.

Lazypeon100Apr 1, 20161 votes

I don't think mobility is the issue though. Plenty of immobile champions have done extremely well for the class in the past. Mobility allows for adcs to escape / peel for themselves, but it doesn't outright break the class. It is a strength, but it doesn't make them broken by defauly or necessarily hurt the health of bot lane.

Woook3rApr 1, 20161 votes

Mobility is capable of breaking the class. didnt say it did break it outright. its just that having mobility in your kit allows for the potential to be broken.

Lazypeon100Apr 1, 20161 votes

I mean, if taken to the extremes sure, but that applies to everything if taken to an extreme. Damage, CC, healing, etc. It's a moot point.

Hayaishi2Apr 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I rgue they do care actually, but the meta and player perception dictates who goes bottom versus who does not. They tried to turn morde into a bot lane carry, Yasuo was originally intended to go bot lane, arguably Azir, etc. Not to mention ADCs are going elsewhere as well now.

Why do you think they don't care about diversity?

Because if they did bot lane would actually be diverse.

Look at when they reworked Sivir, guess who was in the meta after that? Sivir.

Tristana? same thing

Twitch? Same thing

Kogmaw? same thing

Corki? same thing

Quinn? Same thing

All of them got into the meta the moment Riot buffed them, the fact that we still have marksmen that never see play baffles me. When Riot wants a champion to be played they will make it happen.

Woook3rApr 1, 20162 votes

"When Riot wants a champion to be played they will make it happen."-This.

Case in point: Kog'Maw.

Lazypeon100Apr 1, 20161 votes

This is kind of silly imo. The twitch update two years ago only saw an updated model and very minor quality of life adjustments (such as the puff of smoke on his stealth to indicate you are actually stealthed.)

He became popular and ban worthy, not because he was any stroner than he was before, but because player perception around him changed as he actually saw some decent play.

Ashe saw a minor rework, then was quickly nerfed because she was too strong and crowded out other adcs.

Just like quinn.

Just like Corki.

Just like Kogmaw, who was terrible at the start of his rework mind you. Or did he not have the lowest win rate of any champion after his rework at first for a couple patches?

People play champions after they are buffed to see if the changes were enough to make a huge difference, and if it is, they become meta as people frequently will continue playing them.

Which adcs are you talking about exactly? Varus goes well mid lane and can still be played bot. Twitch is arguably the strongest adc if you make it past his terrible lane phase.

Bot lane isn't diverse because riot doesn't try to make it diverse. They could make a better attempt, sure. But that doesn't mean they don't care or don't try. People keep sending adcs bot lane when there are other viable lanes to have adcs at. You're arguing that there isn't diversity amognst adcs, which frankly, I disagree with. I'm arguing there isn't enough class diversity bot lane, and that has nothing to do with Riot. That has to do with the player base.

Woook3rApr 1, 20161 votes

dude. twitch started seeing play after they buffed his ultimate by 30 ad.

Lazypeon100Apr 1, 20161 votes

And he saw play immediately after his visual update. Are you surprised that champions get played after buffs O.o?

Woook3rApr 1, 20162 votes

All of their abilities are fine. If they are auto attack based like most immobile adc's are, then they need better than 550 range, because thats the range of a caster minion which is pitiful. Most abilities in the game are 900+ range. Id say 600 is the bare minimum for a champion that depends on autos and thats still super low. They need help with kiting as well because its so difficult to kite without a team to threaten with their abilities. But when I say help, I dont mean much. Draven's axe catching isnt fluid enough to kite. You have to pause on the glyphs to catch axes and it can be really awkward. I think attack frame buffs might do the trick if you have the range buffs.

650 range on all immobile adc's would be better, but theyre not going to do that because of Caitlyn, which is stupid. Shes fucking mobile as well and can crit for 2k dmg with a shit ton of free armor pen. For whatever reason, they just want her to be annoying as fuck in lane with no recourse. They wont let Draven and Varus and Ashe have her range numbers even tho it is not something that Caitlyn really needs to have over them. Shes got traps and mobility and headshot. Simply cannot understand why they feel is is ok to combine mobility and range. But combining mobility, range, poke and burst in corkie is even worse, so I cant say Im surprised.

67chromeApr 1, 20162 votes

but when has Riot ever cared whether or not bot lane is diverse?

Mordekaiser <_<

IcyPepperApr 1, 20162 votes

It was a decent try, but failed attempt.

67chromeApr 1, 20162 votes

It was also a time Riot clearly cared about the diversity of bot-lane.

IcyPepperApr 1, 20161 votes

For marksman? Yes. With other classes? It seemed more like an experiment than anything else.

Trying to get bot lane more diverse, since obviously marksman don't always have problems laning elsewhere, would require likely a new champion, new items, anti-range and pro-melee items that won't break the balance of the game, and possibly new game mechanics. Hell if I know.

It's going to take a lot of work if they ever want to achieve that.

Are adc's really mandatory? Or are MOBILE ADC's what is truly mandatory??

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