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My first four games on live with new Sona

Hellioning··19 votes·4,790 views

These were all teambuilder with just me by myself as Sona Support Bot Lane.

  1. This game doesn't really count. It was against presumably a five stack who all went support champs mid and surrendered.

  2. This game was exactly as I feared. First thing that happened was that Leona hit E as soon as I went up to poke her, resulting in me losing 3/4 of my health from that and the ensuing Jinx autos. I basically never recovered from that, as it made me and Kog too low to fight back, though I did chase Leona way too far and got baited into the enemy Udyr at one point. Yeah, Trynd ragequit and Ori AFKed at fountain, but we were losing anyway.

  3. I got FB in this game because Ashe guaranteed crit plus auto Q power chord hurts a bit at level 1. Didn't do badly in laning phase, but Ashe farmed terribly and rushed a BT, resulting in Draven completely owning us as soon as he and Morg hit six. Couldn't do much to help Ashe if she got caught, my shield wasn't strong enough to guard against Draven, and if I got caught, well, GG. Yasuo got fed, too, and I had trouble dodging when I had to stay close to my ADC to be the most useful.

  4. I'm tempted to discount this game because it got ridiculously laggy near the end (like, their Noct simply couldn't move, that laggy) but we were ahead before that so I'll count it. Laning phase was decent, though I gave up trying to poke them and just stuck to keeping Jinx alive. Ali's flash+pulverize+headbutt was more than I could deal with, and until I got Mikhael's so was Ashe ult.

The things common to all four games: Sona's too squishy. Like, I know I'm not blowing anyone's minds here, but Sona's far too squishy to be a poke mage and she doesn't heal enough to be a sustain mage. Teamfights were a mess; I stuck with my ADC and hoped that no AoE came our way. My Q-power chord didn't feel like it did anything anymore; I tried poking the enemy Leona and Alistar, but it just didn't seem like I did anything. I still kept running out of mana.

In conclusion, I don't know why this came off of the PBE. It doesn't seem done, and this is just as frustrating on live as it was on the PBE.

37 Comments

Kynami8 votes

And pretty much meshes with what a lot of us were saying when we were reading what the adjustments were on the PBE.

They reduced her mobility, her early durability, and her resistances. And then for good measure hammered her damage combo potential if she dares to do it without at least one ally involved. I'm presuming that last one was to make it basically suicidal to attempt playing her someplace like mid-lane so that she has to be a good little support and be forced to stay firmly in bottom lane. And not trouble the Devs with being potentially better as a mid than support, you know where she could actually get enough AP to use her scaling to good effect.

Which is why Fearless if you read this... you have nice large swathes of the Sona population upset with you.

Luner Hunter3 votes

he's already said he will ignore whatever "feedback" he wants and will do what he wants since hes one of the devs >.>

ModUlanopo3 votes

That's a little unfair. It's obvious that he was surprised and hurt by some of the feedback he received. Much of it was personal. He even makes reference to having been called a monkey.

He didn't close off communication because he was being arrogant or elitist. He decided to ignore us because his feelings were hurt. I think the difference is really important.

Luner Hunter3 votes

no he didnt cut of communication he came close to literally saying since its riots game they can pick and chose what they put in and don't put in they can ignore feedback and if anyone doesnt like it too bad... and this anger is his fault... not one sona player wanted this rework,,, they posted "hey gimme feedback" we said "rito pls no" and like an abusive boyfriend/girlfriend they kicked in the door beat us down with their bullshit "our game our decision" and pushed reworked sona onto live

so ofc ppl got pissed off

"what do you think?" rito says

"i dont like it" says player

"tough shit you're gonna play it and you're gonna like it" rito says while breaking old sona into a million peices

Lord Graves III4 votes

I know sona players who like the changes. So at least 2 sona players wanted this change.

It also makes people like me who had no interest in, and hated Sona actually interested in playing her.

Luner Hunter4 votes

"sona players" and "sona mains" are 100% different i seriously doubt they were sona mains and if you think new "sona" is more "intersting" its because you didn't see the depth of the original sona... which is your fault not a design flaw that needed to be fixed by fucking her over and replacing her with a champ that looks like but isnt sona

Lord Graves III5 votes

Can I offer an alternate paradigm?

if you think new "sona" is more "intersting" its because you didn't see the depth of the original sona... which is your fault not a design flaw

I would argue that it is a design flaw when most people plainly cannot appreciate a champions kit. Not the marksman they are supporting or the support playing them. That you appreciated the old kit is nice, but I suspect this rework will end up just like Kat rework, everyone complains for a week or two then everyone feels better off in the end.

If Sona is fun for more players now then isn't that overall a good thing? I miss old Janna with her 1:1 scaling tornados but I admit them being gone is for the best.

Mialee1 votes

I do not understand what was wrong before either tbh

btw Wraith King in dota has one active ability one passive crit chance, one lifesteal aura and passive revive ulty and yet people play him a lot and he is pretty damn fun. How do they make that happen?

Why nobody under appreciate his "not so flashy kit" there and here Sona's auras were so "under appreciated"

Lord Graves III1 votes

Wraith King is fun because all of those passives are balanced to be so gratuitously powerful they are noticeable. Dota's design philosophy allows for passive auras so strong they are readily noticed. The general design of League doesn't allow for auras like this.

Also, I tried new Sona. She is fun as balls. The issue with what she did before is that it just wasn't noticeable (for most). Not noticeable for most people playing as sona (not sona mains, just everyone who tried her), and certainly not for the people she laned with. When I laned alongside sona I watched for her poke and saw the (weak) heal. The actual auras might as well have not been there.

Working alongside Sona, every time her auras activate I have an instantly noticeable difference be it the on hit of Q or the shield of W or the stronger boost of E.

Also, I tried her for freeweek. I found it so fun I'm strongly considering spending my Gnar IP on her. Every time I pushed a button I felt great. It was easier than playing as Janna or even Leona while at the same time very satisfying.

Even if Sona is objectively weaker than before her rework, she feels stronger and more satisfying to play as and play alongside and against. If shes weak she can be buffed, but Sona got nerfed a million times till her auras gave single digit stat bonuses and she STILL was good. If shes weak now she can be buffed, but she feels better for for many. I am among them. If shes IS weaker then its only getting better from here.

ShadowGlaive2134 votes

"I signed up for Sona knowing I was going to be changing a champ that tons of our players love, that I love, and that my very good friends love. I knew I'd have to do a bunch of these posts to defend the work, and try to convince people that we make these changes because we are working on our favorite game" --Fearless

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay/TUGkgEhf-sonas-rework-discussion-thread?comment=0007000000030000

I don't think he was surprised, he made it clear that he expected it. Having said that his words say he is reading, but his actions say he's not about to budge any time soon. The adjustments made while Sona was in PBE felt token, rather than actual "Yeah we hear you, here let's try it and see what happens." I don't think the personal attacks are necessary but I do feel things are getting lost in translation. As far as I know he's still more or less responding to threads.

RiotFearless8 votes

This is really inaccurate. I dropped off the feedback to get Sona in better shape for release, and while I was reading and testing for and against the feedback on PBE, I did poor job of letting people know they were being heard, even as I was experimenting with changes to address their feedback. I dropped the ball on letting people know they were heard, but I did not ignore anyone.

As I've said, one of the reasons I agreed to take on the Sona project is because I have a very thick skin and was totally ready to tank all the feedback, from the really educated, thoughtful stuff to the hate and venom people like Luner are going for. I still hope those people will at least give Sona a chance, but at the bare minimum, I'm doing my best now to be present here and let them know they've been heard.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

In regards to Feedback, mind if I make a suggestion?

Give Rioters a special button to indicate you "Read" a post. This will be useful for ALL future communication to really show people you read their feedbacks. This way people won't sit there not knowing whether their voice was heard or not. No more miscommunication, and no more bumping not knowing whether their thread was drowned out too fast or whether it was read and taken into consideration.

RiotFearless6 votes

Interesting idea, but I think our community deserves more than that. It's been very educational for me to see that pretty simple responses make people feel a lot better. The button could do that, but usage could be problematic. I know I'll personally be working hitting the level that I've come to understand people appreciate, even when I can't make substantial comments. This is also something I've already talked with in small conversations, but will be something that I try to pass on in general.

SlashXVI1 votes

If you care to listen to my oppinion on the new sona (I am from EUW and only using this account to post on US forums), I am actually quite happy with the way sona turned out. I feel really impactful in later teamfights and there was more than one situation where my teammates actually realized that it was sona who saved them just right now (opposed to before where you had all that stats but noone would relize they just survived due to the massive resistance bonus).
I only have a minor complain, which is that with q+powerchord AA (+q amplification) + eventual ADC hits you have a really high damage potential on level one and sonas early level poke is just a bit too high. I had situations in which I would take about 40% of the adcs max hp with one q poke.

So overall I am really happy about the rework. Sona feels more impactful and it is more clear when she is actually performing, but she might need a little tweak on her early game poke (not so much for the later stages of the game). Thanks for bringing us that rework!

Tiropat1 votes

If you set your language to English you can post on Boards beta (this) from anywhere.

Sunfield3 votes

Do you like misinformation? I do.

Luner Hunter2 votes

its not misinformation when it's what he said :/

Lord Graves III2 votes

Ahh, so you are one of that voiceless majority of mid-sona players?

EDIT: The whole idea of Sona's fantasy is supporting. Its why she exists. She is supposed to make her allies stronger with music. You actually took time to complain about her reduced dueling potential. I just don't get that.

Sona feels better to play alongside, I can promise you that. As a marksman player, I'd take new sona every damn time. The sonas I work with feel the same way.

Saltzhammer8 votes

This new update for Sona is horrible. I am in no way shape or form an expert. What I can say is that the Sona that I loved to play in Aram is not the same one I enjoyed in the past. This character is not as playable as is was before and is pretty much just dead to me. You guys took away a part of the game I enjoyed. This character effectively became one of the many characters in the game people wont play anymore. That is only my opinion.

Crove7 votes

That is a little extreme. She is fine. People don't like change.

I think she's really powerful... people complain about her being too squishy... then build her tankier. I can definitely feel her impact much more than before. And saying you don't want o play LoL because they changed 1 champion out of 119 (soon to be 120) is a little intense. She's fun try to embrace the change and you'll probably like it... and if not there are over 100 other characters that you can play with :)

Luner Hunter4 votes

sure sure and why not gut someone like say... ziggs damage to nothing make him cast all his ablities at a pointblank range in comparison and make him have to tank the other team to try to cast anything? lets not mention that your "1 in 120" argument if flawed as they have been nerfing ALL the supports and there are less than 20 support champions >.> so if i want to support and none of the support champions are worth a fuck who else do i chose? that feeds into the AP midlaners goning bot to support issue where ppl are crying about morgana because she can CC and do dmg >.> do you people even think before posting?

Ririx5 votes

I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about it. I played the reworked Sona most of yesterday. While I absolutely hate that her auras are much smaller, I do like the new shield on her W and how her E works now. It actually isn't COMPLETELY terrible. I find it to be rather nice. I've been able to make some great plays with my team and the heal sustain actually seems better but the mana costs and cooldowns are crap. I'm literally a useless floating target for 10-12 seconds early game. Doubling her cooldown rate was unfair and unnecessary. Janna's tornado is more game changing than 1 Q or W from Sona but yet... At max CDR Janna's Q is around 4 seconds while Sona's Q / W / E sit at around 6 seconds and only hit 1 target (damage/heal on Q/W). Rushing CDR and Mana regen items is so much of a must that you can't even focus on getting health to live longer or anything. It it really conflicting and I haven't really found a solid build for her yet. I hope they'll loser the cooldowns (even if only a few seconds) soon.

I do not like how they lessened her damage and I'm completely pissed that they half-assed her skins. Seriously, I bought Silent Night Sona for a reason - Great detail, completely effing cute and holiday themed. I own Muse, SIlent Night, and Pentakill Sona. The reworked skins (with the exception of maybe Muse) have half or less than half of the detail of the original skins and that is unacceptable to me.

Anyway, if you would like to see my match history: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/50978517

ShadowGlaive2132 votes

I agree about the textures. I like the new model and the new VFX but I dislike the new textures. Guqin Sona was my favorite skin and they got rid of the shimmer on her skirt that made it look like silk =/ and Classic and Muse lost the details on her instrument that I really liked, so now it looks more plastic vs metal =X As for the kit it can function in some cases but it's definitely not Sona.

crowe jr3 votes

What really disappoints me is that her poke potential has been greatly reduced on top of her being squishy. Her poke damage is really sad

Please buff her damage because I'd rather have her do more damage personally than giving her some defenses. I dont want sona to become another soraka, where she only has some okay healing.

Lemmie2 votes

I am in no way an expert on the new Sona, and haven't had the opportunity to play her enough, but so far the games I have played have been all wins, three games in total. While her damage really does kinda suck early game and in the poke, I like how she feels when it comes to the later game grouping. With mobis and/or the need speed boost, I feel I can get from target to target without much trouble. She feels more active while playing her and despite it still sort of being a button spam, I feel it is less so. If anything is touched, I would hope it would be the numbers on the spells and not the cooldowns, you should have to make that choice in your rotation of spells and not have everything up on demand, but this is just my opinion.

ShadowGlaive2132 votes

I tried playing around with her first in a custom with a bunch of bots as company before trying her in pvp. I played my first 4 pvp games as new Sona yesterday (went solo queue). I went 3-1 win-lose, granted they were all team builder where people are encouraged to try new things so it was highly likely no one was playing the best they had to offer. I also felt my adc was better than the opposing adc for all of the games.

I don't like the new Sona. I liked Sona because she could use a lot more of the space she is given. I enjoy playing ranged champs like Lux. I don't like playing bruisers. I like ranged champs because I like having more room to work with, but the decrease in Sona's range significantly decreased the amount of room I could work with. I noticed in lane I couldn't go to a lot of the positions I wanted because I'd be out of range to tag my adc in case there was a sudden need to (i.e. sudden engage). For the first time as a support I felt leashed, and it felt really REALLY bad.

I could really feel the longer cooldowns too whenever a skirmish broke out because I would want to renew benefits but couldn't and it turned into an aa match with my puny support aa, and the fact that cooldowns are staggered makes it a lot harder than before to continuously chord properly. There wasn't a single skirmish during laning that both my adc and I were alive by the end of it iirc, and if I did survive the skirmish I'd have less than 100hp pretty much every time, while the surviving member on the other side would still be at least half health. I also felt less pokey because my positioning was so heavily constricted by that of my adc's as a result of the range decrease.

While the new Sona encourages more and better teamwork, I felt a lot of my independence was taken away. Yes, a support is supposed to help their team, but that doesn't mean we have to be completely dependent on them. We can go clear wards or wander around placing them and be reasonably safe. But the balance in Sona's kit factors in so many things that have to do with her allies making use of them she really can't do anything on her own, where as Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Nami, can all use their abilities on themselves for huge benefits and be independent. Old Sona was okay because her auras were persistent, but alone new Sona's benefits don't last long enough for her to be alone. If old Sona was being chased she could give herself a persistent speed boost and spam e chords to kite. If new Sona is being chased as soon as her speed boost wears out she's pretty much dead since her long cds don't allow her to chord kite or renew her boost frequently enough to get her out.

Also, for one of my games a teammate was chasing after an enemy and I was on the other side of the tree line. I felt really sad and useless when before I could help them by speed boosting them over the tree line, but now because of the range decrease I couldn't do anything to help.

While new Sona can still function and win games, I do feel the rework was a nerf, and I do feel this new Sona is not Sona, and conceptually she's been tarnished at the very least.

Since a sample size of 4 isn't large enough I will be playing more. I will try to get some games outside of team builder as well, but she is definitely no longer my go-to support and I will highly likely be picking up a new support in her place. =[

Pika3101 votes

I hear Braum and Thresh are pretty good, they're probably worth giving a try. After that, Morgana and Nami are cute in their own way, while still being viable. Eye-candy can only take you so far after all.

ShadowGlaive2131 votes

As I said I like range. Braum and Thresh get straight into the middle of the fight =/ I haven't played Morg outside of aram but I did enjoy her there. I've been trying to pick up Nami even before the Sona rework, but can't seem to land the bubbles >.< I was going to look into Janna since she's free this week. I've also played around with Karma a bit in the past and enjoyed her, though I don't like how she doesn't have any hard cc.

Luner Hunter1 votes

rito how much damage did this rework do to sona? Tons Of Damage |

Killrazor1 votes

i played against the new sona, and she wrecked us. You don't need to stay beside your ADC all the time. Sometimes it is up to your teammates to come to you to get the buffs from the auras.

I like the new sona :)

Hellioning5 votes

I guess so, but then you run into the 'my allies dictate how well I do' problem, which Riot doesn't like, given their whole thing on 'mastery'

Tiropat2 votes

Isn't that what Braum does? He has really good utility but its better if your team knows how to use it.

Pika3102 votes

Except Braum is also suffocatingly powerful. If your team knows how to play with him, your odds of winning are drastically improved. Playing to your Sona's strength will only net a very minor increase in damage and none of the CC that Concussive Blows provides. At the same time, Braum can easily front-line and absorb a significantly larger amount of damage thanks to Unbreakable.

Tiropat1 votes

sona can provide lots of team survivability she has half of summoner 3 damage reduction on a 11 second CD or a better slow on the same

Pika3102 votes

That's nice and all, but we were discussing team interaction and not her independent tools and actions. Besides, Diminuendo and Tempo didn't get DIRECTLY affected by the changes, they already existed before and still THEORETICALLY perform the same job.

Back on topic, Thresh is another highly team-interactive support and even he stands next to Braum as well. Thresh's lantern is a powerful displacement tool that every player at all points of the game needs to be aware of. Useful for engaging, disengaging, escapes, repositioning, etc., it's a unique ability that no other champion in the game comes close to matching in utility. Thresh and his team must always keep its uses in-mind.

Tiropat1 votes

I think that its the current meta that is holding sona back more than anything else. Because she has such amazing team auras a setup like Sona Maokai Akali MasterYi Jinx would work really well simply because sona on top of mao defensive aura with her speed boots would just reset for days.

Mialee2 votes

The fact you lost against a certain champion does not mean much tbh you might as well have lost against old sona also

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